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    Hikkei

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    Milarepa
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    Re: Hikkei

    Post by Milarepa on Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:55 pm

    good post Yuki! You're freind form Hungary, where did they recieve the Hikkei from? How was it gave to them, in what way? When was there copy made, and what way was it made?

    I personally doubt the Hikkei for many reasons, but that's just me.

    warmest wishes
    Wayne


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    Rlei_ki
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    Re: Hikkei

    Post by Rlei_ki on Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:58 pm

    yuki wrote: BUT! There is an important section, where it differs from the formers. In the answer of the question 'How does Usui Reiki Ryoho work?' the last sentence 'One day, there will be a scientific explanation.' is completely missing.

    Hi Yuki,


    All translations of the various Reiki-related documents include a degree of paraphrasing in an attempt to convey meaning which can actually get lost in literal word-for-word translation. And in some cases,where available from other sources, additional details, may occasionally be included for clarification.

    For your interest, here is the Japanese text for the 'How does Usui Reiki Ryoho work?' Q & A:

    問 臼井霊気療法は如何なる理由で癒りますか。

    答 私はこの療法を天下何人より伝授されたのでもなければ、又治療の霊能を得んがために研究したのでもありません。断食中に大気に触れて不可思議に霊感し、治病の霊能を得たことを偶然自覚したのでありますから、肇祖の私にも確然と説明を申上げるに苦しみます学者も識者も熱心に研究して居りますが、現代の科学に頼って断定することは困難にせよ科学と一致する時代の来ることは当然であります。

    yuki wrote:
    Another difference can be found in 'What does the government think?'


    Problems:

    Matsushita vs. Omamatsu. ...


    here is the relevant portion of the Japanese Text:

    問 政府は何と見て居りますか。

    答 大正十一年二月六日帝国議会衆議院予算分科会に於て代議士松下禎二医学博士曰く、

    The highlighted portion of text speaks of “representative 松下(Matsushita) 禎二(Teiji or Teizi?)”


    At least it Probably does.

    Unless you are very fluent in Japanese, there is always opportunity for error in translating Japanese names (whether peoples names or place names), due to the fact that a particular name can be written using several different sets of kanji characters

    and also, most sets of kanji used in writing names can also be translated in different ways - not just meaning-wise, but sound wise also.

    And on occasion, even native Japanese speakers have problems.

    A good example of this occurs in the translation of the Japanese article:

    "A Quest for the Origin of Reiki Healing", by Shiomi Takai, which was translated for AETW.org by three people fluent in Japanese (Two of them have always lived in Japan)

    in the text of the article there is a passage which mentions an organisation given in kanji-to-romaji (I.e western alphabet) translation as: "Daihonkyo",

    “From the Meiji era to the early part of the Showa era, while the established religions were losing power, many new spiritual leaders appeared on the scene.
    Amongst them were, Tennen Kuwahara, and Morihei Tanaka, the founder of Taireido. These especially are said to have had 'spiritual skill' / 'spiritual power' ('reijutsu') and attracted many followers. Onisaburo Deiguchi of Daihonkyo and Mokichi Okada, the founder of Sekaikyuseikyo are also seen as 'great lights' who shone around that time. “


    The three kanji characters in the original Japanese can indeed be read as Diahonkyo, however they can also be read as Oomotokyo (which is actually the name of the organisation referenced.) However, it seems that in this instance none of the three translators were aware of the Oomotokyo, hence Diahonkyo appearing in the English text.

    .
    .
    .
    .




    [ I picked up on this translation issue simply because I knew of the Oomoto kyo, however I let it stand as it acts as one of the many hidden clues scattered throughout the site for certain personal students – though several years on, I'm still for some of them to pick up on the clues....]


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    yuki
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    Re: Hikkei

    Post by yuki on Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:28 am

    Milarepa wrote:good post Yuki!
    Thanks! Smile

    Milarepa wrote:You're freind form Hungary, where did they recieve the Hikkei from? How was it gave to them, in what way? When was there copy made, and what way was it made?


    Well, these are the questions that I dare not ask them, since, they have to keep the sources and the whole connection in secret.

    (And indeed, sometimes they are very arrogant and elitist. Btw, there is no doubt that they have learned methods, that I know solely from the net. I could join them, but I won't do that, for I don't like secrecy and elitism.)

    Milarepa wrote:I personally doubt the Hikkei for many reasons, but that's just me.


    As we know, the Hikkei is an edited text and it was compiled by the Gakkai. Fodor has told about the samurai tradition in the teaching of the Gakkai. Hence, for me, the Gakkai is just another special reiki group, one of the hundreds, so I also doubt about them.
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    yuki
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    Re: Hikkei

    Post by yuki on Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:52 am

    Wow! Thanks for the exhaustive explanation, James!

    Rlei_ki wrote:

    All translations of the various Reiki-related documents include a degree of paraphrasing in an attempt to convey meaning which can actually get lost in literal word-for-word translation. And in some cases,where available from other sources, additional details, may occasionally be included for clarification.

    Yes, I agree with that. Even the difference of the names may be caused by the different translations. However, I was told that, that translation was made by an expert of the Japanese language of the 1920's. But, an expert of a language is not necessarily an expert of a healing system.

    Rlei_ki wrote:
    A good example of this occurs in the translation of the Japanese article:

    "A Quest for the Origin of Reiki Healing", by Shiomi Takai, which was translated for AETW.org by three people fluent in Japanese (Two of them have always lived in Japan)

    Thanks for your useful response and comment! Getting clearer Smile

    yuki
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    Milarepa
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    Re: Hikkei

    Post by Milarepa on Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:23 am

    yuki wrote:Wow! Thanks for the exhaustive explanation, James!

    Rlei_ki wrote:

    All translations of the various Reiki-related documents include a degree of paraphrasing in an attempt to convey meaning which can actually get lost in literal word-for-word translation. And in some cases,where available from other sources, additional details, may occasionally be included for clarification.

    Yes, I agree with that. Even the difference of the names may be caused by the different translations. However, I was told that, that translation was made by an expert of the Japanese language of the 1920's. But, an expert of a language is not necessarily an expert of a healing system.


    whoever is saying this is then claiming to have a copy of the hikkei pre-dating Koyami's 1970's Gakkai one.

    How can i put this. It's claimed (by someone who said they have/had it) that the 1970's Gakkai Koyami version is actually wrote in new Kanji, post 1946 kanji. save for the grammer is wrote in the old way. though i don't understand what that means.

    These two claims don't match up. It's either two Hikkei, or well, hehe. Though it's one thing making a claim bout something, cause i can do that later on, Smile.


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    yuki
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    Re: Hikkei

    Post by yuki on Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:51 am

    Milarepa wrote:

    How can i put this. It's claimed (by someone who said they have/had it) that the 1970's Gakkai Koyami version is actually wrote in new Kanji, post 1946 kanji. save for the grammer is wrote in the old way. though i don't understand what that means.

    These two claims don't match up. It's either two Hikkei, or well, hehe. Though it's one thing making a claim bout something, cause i can do that later on, Smile.

    Clever argument! It may be a Hikkei version before 70', or a new and modified edition. We don't know yet. Sad
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    Rlei_ki
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    Re: Hikkei

    Post by Rlei_ki on Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:36 pm

    Milarepa wrote:

    whoever is saying this is then claiming to have a copy of the hikkei pre-dating Koyami's 1970's Gakkai one.

    How can i put this. It's claimed (by someone who said they have/had it) that the 1970's Gakkai Koyami version is actually wrote in new Kanji, post 1946 kanji. save for the grammer is wrote in the old way. though i don't understand what that means.

    These two claims don't match up. It's either two Hikkei, or well, hehe. Though it's one thing making a claim bout something, cause i can do that later on, Smile.


    [this is part of a post I've just added to the Did Hawayo Takata feel the need to lie about Reiki history thread, however I felt it was directly relevant here also]

    I agree, there are certain 'issues' re the 'Hikkei' itself.

    Some people seem to think that the booklet in general circulation is a copy of an original document, given by Usui-sensei to his students.

    This, we can be certain, is not the case. Why? Because (as Wayne mentions) it is written using the modern simplified form of writing system, which came into use 20 years after Usui-sensei's passing.(After WWII, there was a reform of the Japanese writing system and many of the kanji were simplified).

    Now, on becoming aware of this fact, it seems many folks believe that the booklet in general circulation must simply be a tranliterated (from 'old form' to 'new form') version of an original document, given by Usui-sensei to his students. (No modification of the meaning/phrasing of the text, just a case of the same words written down in a simplified 'script')

    Another belief is that the Hikkei was compiled in the 1970's by Kimiko Koyama, sixth kaicho (president / chairman) of the Usui Reiki Ryoho Gakkai – that she brought together (and transliterated) elements* from previously separate sources, to create the unified document we now know as the Hikkei,



    Oh, and yet another theory is that it was Doi himself who was responsible for creating the whole thing - with the exception of the Meiji poetry !
    ["Conspiracy theory Rules O.K." Laughing ]




    ____________
    *[ I.e, the The Gokai, the “Usui Q&A ', the Meiji poetry, the Treatment Guidelines]


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