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    veg and non-veg

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    chi_solas
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by chi_solas on Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:16 am

    Reikijim wrote:
    chi_solas wrote:
    Reikijim wrote:
    vijaybali wrote:

    when we killed someone who has soul and curse of that animal create the negativness and brain is capable to keep all memory ( may be animals) . So when eat such food definately the effect of negativeness come may be any form but not feel now it can be anyform.



    Thanks and regards
    vj

    I have to ask...vj...A plant is a living entity....an animal is a living entity...why is an animal more important then a plant?...It takes life to support life...plant or animal...there is no difference. I do believe in the emotions being stored energetically in the body...If the animal in question is not diseased and has lived a mostly natural life, how different is this from a plant that we pick from a garden?

    Native North Americans, at one time , would thank the spirit of the animal for it`s body after they had ended it`s life on this plane...They were respectful and thankful of it`s sacrifice, thankful that the sacrifice of the animal allowed them to continue living...My problem with humanity, is that we are so far removed from the responsibility of what we take from the world that we have become gluttonous on all levels...Look at our environment. The planet gives us life, tries to recycle what we throw at it, and were so irresponsible as a species, that we bury it in garbage so quickly that it cannot keep up...The planet truly is "our mother"..this is the respect we give her...shameful...
    I have little guilt in eating meat, as i am always aware that another has sacrificed so that i can be sustained.
    I was raised on a farm...You see birth and death on a constant basis on a farm...one witnesses suffering through this experience...it has a different meaning for me, than it does for someone who walks into a grocery store and thinks meat to be the creation of the butcher shop....plants die when you pick them,they wither and rot and turn into dust....eventually, and so do animals...same process...If you are living and breathing and reading this...it`s because another living thing has made the sacrifice for you to be here in this moment...be it plant or animal...

    Smile RJ

    RJ I'm Impressed . Knowing how much you love animals
    I'd never had thought you'd eat meat. I do support your thoughts
    about plant life and how the earth recycles itself. I remember a
    famous show host talking out about killing animals for food. He was
    asked where did he think his leather shoes came from. pig

    Hi Bridget,

    lol...yeah I`ve met people like that too...

    You`re right in the fact that I love being with animals... I am an animal too, come to think of it, my brain is just a little bigger than my other animal friends. I try to connect with them in my free time....wild animals that is...and no, i do not hunt, I have not done so for the last 30 years, because i do not have to. I love plants/flowers too...I eat those also...plants are alive/animals are alive...I eat them both.
    When I eat meat i actually think of the animal that died so I can be sustained...giving thanks...sincerely. I have no guilt in this, as a Grizzly Bear or a Cougar, Tiger, Lion etc, would have no guilt in killing and eating me. We are the same in this...Some would say...."Well they have to do this". Well so do I... Going to the grocery store is just a way of getting someone else to do your killing for you, that`s all, separates you from what you truly take from the planet and others to sustain yourself. If you eat meat and dislike those who hunt, and kill their own food, be it plant or animal, you are not in touch with what you take from the planet...To me such is the same for those who eat vegetarian and dislike meat eaters. They have watched too much Walt Disney and have forgotten the true nature of this world, and their roots to nature. Everyone seems to think, regardless of what they say, that life is over when they leave their body, so all this fear and repulsion is generated towards death....To me it`s just another transition, like birth. Beginnings and endings travel together...attachment to things causes pain and suffering...Hmmm...sounds a slight bit Buddhist to me...A Buddhist will try and avoid stepping on an ant cause it`s a pointless death, disrespectful of life, reincarnation and all, but they eat plants, and some eat meat...with respect...Why can`t I?

    I`m not a city boy...I`m firmly rooted in my connection to our past, running in the woods, and sustaining myself through my NATURAL ENVIRONMENT, and the rest of the Universe for that matter. Hate me if you wish, for eating meat. I will throw compassion to another who is rooted in the delusional supremacy in vegetarianism. I`m more inclined to condemn the destruction of natural environments, than those who kill to sustain themselves, which includes all of us by the way, directly, or indirectly.

    Smile RJ

    We all make choices in life that's
    different from our fellow wo/man.
    Folks who choose to eat meat have
    that right . We are not the judge
    of others only ourselves.

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    Reikijim
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Reikijim on Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:24 am

    Milarepa wrote:I can't find the studies at the minute, but there were some done in which folks said plants emit high pitched sounds when cut. It was being suggested they were alomost 'squeal' type sounds.

    Here's something: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_a_plant_feel_pain_without_a_nervous_system .


    Hi Wayne,

    I saw a documentary that was rather astounding. It was included in a movie called..."A Day In The Life Of Plants". So...What they did...There was a room with some plants lined up on a bench. Attached to the plants were some sensors that could measure their electrical output at whatever frequency, magnetic ,H field M field....I do not know...So...A person would walk through the room, The plants output would rise when the door opened to the room, they could identify that something was changing in their environment. A few people were paraded past the plants, one in the room at a time, a couple of times...All the output sensors on the various plants went up in amplitude...They would walk by the plants, and exit the room on the other side. After doing this a few times...I would suppose to develope a baseline reading of reaction....one of the people walked through and destroyed one of the plants in a violent manner, basically ripping it to shreds....All the readings reached a considerably higher reading than before. Next, the people were paraded through the room one at a time again. When the person who destroyed the plant, walked into the room, the plants reacted giving the same level of readings as when the guy was in the room destroying the plant initially. In other words, the test would lead on to consider that the plants could identify the person who was destructive in their environment...
    Just because a plant does not react in a way that you can perceive , regarding it`s demise, does not mean that its any less of a violent action to to the plant , then say a chicken or a cow, or a fish...It`s easier for us to accept, because a plant`s death does not look like the death of a mammal, something a little too close to our own vision of our mortality.

    Hi Bruce,

    I like what you have written...Alot of what we eat is the fruit of a living plant, the seeds designed to bring new plant life into the world. Also, alot of our plants die as soon as they have completed this process, having lived out their respective duty to promote their species existence on the planet. This is a less intrusive way of finding our sustenance...but it has dietary limitations that may not make us the healthiest of individuals.

    Smile RJ

    So folks...I guess I`m just trying to stir up conversation with my comments...That`s all, not trying to offend anyone...Just looking for something to talk about is all.
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Reikijim on Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:35 am

    vijaybali wrote:hai Reikijim,

    May i coming sir/madam
    tx


    I have to ask...vj...A plant is a living entity....an animal is a living entity...why is an animal more important then a plant?...It takes life to support life...plant or animal...there is no difference. I do believe in the emotions being stored energetically in the body...If the animal in question is not diseased and has lived a mostly natural life, how different is this from a plant that we pick from a garden?

    I am not agree with you because it is your perception. in my perception i like plant more than animals and i feel it different from man to man.

    this creteria is not right. our measurment is not base of our own vision it should be base on what is natural.

    I agree with bruce whatever he said.

    first question anwser.

    you tells us that plants also-have life. Then where lays the difference between vegetarian and non-vegetarian food?


    There are two kinds of life on earth, animate and inanimate. Men, beasts, birds, fish etc. are animate life while trees and other plants are inanimate life. Fruits ripen on the trees and then fall of by themselves, branches and leaves may be chopped off a tree and new one arises in their place. Many plants are propagated by their cuttings. Others can be transplanted. But all this is not possible with birds and animals. No limb of an animal can grow by itself after cutting. Man cannot produce animals like plants from earth.

    All the living beings are made up of five elements - the earth, water, fire, air and sky.
    All these five are present in man clearly and predominantly.
    Only four elements - earth, water, fire and air are predominant in animals.
    While in birds only three air, water and fire are predominant.
    Two elements - earth and fire - make up the insects.
    And only one element of water is predominant in fruits, leaves and vegetables etc. The rest four elements are in sleeping state in vegetables and plants. Therefore, eating vegetable foods consumes the minimum of factors.
    Saints and Sages do not pluck fruits from the trees, but they eat only those fruits which have fallen by themselves on ripening.
    Minimum damage to life is the basic criterion. There is no harm in obtaining fruits from trees


    your second question


    Plants are also having life, so killing plants should also be a sin. Why is veg food better than non-veg in terms of killing or committing "sin"?


    It is true that plants also have "life" and killing plants is also sin. So the best way to observe total non-violence is to take only those fruits which have naturally fallen from the trees or plants. In this way we are doing harm to no one. But everyone can not follow that vow. We have to take food in order to survive and sustain this body. It is a necessity of survival. But we need to take that path which is less sinful and does less harm to other jivas (living entities).

    Now there are two reasons to say that vegetarian food is having insignificant sin. Many of the plants like rice, wheat, etc., are having life only for one crop time. Once their yield is over, they die naturally, even if we don't cut them. So by cutting those plants (which have already died) we are doing less sin or no sin at all. In many other plants, like mango, coconut, etc., by plucking the fruit, we are not killing the plants, and so we are doing very minimal sin or no sin at all. So vegetarian food is less sinful. More over, it is inevitable for our survival, but non-vegetarian food is a luxury to us and we can survive even if we avoid that.

    Next we need to know why certain acts are sinful. Each and every life (whether plant, animal, or human) has come to this world because of their past Karma’s and they have to live to the maximum doing "sadhana" (spiritual practices), so that they can clear their karmic debts & may get a better birth next life or finally get "moksha" (liberation).
    By killing them, we are cutting short their opportunities to do "sadhana" towards their liberation (moksha). Thus it is much more sinful.


    At last i am not saying you start eating veg due to this article i am showing the path which help you in reiki or safe you creating more karma.....

    After it is man to man what he wants. God is very kind he never insist anybody. Only he make the new karma according to work.


    Thanks and love
    vj


    Hi vj

    It looks to me that your points are driven by religious beliefs that i have studied before and understand...I also respect these beliefs...as I should...But I do not believe what you believe, and am in no way a part of , or a follower of any organized religion...I interpret God in my own way, as I consider most organized religions to be imperfect creations of man. I`m a part of the natural world and not separated from it in any way, by any belief...i`m no better, or more important than any of the other life forms walking the planet... You mention that I`m karmically challenged if I eat meat...That`s your belief, not mine...

    with respect

    Smile RJ
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    chi_solas
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by chi_solas on Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:55 am

    Reikijim wrote:
    Milarepa wrote:I can't find the studies at the minute, but there were some done in which folks said plants emit high pitched sounds when cut. It was being suggested they were alomost 'squeal' type sounds.

    Here's something: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_a_plant_feel_pain_without_a_nervous_system .


    Hi Wayne,

    I saw a documentary that was rather astounding. It was included in a movie called..."A Day In The Life Of Plants". So...What they did...There was a room with some plants lined up on a bench. Attached to the plants were some sensors that could measure their electrical output at whatever frequency, magnetic ,H field M field....I do not know...So...A person would walk through the room, The plants output would rise when the door opened to the room, they could identify that something was changing in their environment. A few people were paraded past the plants, one in the room at a time, a couple of times...All the output sensors on the various plants went up in amplitude...They would walk by the plants, and exit the room on the other side. After doing this a few times...I would suppose to develope a baseline reading of reaction....one of the people walked through and destroyed one of the plants in a violent manner, basically ripping it to shreds....All the readings reached a considerably higher reading than before. Next, the people were paraded through the room one at a time again. When the person who destroyed the plant, walked into the room, the plants reacted giving the same level of readings as when the guy was in the room destroying the plant initially. In other words, the test would lead on to consider that the plants could identify the person who was destructive in their environment...
    Just because a plant does not react in a way that you can perceive , regarding it`s demise, does not mean that its any less of a violent action to to the plant , then say a chicken or a cow, or a fish...It`s easier for us to accept, because a plant`s death does not look like the death of a mammal, something a little too close to our own vision of our mortality.

    Hi Bruce,

    I like what you have written...Alot of what we eat is the fruit of a living plant, the seeds designed to bring new plant life into the world. Also, alot of our plants die as soon as they have completed this process, having lived out their respective duty to promote their species existence on the planet. This is a less intrusive way of finding our sustenance...but it has dietary limitations that may not make us the healthiest of individuals.

    Smile RJ

    So folks...I guess I`m just trying to stir up conversation with my comments...That`s all, not trying to offend anyone...Just looking for something to talk about is all.

    Similar test have been done on plants
    through music. If you can't be part of
    these tests you can just look around
    and see how the plants react to the sun's
    rays. What happens when a plant is over
    shadowed by tall buildings. What happens
    in the fall as the sun gets lower in the
    sky..........

    September 14, 2005Patient. Perseverance Drawing Strength From Plants Each season, grasses, flowers, shrubs, and trees let a part of themselves go in the form of seeds. Every one of those seeds is a point of life, containing the full potential of the parent. In the quest to find a rooting spot, they are buffeted by winds, parched by sun, and soaked by rain. And, as likely as not, they find cement or stone rather than fertile soil. Yet each season, the seeds find what purchase they can and put forth their roots, slowly creating more space for themselves and pushing ever upward, even when the new world they discover is harsh and unpredictable. Seedlings are small, but a single plant can widen a crack in a sidewalk or turn a rock to dust through nothing more than patient perseverance. In our lives, it is not uncommon to find ourselves cast into the wind, through our own choices or through fate. We are blown hither and thither by fear, uncertainty, and the influence of others. If we do find purchase, the obstacles we face may seem insurmountable and the challenges too much to bear. When this happens, look around you and note the seemingly desolate and inhospitable places in which plants have thrived. Given little choice, they set down their roots and hold on tightly, making the best of their situation. Then look at your own circumstances. Ask yourself if there is an unimagined source of strength that you can tap into. Look toward the future. Imagine a time in which you have widened a place for yourself and have flourished through your difficulties. The smallest things in life, like the tiny sprouts, given time and the will to forge on, can overcome any circumstance and break down huge barriers. It can be tempting, however, when faced with rough or uncertain odds, to give up, to change direction, or to choose the easiest path. But within you, there exists the same resolve and fortitude as displayed in these courageous plants. You, too, in finding yourself in a tight spot, can look ever upward, grabbing hold where you can, using your determination to reach toward new heights.

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    vijaybali
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by vijaybali on Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:43 am

    dear Reikijim
    tx

    tommrrow i will anwser universal way which is accept by everybody.

    Today is holiday( enjoying with football )

    thanks and regards for your way after all, every response is very very valuable whatever it is.

    keep it up
    vj
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    vijaybali
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    veg and non-veg

    Post by vijaybali on Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:26 pm

    hai i come back,


    with more strong way why veg is good...


    According to one finding, in India alone around 33 crores of birds and animals are killed every year and 50 lakh ton of flesh trade is carried on. This is enough to show that innumerable birds and animals are killed every year throughout the world. The question that arises is that, is it not possible for the human being to live healthy without eating non-vegetarian food? Is there no other food item left in this world, from which the human being can obtain all the required nutritious items? The fact is that the human being can get the less expensive, nutritious, disease curing and healthy food from vegetarian food without killing any living creature. This can be proved from the following facts, that vegetarian food contains sufficient amount of nutrition and more than non-vegetarian food. Besides the WHO report says that the human being contracts around 159 types of diseases by the consumption of non-vegetarian food. In comparison to non-vegetarian food the vegetarian food is totally harmless, beneficial and keeps us healthy. Killing the innocent birds and animals amounts to sin and crime. The poor speechless creatures are subjected to torture during the process of killing.

    Comparison of nutritious items present in non-vegetarian and non-vegetarian food:

    1. Protein : Gram 22%;Eggs 13.3%; Dals 25% Meat 18.5%; Soybean 43.2%; One kg soybean = 3 kg eggs / 2 kg meat or fish
    2. Carbohydrates : Gram 56%; Eggs O%; Dals 60%; Meat 0%; Soybean 22.9%
    3. Iron : Gram 9.8%; Eggs 2.1%; Dals 9.8%; Meat 2.5%; Soybean 11.5%;
    4. Phosphorous : Gram 0.25%; Eggs 0.22%; Dals 0.37%; Meat 0.15%; Soybean 0.68%
    5. Calories : Gram 334-372; Eggs 173; Dals 334-372; Meat 194; Soybean 432
    6. The other element is also moire in vegetarian when compared to non-vegetarian food.
    Non-vegetarian food contain more water:

    If a man does not get food he can survive for 60 days but without water he can live for a maximum 7 hours or more depending on the capacity of the person. The body requires water for the circulation of the blood and digestion process. The food, which we consume, contains maximum 60 per cent of water but fruits and vegetable contain 95 per cent of water. This makes them easily digestible and nutritious. An apple contains 84 per cent water and banana and grapes have 75.3 and 77.3 per cent water respectively. A pear contains 89.4 per cent water and cabbage and carrot contain 91.5 and 88.2 per cent water respectively. Similarly spinach and the green leafy vegetables and tomato contain 92.3 and 94.3 per cent water. This water is equivalent to the mineral water, which is found in the hilly areas, and mountains, which contains sulphur. Therefore vegetables are more beneficial and healthy when compared to non-vegetarian food.


    The body weight can increase with the consumption of meat and heavy food but those who want to remain healthy; disease free with good skin quality should consume water in sufficient amount. This can be obtained only from vegetarian food.

    Vegetarian food - complete food:

    Renowned scientist working at scientific and industrial research council in national science institution, Bangalore, Dr. Keti has reached at the conclusion that vegetarian food is a complete food. A proper mix of veg-i etarian food items and to maintain the nutrition at the time of cooking, eating boiled food, properly drying, sprouts and fermentation can increase the food quality. Milk and milk products have sufficient amount of protein, calcium and vitamins. The toned milk also contains 38 per cent of high protein. There is no nutritional element, which is present in meat and eggs and not available in milk. This is beneficial for the heart patients as well because it reduces the level of cholesterol in the blood; it is the antidote to several poisons.
    Fiber rich food:

    The vegetarian food is rich in fiber whereas the non-vegetarian food is deficient in this element. These fibers are helpful in providing minerals and vitamins to the body. These avoid constipation and related diseases like piles, hernia, appendicitis, hepatitis, divertica, and varicose veins. These fibers are important because they protect us from stones and heart diseases by mutual action of cholesterol and bilirubin.

    The vegetarian food is low in cholesterol:

    The meat and meat products contain very high levels of cholesterol. They deposit inside the arteries and block the way this obstructs the free flow of blood to the hart and hence heart problem is more among the non-vegetarians.
    Oiliness:

    The oiliness present in the vegetarian food is thin in quality, this is known as linolic acid, this is very important for the body and its deficiency causes paleness in the body. The body looses the capacity to fight out diseases.
    Vitamin B-12:

    According to the specialists, half liter of milk provides the required quantity of this vitamin. The best sources of B-12 are curds, Idli, Dosa, Dokhla, and Jalebi etc.

    Uric acid in non-vegetarian food is harmful:

    The uric acid present in non-vegetarian food causes joint pain in the age of 40-50 years. One pound of non-vegetarian food contains 14-16 gm of this element. The kidneys remove it from our body but the kidneys can remove only 7 gm of uric acid from the body everyday. As a result the kidneys fail to remove the uric acid completely from the body. Hence the kidneys are prone to several diseases.


    Continuee next.......
    PART I
    vj


    Last edited by vijaybali on Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    vijaybali
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    veg and non-veg

    Post by vijaybali on Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:29 pm

    hai

    Part two........


    The best source of vitamins is vegetarian food:

    Sprouted grains and cereals are rich in vitamin B. the amount of vitamin C increases ten times.
    Non-vegetarian food is very expensive:
    Feeding a hen with one kg of food gives 2 or 3 eggs. This is not very lucrative. Nowadays bird flu has raised suspicion in the peoples mind and India is not an exception.

    Vegetarian food gives good health and long life:

    In Abakhasiyansa state of Russia the average life span of a person is 100 years. These people are totally vegetarians. The Hunjas community of Kashmir is also vegetarians; therefore they are disease free and live long. In contrast, the Eskimos who eat only meat are prone to several diseases and they become inactive and dull at the age of 35 itself. During the Mahabharata people used to live up to 100 years and were at least 7 to 8 feet high. This was the result of eating vegetarian food.

    Non-vegetarian is not strength giving:

    The bulls, horses, buffaloes, rhinos and elephants are vegetarian and very strong, but jackal, leopards and lions are not that strong in spite of eating meat. The lion is always afraid of attacking an elephant hence it attacks from the back. Monkey and languor are vegetarians. Does any meat-eating animal have the capacity to jump like it? Dr. J.D.Krag, a strong supporter of vegetarian food says that he has found that several vegetarian Europeans are more intelligent, physically strong and good sportsmen when compared to non-vegetarians.

    Non-vegetarian is the cause for several diseases:

    According to the WHO report non-vegetarian food causes 159 different types of diseases. The most common diseases caused due to it are heart diseases, high blood pressure, kidney problem, gall bladder problems, wounds in arteries, eczema, paralysis, tuberculosis, constipation, pains, arthritis, hysteria etc. in comparison to it the vegetarian food is totally harm less, beneficial and cures diseases.

    Non-vegetarian food weakens the bones:

    American medical practitioner, Dr. A. Watchman and Dr. D.S.Bernstine have conducted a special study and declared their report. They said that non-vegetarian food weakens the bones gradually and they begin to deteriorate. The vegetarian people have strong bones when compared to non-vegetarians. In the non-vegetarians high quantity of alkaline and salts are excreted through urine, which causes deficiency of these salts in the blood. The blood fulfills the deficiency from the bones. The imbalance reduces the resistance power in the human beings.

    Wild nature due to consumption of non-vegetarian food:

    A famous scientist of Japan, Professor Venz has reached the conclusion on the basis of several experiments that non-vegetarian food plays a major role in raising the anger, anxiety, restlessness, hastiness, sexual desire ad criminal mentality. Therefore it is true that minute substances of food makes our mind and the mentality will be pious or passionate depending on the type of food we take.

    Vegetarian food can cure partial headache:

    Dr.Alexander Hugh who was a doctor at the metropolitan hospitals and gynecological and Pediatrician dispensary, Royal Hospital was suffering from partial headache. He was not satisfied with the medicines he was taking. He quit non-vegetarian food and starting taking milk and cottage cheese. As a result his illness was totally cured. Sacrificing meat also cured arthritis and other problems. He wrote a book titled food for all castes, in which he mentioned that the countries in which people eat very little or not eat meat have lesser chances to contract cancer. He also mentioned that he has knows many people who stopped eating non-vegetarian food and were cured of arthritis, insomnia, constipation and other diseases.

    Non-vegetarian food causes cancer and nervous diseases:

    According to Dr. Khar T Loder Braston non-vegetarian food does not give strength and instead makes us weak it produces nitrogen's, which functions like poison for the nerves.

    Dr. Arthur Underwood says that 85 per cent of the throat and intestines problems are due to non-vegetarian food. On contrary the vegetarian food contains substances, which can prevent cancer.

    The author of Diet and Food Dr. Hugh has differentiated between various strengthening and anxiety causing food products and said that vegetarian food is strengthening and non-vegetarian food causes anxiety.

    Food problems due to non-vegetarian food:

    In the developed countries 6 tones of food is given to the cattle in order to produce one ton of meat. American scientist Borg Storm says that the amount of food given to the animals in order to obtain meat is sufficient to subside the hunger of worlds 50 per cent population. When 8 kg of vegetable protein is fed to the animals they produce one kg of meat protein. In the same way one non-vegetarian calorie can be obtained after burning 7 calories of vegetables. This is simply the wastage of protein and calories.

    Britain's Bernard Vaidyaril says that it is beyond ethics to feed the animals with more than half the quantity of world's food grain in order to obtain meat at a time when millions of people are starving. The same food could be given to them to satisfy their hunger. In order to obtain meat sufficient for the survival of ten people, the land that is used for this purpose the same land can be used for cultivating peas, barley, millets and other food grains then 100 people can survive.

    Avoiding the consumption of meat can reduce hunger: if the rich western countries stop eating non-vegetarian food then the food problem of the world can be overcome. On one hand the animals are given 40 crores tons of food every year, so that the rich people can eat the meat of these animals and on the other hand due to the deficiency of food grains around 50 crores population of the poor countries dies due to starvation every year.


    May be this will accept by all

    Thanks and regards
    vj
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    Shakti ~ Rising
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Shakti ~ Rising on Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:06 am

    ooh some interesting reading in this thread but need to come back in later on, I need to go and clean the fridge before the hubby comes back with the shopping, wouldn't want to upset the peppers! What a Face
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    Shakti ~ Rising
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Shakti ~ Rising on Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:38 pm

    Reikijim wrote:
    vijaybali wrote:hai Reikijim,

    May i coming sir/madam
    tx


    I have to ask...vj...A plant is a living entity....an animal is a living entity...why is an animal more important then a plant?...It takes life to support life...plant or animal...there is no difference. I do believe in the emotions being stored energetically in the body...If the animal in question is not diseased and has lived a mostly natural life, how different is this from a plant that we pick from a garden?

    I am not agree with you because it is your perception. in my perception i like plant more than animals and i feel it different from man to man.

    this creteria is not right. our measurment is not base of our own vision it should be base on what is natural.

    I agree with bruce whatever he said.

    first question anwser.

    you tells us that plants also-have life. Then where lays the difference between vegetarian and non-vegetarian food?


    There are two kinds of life on earth, animate and inanimate. Men, beasts, birds, fish etc. are animate life while trees and other plants are inanimate life. Fruits ripen on the trees and then fall of by themselves, branches and leaves may be chopped off a tree and new one arises in their place. Many plants are propagated by their cuttings. Others can be transplanted. But all this is not possible with birds and animals. No limb of an animal can grow by itself after cutting. Man cannot produce animals like plants from earth.

    All the living beings are made up of five elements - the earth, water, fire, air and sky.
    All these five are present in man clearly and predominantly.
    Only four elements - earth, water, fire and air are predominant in animals.
    While in birds only three air, water and fire are predominant.
    Two elements - earth and fire - make up the insects.
    And only one element of water is predominant in fruits, leaves and vegetables etc. The rest four elements are in sleeping state in vegetables and plants. Therefore, eating vegetable foods consumes the minimum of factors.
    Saints and Sages do not pluck fruits from the trees, but they eat only those fruits which have fallen by themselves on ripening.
    Minimum damage to life is the basic criterion. There is no harm in obtaining fruits from trees


    your second question


    Plants are also having life, so killing plants should also be a sin. Why is veg food better than non-veg in terms of killing or committing "sin"?


    It is true that plants also have "life" and killing plants is also sin. So the best way to observe total non-violence is to take only those fruits which have naturally fallen from the trees or plants. In this way we are doing harm to no one. But everyone can not follow that vow. We have to take food in order to survive and sustain this body. It is a necessity of survival. But we need to take that path which is less sinful and does less harm to other jivas (living entities).

    Now there are two reasons to say that vegetarian food is having insignificant sin. Many of the plants like rice, wheat, etc., are having life only for one crop time. Once their yield is over, they die naturally, even if we don't cut them. So by cutting those plants (which have already died) we are doing less sin or no sin at all. In many other plants, like mango, coconut, etc., by plucking the fruit, we are not killing the plants, and so we are doing very minimal sin or no sin at all. So vegetarian food is less sinful. More over, it is inevitable for our survival, but non-vegetarian food is a luxury to us and we can survive even if we avoid that.

    Next we need to know why certain acts are sinful. Each and every life (whether plant, animal, or human) has come to this world because of their past Karma’s and they have to live to the maximum doing "sadhana" (spiritual practices), so that they can clear their karmic debts & may get a better birth next life or finally get "moksha" (liberation).
    By killing them, we are cutting short their opportunities to do "sadhana" towards their liberation (moksha). Thus it is much more sinful.


    At last i am not saying you start eating veg due to this article i am showing the path which help you in reiki or safe you creating more karma.....

    After it is man to man what he wants. God is very kind he never insist anybody. Only he make the new karma according to work.


    Thanks and love
    vj


    Hi vj

    It looks to me that your points are driven by religious beliefs that i have studied before and understand...I also respect these beliefs...as I should...But I do not believe what you believe, and am in no way a part of , or a follower of any organized religion...I interpret God in my own way, as I consider most organized religions to be imperfect creations of man. I`m a part of the natural world and not separated from it in any way, by any belief...i`m no better, or more important than any of the other life forms walking the planet... You mention that I`m karmically challenged if I eat meat...That`s your belief, not mine...

    with respect

    Smile RJ

    my beliefs tally with yours RJ...as you mentioned earlier Native Americans and other peoples have had a very close connection to the world around them and give thanks to the animals who offer themselves up as food for the day...

    I also give thanks for all the food I eat.......I also bless my food and I have a VERY strong connection to the plant world and commune with them in my own way, plants DO feel and respond to us, far more than people realise......
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    Shakti ~ Rising
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Shakti ~ Rising on Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:42 pm

    Vj, I can't find it now but I was reading that you said when the body dies it breaks down and starts to smell........well have you ever smelt rotting veg?? not exactly mouthwatering.. geek
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Shakti ~ Rising on Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:44 pm

    I have an nice quote by Mother Meera regarding the veg v non veg thing....I think I wrote it in a similar thread on the old Reiki board when I get a little time later I'll post it.....
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Milarepa on Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:53 pm

    Shakti ~ Rising wrote:Vj, I can't find it now but I was reading that you said when the body dies it breaks down and starts to smell........well have you ever smelt rotting veg?? not exactly mouthwatering.. geek

    Same as manure. Though i think that's an aquired taste. Err, i mean, smell. lol!


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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Shakti ~ Rising on Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:56 pm

    my husbands a farmer he comes home stinking of manure daily!
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Reikijim on Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:34 pm

    Hi vj,

    Thank you for sharing you`re views with us regarding the consumption of animal proteins. I have been in this discussion before...lots of facts and figures to support your position...Were you raised as a vegetarian?

    What do you think of "genetically enhanced" fruits and vegetables?

    What do you think would happen to the "rich countries", as you put it, if we quit consuming all meat tomorrow?

    Is there less disease and suffering in countries where the citizens eat mostly fruits and vegetables?

    Scientists and doctors claim stuff all the time...They back it up with facts and figures....and then change their minds and tell you something else, a short while, or a long while later. Sometimes the latest tests and studies stand the test of time...and other times, health breakthroughs turn out to be, fad, fantasy or a healthy story for an industry in particular.

    I really do not care for people projecting guilt my way because i consume meat a couple of times a week. It`s nice that you back up your position with other peoples conclusions, in regard to research, instead of throwing guilt and accusation.

    Let me ask you one question...In the wild, when one animal eats another animal....does their "karma" get messed up?

    By the way, comparing Eskimos, a people who live in one of the harshest climates in the world, to anyone else for that matter is a waste of time. Their lifestyle differs so drastically to anyone else, there is no one to compare them to...

    Many factors contribute to living a long life, food being in no small part, one of the factors. Yet culture, wealth, pollution, freedom of choice, opportunity, education, health care, being loved and loving others, being productive....being relaxed and calm...breathing slowly...I think these things i have mentioned, bare as much responsibility in the piloting of our longevity, as the food we eat...

    Karma...good and not so good, we have opportunities to repair and destroy...it`s our choice...

    Let me see...some have sin...others have Karmic debt...Hmmm....not the same, but somehow just a little bit similar...a controlling force of outcomes...and through this force, controls are realized, for what ever purpose.

    Religion...Man`s attempt at vocalizing subtle shades of our true compassionate nature...a very simple thing...or could have been...or should have been...



    farao RJ


    Last edited by Reikijim on Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Reikijim on Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:43 pm

    Hello Shakti,


    Shakti ~ Rising wrote:my husbands a farmer he comes home stinking of manure daily!

    Ah yes...I remember those days, as a young boy on the farm...not everything smelled of fresh clover. Embarassed
    A very beautiful place to be raised, and very good for the spirit. Lots of demanding physical work, lessons of life and death, awareness of the importance of change, changing weather, changing seasons, and growing food.

    Smile RJ
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by chi_solas on Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:04 pm

    45,000,000 that's the number given for Turkeys
    sold for thanksgiving dinners here in the US. scratch

    I could not get a number for Hams pig lucky little pig

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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Milarepa on Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:30 pm

    So, the suggestion is being shown that plants may feel pain, and may have some kind of nervous system/brain. Plants respond positively to certain things, like classical music. And respond negatively to music like death metal.

    Big fault i have coming up, i can't understand how some life is more important than others. I mean, it's suggested in widespread spirituality, to not eat meat. So it's more ok karmically to eat plants, which are also alive? How come the spiritual laws seem to place animals above plants? Our human reasoning easily explains why this is so, but God isn't human, so we gotta question outside our mindset, if possible.

    I can understand why 1000's of years ago it would be assumed it not so good to even indirectly contribute to pain of an animal, whilst the assumption was that plants don't feel it. Science now is helping suggest otherwise, so we've got a different vantage point now.

    Just what is it that makes Karma frown upon eating meat. If plants and animals can feel pain, only other thing is consciousness? If it's that, that's an even more greyer area. Some lifeforms can be suggested to be more conscious than others.

    I'd an interesting chat with a freind once. He asked me do i believe in Karma. I said i havn't looked at it properly. He couldn't beleive that, as he said i'm spiritual. Karma is an incredibly complex subject i told him, and i'm not gonna believe one phrase to sum it up, simply cause everyone else is. Why in spirituality is not eating meat encouraged? surely it's not on the basis folks like Lord buddha said so? Even he said to question him, and other teachers.

    On the medicial side. Meat eaters have higher testosterone, and this is associated with heart problems. It's said our intestines are smooth, like a herbivore. Carnivore are ridged. Our teeth aren't like a carnivore. I guess though, if we weren't meant to eat meat physically, then we wouldn't be able to eat meat?

    Take care
    Wayne


    _________________
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    vijaybali
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by vijaybali on Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:10 pm

    Dear Shakti ~ Rising"]

    Vj, I can't find it now but I was reading that you said when the body dies it breaks down and starts to smell........well have you ever smelt rotting veg?? not exactly mouthwatering.. geek[/quote]

    So you never stop pulling legs....... But i am sportman.

    If i start explaning this than again long long article and most of friends will feel sleepy and some of them start cleaning the fridge and shopping and somethem start to eating non-veg again and if i take my view i skip such long article.

    In short, i say just put veg and non-veg in open space and than you can find your anwser or otherway when any animals died on the way the smell spread long-2 way if any plant or vegitable died hardly any body smell it utill you not reached very closed to it.

    thanks and love

    vj
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    chi_solas
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by chi_solas on Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:35 am

    Milarepa wrote:So, the suggestion is being shown that plants may feel pain, and may have some kind of nervous system/brain. Plants respond positively to certain things, like classical music. And respond negatively to music like death metal.

    Big fault i have coming up, i can't understand how some life is more important than others. I mean, it's suggested in widespread spirituality, to not eat meat. So it's more ok karmically to eat plants, which are also alive? How come the spiritual laws seem to place animals above plants? Our human reasoning easily explains why this is so, but God isn't human, so we gotta question outside our mindset, if possible.

    I can understand why 1000's of years ago it would be assumed it not so good to even indirectly contribute to pain of an animal, whilst the assumption was that plants don't feel it. Science now is helping suggest otherwise, so we've got a different vantage point now.

    Just what is it that makes Karma frown upon eating meat. If plants and animals can feel pain, only other thing is consciousness? If it's that, that's an even more greyer area. Some lifeforms can be suggested to be more conscious than others.

    I'd an interesting chat with a freind once. He asked me do i believe in Karma. I said i havn't looked at it properly. He couldn't beleive that, as he said i'm spiritual. Karma is an incredibly complex subject i told him, and i'm not gonna believe one phrase to sum it up, simply cause everyone else is. Why in spirituality is not eating meat encouraged? surely it's not on the basis folks like Lord buddha said so? Even he said to question him, and other teachers.

    On the medicial side. Meat eaters have higher testosterone, and this is associated with heart problems. It's said our intestines are smooth, like a herbivore. Carnivore are ridged. Our teeth aren't like a carnivore. I guess though, if we weren't meant to eat meat physically, then we wouldn't be able to eat meat?

    Take care
    Wayne

    I guess if you can't eat meat raw
    then its not part of the human diet.


    When I stopped eating red meat it was difficult
    cooking dinner cause my husband still liked his
    sirloin steaks. Over the years our dinner menu
    became more fish, chicken, fresh vegetables,fruits.
    on ocassion when I do cook red meat for him or he
    orders it at a restaurant, he says he can notice the
    difference in the way his food is digesting.

    Eating red meat like anything else is a personal choice.
    I choose to elimiate, sugar,white flour, hydrgonated
    oils, alcohol, dairy products,red meats,......that
    makes this little pig happy


    Bruce
    Member
    Member

    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Bruce on Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:27 am

    chi_solas wrote:
    I guess if you can't eat meat raw
    then its not part of the human diet.


    When I stopped eating red meat it was difficult
    cooking dinner cause my husband still liked his
    sirloin steaks. Over the years our dinner menu
    became more fish, chicken, fresh vegetables,fruits.
    on ocassion when I do cook red meat for him or he
    orders it at a restaurant, he says he can notice the
    difference in the way his food is digesting.

    Eating red meat like anything else is a personal choice.
    I choose to elimiate, sugar,white flour, hydrgonated
    oils, alcohol, dairy products,red meats,......that
    makes this little pig happy

    You mention chicken being on your dinner menu. That has to be cooked, right? So are you saying chicken isn't part of the human diet?

    Bruce
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    chi_solas
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by chi_solas on Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:16 am

    Bruce wrote:
    chi_solas wrote:
    I guess if you can't eat meat raw
    then its not part of the human diet.


    When I stopped eating red meat it was difficult
    cooking dinner cause my husband still liked his
    sirloin steaks. Over the years our dinner menu
    became more fish, chicken, fresh vegetables,fruits.
    on ocassion when I do cook red meat for him or he
    orders it at a restaurant, he says he can notice the
    difference in the way his food is digesting.

    Eating red meat like anything else is a personal choice.
    I choose to elimiate, sugar,white flour, hydrgonated
    oils, alcohol, dairy products,red meats,......that
    makes this little pig happy

    You mention chicken being on your dinner menu. That has to be cooked, right? So are you saying chicken isn't part of the human diet?

    Bruce

    no I'm not saying that,
    people can eat what ever
    they want. They can even
    cook fruit/vegetables if
    they don't want to eat
    them raw. cherry


    Bruce
    Member
    Member

    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Bruce on Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:06 am

    chi_solas wrote:
    Bruce wrote:
    chi_solas wrote:
    I guess if you can't eat meat raw
    then its not part of the human diet.


    When I stopped eating red meat it was difficult
    cooking dinner cause my husband still liked his
    sirloin steaks. Over the years our dinner menu
    became more fish, chicken, fresh vegetables,fruits.
    on ocassion when I do cook red meat for him or he
    orders it at a restaurant, he says he can notice the
    difference in the way his food is digesting.

    Eating red meat like anything else is a personal choice.
    I choose to elimiate, sugar,white flour, hydrgonated
    oils, alcohol, dairy products,red meats,......that
    makes this little pig happy

    You mention chicken being on your dinner menu. That has to be cooked, right? So are you saying chicken isn't part of the human diet?

    Bruce

    no I'm not saying that,
    people can eat what ever
    they want. They can even
    cook fruit/vegetables if
    they don't want to eat
    them raw. cherry

    Then why are you saying that "I guess if you can't eat meat raw
    then its not part of the human diet" ? Am I missing something, here?

    Bruce
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    chi_solas
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by chi_solas on Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:32 am

    Bruce wrote:
    chi_solas wrote:
    Bruce wrote:
    chi_solas wrote:
    I guess if you can't eat meat raw
    then its not part of the human diet.


    When I stopped eating red meat it was difficult
    cooking dinner cause my husband still liked his
    sirloin steaks. Over the years our dinner menu
    became more fish, chicken, fresh vegetables,fruits.
    on ocassion when I do cook red meat for him or he
    orders it at a restaurant, he says he can notice the
    difference in the way his food is digesting.

    Eating red meat like anything else is a personal choice.
    I choose to elimiate, sugar,white flour, hydrgonated
    oils, alcohol, dairy products,red meats,......that
    makes this little pig happy

    You mention chicken being on your dinner menu. That has to be cooked, right? So are you saying chicken isn't part of the human diet?

    Bruce

    no I'm not saying that,
    people can eat what ever
    they want. They can even
    cook fruit/vegetables if
    they don't want to eat
    them raw. cherry

    Then why are you saying that "I guess if you can't eat meat raw
    then its not part of the human diet" ? Am I missing something, here?

    Bruce

    I guess your sense of humor is different than mine

    avatar
    vijaybali
    Member
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by vijaybali on Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:22 pm

    Reikijim wrote:What do you think of "genetically enhanced" fruits and vegetables?

    Can you asked some other way i don’t understand
    Reikijim wrote:

    What do you think would happen to the "rich countries", as you put it, if we quit consuming all meat tomorrow?

    Veg food for spiritual person because it increased their energy and make more positive and Silence in nature and strong intuition lot more So now not worry about full world just think own self because we are following spiritual path . First need to changed own not others. I showed the way which is very common in spiritual world that reason all saint fellow it and we are also working on that .

    Reikjim wrote:Is there less disease and suffering in countries where the citizens eat mostly fruits and vegetables?

    No, dought, very very less.

    Reikjim wrote:
    Scientists and doctors claim stuff all the time...They back it up with facts and figures....and then change their minds and tell you something else, a short while, or a long while later. Sometimes the latest tests and studies stand the test of time...and other times, health breakthroughs turn out to be, fad, fantasy or a healthy story for an industry in particular.


    Not worry about doctor and scientist our scientist is our saint and our own soul.
    Reikjim wrote:
    I really do not care for people projecting guilt my way because i consume meat a couple of times a week. It`s nice that you back up your position with other peoples conclusions, in regard to research, instead of throwing guilt and accusation.


    Nobody stop anybody for eating meat. You can also eat. But i have seen you have nice soul and want to help others so i explain all for you get better result in healing and it also help those who come to your place for healing.
    Reikjim wrote:
    Let me ask you one question...In the wild, when one animal eats another animal....does their "karma" get messed up?

    Animals become animals due to karma and they have very very limit option to make their life better or coming life better they are just following the life due to karma and they have not logic brain like us to take decision what is right and what wrong
    That reason they eat each others. Again if i start to explain than again it become very big article. So i write in short.

    at the end This only for those who want to get better result or best result in reiki may be you get result with non-veg but once person vegetarian he got lot of extra power which is not possible in non-veg food that reason all saint follow it .
    But i am very thank full to you for arise this question it help lot of friends.
    Thanks and regards

    vj[/justify]
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    Shakti ~ Rising
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    Re: veg and non-veg

    Post by Shakti ~ Rising on Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:10 pm

    Vj, I can't find it now but I was reading that you said when the body dies it breaks down and starts to smell........well have you ever smelt rotting veg?? not exactly mouthwatering.. geek

    vijaybali wrote:
    So you never stop pulling legs....... But i am sportman.

    If i start explaning this than again long long article and most of friends will feel sleepy and some of them start cleaning the fridge and shopping and somethem start to eating non-veg again and if i take my view i skip such long article.

    In short, i say just put veg and non-veg in open space and than you can find your anwser or otherway when any animals died on the way the smell spread long-2 way if any plant or vegitable died hardly any body smell it utill you not reached very closed to it.

    thanks and love

    vj

    Life's too short to be too serious!!

    at the end of the day I understand your views but don't agree with them... Very Happy

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