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    vijaybali
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    veg and non-veg

    Post by vijaybali on Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:12 pm

    hai friends,






    Food at a subtle level, it too is made up of the sattva, raja and tama components.
    The proportions of these subtle components vary depending on the type of food.
    Sattva stands for purity and knowledge while tama denotes ignorance and inertia.
    Anything that has a higher sattva component assists our spiritual journey and anything that is tama predominant has a tendency to diminish or obstruct our spiritual practice.

    Vegetarian food has more sattvic qualities than Non-vegetarian food while Non-vegetarian food has more Tamasic qualities than Vegetarian food.

    The reason for the increased tama in non-vegetarian food is because of the extent of suffering of the animal, when it is being killed.
    Also the thoughts of anger and revenge and pain in the animal when being killed are far more pronounced as compared to a plant which has a rudimentary mind and intellect.
    This is the main reason in the increased tama component.
    While due to the higher sattvikta in fruits they are offered to God is ritualistic worship.

    When tama predominant food is ingested on a regular basis the body is burdened with an excess of the tama component.
    A rise in tama component in a person has many negative side-effects.
    This tama component can only disintegrate if one is regularly doing spiritual practice.
    However since most people do not do spiritual practice this tama component accumulates in a person’s body, mind and intellect.

    thanks and love
    vj
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    Colin
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Colin on Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:31 pm

    Hi VJ

    The picture of the banana, with its layer of Divine Consciousness reminded me of this video, which tries to prove the existence of God, by examining a banana:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sanplNTr6c

    Shocked Laughing

    Seriously though, does the fact that we are essentially raw meat mean that we have balls of negative energy because of our blood, give out subtle negative smells because of unmanifest energy and emanante snake-like frequencies? Suspect

    Ai to Hikari
    Colin


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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Shakti ~ Rising on Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:56 pm

    why am I doing wafting about in that banana? ahahah

    I don't care what 'negative' energy may emanate from 'dead' meat, cook it up with some onions and gravy and I'm gonna eat it!!

    cows eat lovely fresh grass all day long then we eat the cow......doesn't that mean we are eating concentrated 'positive' energy condensed in the cows flesh??

    Of course different animals are fed other products these days etc.... but at the end of the day we live in a world constantly bombarded by pollutions of varying kinds......light, sound, chemical, cosmic..... our material bodies have to be able to adapt to pollutants.....otherwise the human race will cease to exist....

    we may be what we eat, but what we eat in NO way effects our ability to offer spiritual healing... I've trained under and been given healing by some people who are strict veggies....one healing course I did, a specific requirement of the course was that one HAD to be a meat eater!! Very Happy

    I'm a meat eater an alcohol lover and a life enjoyer!!
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    veg and non-veg

    Post by vijaybali on Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:19 pm

    hai

    I am watching

    when my terms come i will give anwser...

    thanks and love
    vj
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Shakti ~ Rising on Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:23 pm

    do you eat meat VJ??
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    Milarepa
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Milarepa on Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:01 am

    I eat meat again. That's cause folks told me we shouldn't in spirituality. lol! .


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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by thehungrycaterpillar on Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:37 am

    Interesting topic guys!!!!!

    Whatever it is I love the graphics and I am not new to the concept.
    I am a non-vegetarian myself but have come across the theory at different times. My attitude is that it may be true?

    My own take on this is, I don't like the way the animals are treated be it for just eggs or milk.. the inhuman treatment is going to make the animals sad and traumatized. What kind of nourishing products can we hope to get out of such animals??????
    ....and when we eat the products , how is it going to affect us?
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Milarepa on Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:56 am

    didn't seem to do the Dalai Lama any harm. Or anyone else living int he foothills of the himalyas...

    It might boil down to how one goes about it. And/or, their perseption, which is interlinked of course.


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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by thehungrycaterpillar on Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:05 am

    May be I need to collect a list of Vegetarian leaders and Non-vegetarian leaders, I am curious now......

    meat eating Dalai Lama??? i am shocked.
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Milarepa on Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:07 am

    Buddha has said it's to be commended to be vegetarian. He never forced his students too though. He said there were certain conditions in which meat was 'pure meat'.

    Tibeteans, by virtue of where they live, can't rely on crops all year round solely. Dalai Lama had to return to eating meat as he contracted hepatitis b.

    There's also a story i read of an aikido instructor, whom would take his family to Mcdonalds. It was asked why he'd do such a thing, being who he is, he replied it's the manner in which you eat it that counts.

    There's abosuletely no point on abstaning from meat, on the grounds peers may expect it. Or it's meant to 'go with the package'. Dalai Lama said much the same.

    A freind of mine whom is a veggie, is so because he loves animals. I've pointed out before, why drive in a car up a motorway? As this kills insects. Why also, kills billions of germs every day, cleaning the house? I kinda see things pretty much in black & white, with regard to personal beleifs. If someone says life is precious, and includes animals, that should, to me, include my other examples.

    Jains have more the right idea. I think some think that being a veggie make them more spiruitual. Which is wrong of course.

    I was veggie for 10 years myself. I kill countless more lifeforms cleaning the toilet, than i would ever do consuming meat, Smile.


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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by chi_solas on Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:18 am

    Plants live of the earth as we do.
    I grew up almost vegetarian because
    we could not afford meat. I do under
    stand the concept that some animals
    do not live a happy life but then large
    farming corporations force feed their
    crops and do not allow them the joy of
    a natural life. Today I can afford to
    buy meat but have chosen to go back to
    being almost a vegetarian. pig

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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Milarepa on Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:20 am

    you're still using pork in your posts though! lol!


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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by chi_solas on Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:44 am

    Milarepa wrote:you're still using pork in your posts though! lol!

    I gave up my favorite bacon some years ago.
    I will eat fish and chicken. I saw a vegan
    documentary of how a chicken's life is ended
    and it was not the most pleasant thing to watch.


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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Colin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:23 am

    Interestingly, Hawayo Takata, has possibly inconsistent advice when it comes to diet - but it could be interpreted that she advocates vegetarianism for Reiki practitioners and suggests meat and liquor are also OK in moderation for clients.

    In her "essay on the Art of Healing" she says:
    "In the Reiki health treatments, we are vegetarian and eat all kinds of fruits in season."

    In a Chicago newspaper article from 1974 (Reiki - Japanese method of healing could spark public interest similar to Chinese acupuncture) it says:
    "When Mrs Takata, or those trained by her heal, they give advice on diet. It is simple and sensible: never eat when worried or upset and choose fruits and vegetables. However, everything is allowed, including meat and liquors. Moderation in all is the rule. 'We must have health and happiness in this world so we can fulfil the purpose for which we came. Good sense and Reiki energy make this possible,' assures Mrs Takata."

    Relating to Waynes' story about the Aikido master who takes his family to MacDonalds, saying that it is how you eat that matters, Mrs Takata says:
    "...never eat when you are worried. Go to the table only when you're in a pleasant mood."

    So, it looks like it is OK to eat meat occasionally as long as you are happy doing it!
    Smile

    Ai to Hikari
    Colin


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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Milarepa on Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:29 am

    Colin wrote:Interestingly, Hawayo Takata, has possibly inconsistent advice when it comes to diet - but it could be interpreted that she advocates vegetarianism for Reiki practitioners and suggests meat and liquor are also OK in moderation for clients.

    In her "essay on the Art of Healing" she says:
    "In the Reiki health treatments, we are vegetarian and eat all kinds of fruits in season."

    In a Chicago newspaper article from 1974...

    Dear God! Are you trying to suggest that she's showing a human trait of changing understanding over time! Blasphemy! Laughing


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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by vijaybali on Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:48 pm

    dear Shakti ~ Rising,

    what a say, Nobody in the world now vegeterian you will surprised and ask me why ,

    there lot of reason but i give one of them that is medicine and all or most of medicine has non-veg, which we are eating due to that very rare to find veg person.


    my motive see postive and negative of both and after that we take decision which is good for us choice according own way.

    If i start indian way we taught from child hood non-veg is not good. So i supported it and very soon i will show why..... and if you have anything which prove non-veg good than put there it help all.

    here i say i am non-veg but supported veg food

    thanks and love
    vj
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by vijaybali on Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:37 pm

    dear Milarepa

    didn't seem to do the Dalai Lama any harm. Or anyone else living int he foothills of the himalyas...

    It might boil down to how one goes about it. And/or, their perseption, which is interlinked of course.[/quote][i]



    pls not mind.

    in india there is two type of saint one is vesnav and another is ghori saints difference in both, one believe in veg postive power and another non-veg (working on black magic) but both are moving to knew who i am..

    reiki and lot of spirtiual energy is postive energy and black magic lot more is negative energy but both are capable to achieve goal by own way.

    i read in india, i found those who fellow the veg food got more energy than non-veg.


    when we killed someone who has soul and curse of that animal create the negativness and brain is capable to keep all memory ( may be animals) . So when eat such food definately the effect of negativeness come may be any form but not feel now it can be anyform.


    Now come to great saint dalai lama no dought he is great but i feel he can go more than this where now if he follow the path of veg even we knew once body died it become nothing mean it postiveness gone ( soul gone ) but one soul gone body start giving bad smell that reason we buried or burn why not we keep it. or why it give bad smell and we knew bad smell is part of negativness. our ancesestor is great they knew all this so that reason they take decision to do fast to control this negativness which come by body.

    So now main point it is not matter what we eat but it matter for those who want 100% means those eat non-veg they will not get 100% of spiritual path. it is my opinion.

    So it is man to man what he want...


    very soon i will also show scientific view also.....

    Pls not mind english

    Thanks and regards
    vj
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Dragonfly on Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:55 am

    Vijay,

    As it was pointed out, the Dalai Lama eats meat because he has a medical condition that requires nutrients not easily available in plant-based diets alone.


    I have gone through periods of time in my life where I was a vegetarian or pesco-vegetarian. However, because of my metabolism and some chronic digestive issues, it is often difficult for me to sustain and feel satiated on veg food alone. When I was in India, I was happy to eat veg meals and didn't necessarily miss having meat but that was somewhat unusual for me.
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Reikijim on Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:49 pm

    vijaybali wrote:

    when we killed someone who has soul and curse of that animal create the negativness and brain is capable to keep all memory ( may be animals) . So when eat such food definately the effect of negativeness come may be any form but not feel now it can be anyform.



    Thanks and regards
    vj

    I have to ask...vj...A plant is a living entity....an animal is a living entity...why is an animal more important then a plant?...It takes life to support life...plant or animal...there is no difference. I do believe in the emotions being stored energetically in the body...If the animal in question is not diseased and has lived a mostly natural life, how different is this from a plant that we pick from a garden?

    Native North Americans, at one time , would thank the spirit of the animal for it`s body after they had ended it`s life on this plane...They were respectful and thankful of it`s sacrifice, thankful that the sacrifice of the animal allowed them to continue living...My problem with humanity, is that we are so far removed from the responsibility of what we take from the world that we have become gluttonous on all levels...Look at our environment. The planet gives us life, tries to recycle what we throw at it, and were so irresponsible as a species, that we bury it in garbage so quickly that it cannot keep up...The planet truly is "our mother"..this is the respect we give her...shameful...
    I have little guilt in eating meat, as i am always aware that another has sacrificed so that i can be sustained.
    I was raised on a farm...You see birth and death on a constant basis on a farm...one witnesses suffering through this experience...it has a different meaning for me, than it does for someone who walks into a grocery store and thinks meat to be the creation of the butcher shop....plants die when you pick them,they wither and rot and turn into dust....eventually, and so do animals...same process...If you are living and breathing and reading this...it`s because another living thing has made the sacrifice for you to be here in this moment...be it plant or animal...

    Smile RJ
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by chi_solas on Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:45 pm

    Reikijim wrote:
    vijaybali wrote:

    when we killed someone who has soul and curse of that animal create the negativness and brain is capable to keep all memory ( may be animals) . So when eat such food definately the effect of negativeness come may be any form but not feel now it can be anyform.



    Thanks and regards
    vj

    I have to ask...vj...A plant is a living entity....an animal is a living entity...why is an animal more important then a plant?...It takes life to support life...plant or animal...there is no difference. I do believe in the emotions being stored energetically in the body...If the animal in question is not diseased and has lived a mostly natural life, how different is this from a plant that we pick from a garden?

    Native North Americans, at one time , would thank the spirit of the animal for it`s body after they had ended it`s life on this plane...They were respectful and thankful of it`s sacrifice, thankful that the sacrifice of the animal allowed them to continue living...My problem with humanity, is that we are so far removed from the responsibility of what we take from the world that we have become gluttonous on all levels...Look at our environment. The planet gives us life, tries to recycle what we throw at it, and were so irresponsible as a species, that we bury it in garbage so quickly that it cannot keep up...The planet truly is "our mother"..this is the respect we give her...shameful...
    I have little guilt in eating meat, as i am always aware that another has sacrificed so that i can be sustained.
    I was raised on a farm...You see birth and death on a constant basis on a farm...one witnesses suffering through this experience...it has a different meaning for me, than it does for someone who walks into a grocery store and thinks meat to be the creation of the butcher shop....plants die when you pick them,they wither and rot and turn into dust....eventually, and so do animals...same process...If you are living and breathing and reading this...it`s because another living thing has made the sacrifice for you to be here in this moment...be it plant or animal...

    Smile RJ

    RJ I'm Impressed . Knowing how much you love animals
    I'd never had thought you'd eat meat. I do support your thoughts
    about plant life and how the earth recycles itself. I remember a
    famous show host talking out about killing animals for food. He was
    asked where did he think his leather shoes came from. pig

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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Reikijim on Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:43 pm

    chi_solas wrote:
    Reikijim wrote:
    vijaybali wrote:

    when we killed someone who has soul and curse of that animal create the negativness and brain is capable to keep all memory ( may be animals) . So when eat such food definately the effect of negativeness come may be any form but not feel now it can be anyform.



    Thanks and regards
    vj

    I have to ask...vj...A plant is a living entity....an animal is a living entity...why is an animal more important then a plant?...It takes life to support life...plant or animal...there is no difference. I do believe in the emotions being stored energetically in the body...If the animal in question is not diseased and has lived a mostly natural life, how different is this from a plant that we pick from a garden?

    Native North Americans, at one time , would thank the spirit of the animal for it`s body after they had ended it`s life on this plane...They were respectful and thankful of it`s sacrifice, thankful that the sacrifice of the animal allowed them to continue living...My problem with humanity, is that we are so far removed from the responsibility of what we take from the world that we have become gluttonous on all levels...Look at our environment. The planet gives us life, tries to recycle what we throw at it, and were so irresponsible as a species, that we bury it in garbage so quickly that it cannot keep up...The planet truly is "our mother"..this is the respect we give her...shameful...
    I have little guilt in eating meat, as i am always aware that another has sacrificed so that i can be sustained.
    I was raised on a farm...You see birth and death on a constant basis on a farm...one witnesses suffering through this experience...it has a different meaning for me, than it does for someone who walks into a grocery store and thinks meat to be the creation of the butcher shop....plants die when you pick them,they wither and rot and turn into dust....eventually, and so do animals...same process...If you are living and breathing and reading this...it`s because another living thing has made the sacrifice for you to be here in this moment...be it plant or animal...

    Smile RJ

    RJ I'm Impressed . Knowing how much you love animals
    I'd never had thought you'd eat meat. I do support your thoughts
    about plant life and how the earth recycles itself. I remember a
    famous show host talking out about killing animals for food. He was
    asked where did he think his leather shoes came from. pig

    Hi Bridget,

    lol...yeah I`ve met people like that too...

    You`re right in the fact that I love being with animals... I am an animal too, come to think of it, my brain is just a little bigger than my other animal friends. I try to connect with them in my free time....wild animals that is...and no, i do not hunt, I have not done so for the last 30 years, because i do not have to. I love plants/flowers too...I eat those also...plants are alive/animals are alive...I eat them both.
    When I eat meat i actually think of the animal that died so I can be sustained...giving thanks...sincerely. I have no guilt in this, as a Grizzly Bear or a Cougar, Tiger, Lion etc, would have no guilt in killing and eating me. We are the same in this...Some would say...."Well they have to do this". Well so do I... Going to the grocery store is just a way of getting someone else to do your killing for you, that`s all, separates you from what you truly take from the planet and others to sustain yourself. If you eat meat and dislike those who hunt, and kill their own food, be it plant or animal, you are not in touch with what you take from the planet...To me such is the same for those who eat vegetarian and dislike meat eaters. They have watched too much Walt Disney and have forgotten the true nature of this world, and their roots to nature. Everyone seems to think, regardless of what they say, that life is over when they leave their body, so all this fear and repulsion is generated towards death....To me it`s just another transition, like birth. Beginnings and endings travel together...attachment to things causes pain and suffering...Hmmm...sounds a slight bit Buddhist to me...A Buddhist will try and avoid stepping on an ant cause it`s a pointless death, disrespectful of life, reincarnation and all, but they eat plants, and some eat meat...with respect...Why can`t I?

    I`m not a city boy...I`m firmly rooted in my connection to our past, running in the woods, and sustaining myself through my NATURAL ENVIRONMENT, and the rest of the Universe for that matter. Hate me if you wish, for eating meat. I will throw compassion to another who is rooted in the delusional supremacy in vegetarianism. I`m more inclined to condemn the destruction of natural environments, than those who kill to sustain themselves, which includes all of us by the way, directly, or indirectly.

    Smile RJ

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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Bruce on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:42 pm

    Reikijim wrote:A plant is a living entity....an animal is a living entity...why is an animal more important then a plant?...It takes life to support life...plant or animal...there is no difference. I do believe in the emotions being stored energetically in the body...If the animal in question is not diseased and has lived a mostly natural life, how different is this from a plant that we pick from a garden?

    My post doesn't seem to have gone through the first time. I'm hoping this doesn't double-post.

    One of my (academic) teachers said that in theory, and sometimes in practice, we can subsist on plants without killing the plants. E.g., eating fruit from trees. I thought that was an interesting approach at explaining/justifying the difference.

    Bruce
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    veg and non-veg

    Post by vijaybali on Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:28 pm

    hai Reikijim,

    May i coming sir/madam
    tx


    I have to ask...vj...A plant is a living entity....an animal is a living entity...why is an animal more important then a plant?...It takes life to support life...plant or animal...there is no difference. I do believe in the emotions being stored energetically in the body...If the animal in question is not diseased and has lived a mostly natural life, how different is this from a plant that we pick from a garden?

    I am not agree with you because it is your perception. in my perception i like plant more than animals and i feel it different from man to man.

    this creteria is not right. our measurment is not base of our own vision it should be base on what is natural.

    I agree with bruce whatever he said.

    first question anwser.

    you tells us that plants also-have life. Then where lays the difference between vegetarian and non-vegetarian food?


    There are two kinds of life on earth, animate and inanimate. Men, beasts, birds, fish etc. are animate life while trees and other plants are inanimate life. Fruits ripen on the trees and then fall of by themselves, branches and leaves may be chopped off a tree and new one arises in their place. Many plants are propagated by their cuttings. Others can be transplanted. But all this is not possible with birds and animals. No limb of an animal can grow by itself after cutting. Man cannot produce animals like plants from earth.

    All the living beings are made up of five elements - the earth, water, fire, air and sky.
    All these five are present in man clearly and predominantly.
    Only four elements - earth, water, fire and air are predominant in animals.
    While in birds only three air, water and fire are predominant.
    Two elements - earth and fire - make up the insects.
    And only one element of water is predominant in fruits, leaves and vegetables etc. The rest four elements are in sleeping state in vegetables and plants. Therefore, eating vegetable foods consumes the minimum of factors.
    Saints and Sages do not pluck fruits from the trees, but they eat only those fruits which have fallen by themselves on ripening.
    Minimum damage to life is the basic criterion. There is no harm in obtaining fruits from trees


    your second question


    Plants are also having life, so killing plants should also be a sin. Why is veg food better than non-veg in terms of killing or committing "sin"?


    It is true that plants also have "life" and killing plants is also sin. So the best way to observe total non-violence is to take only those fruits which have naturally fallen from the trees or plants. In this way we are doing harm to no one. But everyone can not follow that vow. We have to take food in order to survive and sustain this body. It is a necessity of survival. But we need to take that path which is less sinful and does less harm to other jivas (living entities).

    Now there are two reasons to say that vegetarian food is having insignificant sin. Many of the plants like rice, wheat, etc., are having life only for one crop time. Once their yield is over, they die naturally, even if we don't cut them. So by cutting those plants (which have already died) we are doing less sin or no sin at all. In many other plants, like mango, coconut, etc., by plucking the fruit, we are not killing the plants, and so we are doing very minimal sin or no sin at all. So vegetarian food is less sinful. More over, it is inevitable for our survival, but non-vegetarian food is a luxury to us and we can survive even if we avoid that.

    Next we need to know why certain acts are sinful. Each and every life (whether plant, animal, or human) has come to this world because of their past Karma’s and they have to live to the maximum doing "sadhana" (spiritual practices), so that they can clear their karmic debts & may get a better birth next life or finally get "moksha" (liberation).
    By killing them, we are cutting short their opportunities to do "sadhana" towards their liberation (moksha). Thus it is much more sinful.


    At last i am not saying you start eating veg due to this article i am showing the path which help you in reiki or safe you creating more karma.....

    After it is man to man what he wants. God is very kind he never insist anybody. Only he make the new karma according to work.


    Thanks and love
    vj


    Last edited by vijaybali on Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:09 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    vijaybali
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    Member

    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by vijaybali on Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:42 pm

    hai Dragonfly

    As it was pointed out, the Dalai Lama eats meat because he has a medical condition that requires nutrients not easily available in plant-based diets alone.

    First i say sorry if my article hurt you.

    in the begining i mention it is very rare to find veg person because most of thing effect with non-veg and i mention example of medicine.


    It is karma who insist man to eat non-veg may be form of medicine here we cannot do anything but we can do one thing we help other to disolved those karma who made by neccessity like dalai lama facing but other hand he is disolving those karma by helping other So his this karma may be have less effect. But in our satuation if we eatting for taste is difference story.

    So my dear not feel bad i like to say the truth and truth is that whatever we do same we face. So now it is upto us how control that....

    God is nutural his criteria is same for everybody may be saint or normal human being...


    thanks and love
    vj
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    Milarepa
    Forum Founder
    Forum Founder

    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Milarepa on Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:05 pm

    I can't find the studies at the minute, but there were some done in which folks said plants emit high pitched sounds when cut. It was being suggested they were alomost 'squeal' type sounds.

    Here's something: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_a_plant_feel_pain_without_a_nervous_system .


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