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    A thought on initiations..

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    Milarepa
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    A thought on initiations..

    Post by Milarepa on Wed May 19, 2010 7:38 am

    I was thinking yesterday.. (surprised me that, hehe!)

    It's about initiations.

    Would you initiate someone who couldn't understand the things as most of the rest of us could? Would you initiate someone who was clearly sub-intelligent, thereby making it next to impossible to convey what the initiations entail, what they might do, what is & isn't acceptable in Reiki practice, how they might change their life. Possible healing crisis, etc, etc, etc.

    If you'd decline to initiate another person because of any, or all of the above, how come it's fine to forgo all those issues and attempt to initiate animals?

    Warmest wishes
    Wayne


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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by chi_solas on Wed May 19, 2010 11:28 am

    Depends at what level of understanding,
    like mentally challenged. confused

    Is the word sub -intelligence refering
    to a person's IQ Question

    I've not heard/known of animals to be
    initiated. IMO animals bring much comfort
    and companionship. I see no reason to
    initiate them.


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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by Milarepa on Wed May 19, 2010 5:32 pm

    I'm laying out the ground for equating a human's understanding with an animals, lets say a dog. On equal intelligence of single human, it'd be interesting to see if anyone woudl initiate that human.

    Yeah, folks have initiaited animals. A guy said he did his dog a couple years ago. Initiated i mean.


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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by MattiT on Wed May 19, 2010 10:44 pm

    Milarepa wrote:I'm laying out the ground for equating a human's understanding with an animals, lets say a dog.

    Personally I would only initiate a person if I knew (s)he understands the meaning of the initiation. This requires some verbal communication so I probably wouldn't initiate a dog even if I could trust that his level of understanding equals that of a human.

    For the same reason I would not initiate very young children. (I'm not giving any age limit here because there are huge individual differences.)

    I wouldn't judge those who do attune their pets but I feel that's treating the attunement more or less like a kind of parlour game. Not exactly a view I'd share...
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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by chi_solas on Fri May 21, 2010 12:41 pm

    MattiT wrote:
    Milarepa wrote:I'm laying out the ground for equating a human's understanding with an animals, lets say a dog.

    Personally I would only initiate a person if I knew (s)he understands the meaning of the initiation. This requires some verbal communication so I probably wouldn't initiate a dog even if I could trust that his level of understanding equals that of a human.

    For the same reason I would not initiate very young children. (I'm not giving any age limit here because there are huge individual differences.)

    I wouldn't judge those who do attune their pets but I feel that's treating the attunement more or less like a kind of parlour game. Not exactly a view I'd share...

    MattiT that's an interesting term "parlour game"

    most folks that I'm aware of who have attuned their
    children, have done so around the age 7/8. I would
    suggest that the children know what's involved and
    that they agree without being coerced sunny


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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by MattiT on Sat May 22, 2010 7:03 am

    chi_solas wrote:MattiT that's an interesting term "parlour game"

    Isn't it? Cool I had in mind the spiritistic sessions people used to arrange for fun in the early 20th century (or so I've heard).

    most folks that I'm aware of who have attuned their
    children, have done so around the age 7/8. I would
    suggest that the children know what's involved and
    that they agree without being coerced sunny

    Children who grow up in a family where reiki is used to heal the occasional bumps and bruises probably have a fairly good understanding of reiki by that age.
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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by chi_solas on Sat May 22, 2010 12:06 pm

    In the movies I've seen those old fashioned parlours
    were visitors/house-guests were invited for tea.
    Depending on the story line a Ouija board would be
    part of the plot. affraid

    My grandchildren are very much aware of Reiki since they
    were toddlers. Being attuned to reiki has always been an
    option for them. Their other grandmother was my Reiki
    teacher.

    When they were younger they'd Reiki their classmates who
    got injured at recess. As they advanced into the upper
    grades its not something that's hip sorta speak. They are
    not formally attuned but will use it on animals.
    cat


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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by Lambs-Wool on Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:23 pm

    Good topic Wayne Smile

    personally, the more i m learning about reiki, the more choosy i m feeling the need to become whenever a question of initiations is put forward. i have had interesting experiences in this while.... ony my close buddy asked for initiations, i demaned some charge for it... and i sufficiently explained that why i would need to charge him for initiations... he is rich guy, and the amount i demanded is hardly equal to his frequent 'candle-light' dinners here and there....

    that experience gave me full satisfaction on the merits of the decision!


    becoming a teacher, or saying so, initiating someone is a huge big step... it is an interaction with the spiriutality of someone... this is the story of making a bond! no doubt, people have pets which are no less than their kids, yet still there is a big question of whether we would initiate them, or even our kids ?

    my son aged 7 has observed me doing reiki treatments quite often, and naturally he tries to do it himself too... in a way, he is draining himself of his personal energy when he tries to do 'reiki' sessions with his playmates...(he is not initiated yet)... what i have done for him is to guide him to some breathing exercises and some physical stuff, so as to build up some good base for him....

    he has stopped his 'reiki sessions' for some while, and i intend training him on a gradual slow pace till the time i can educate him about the aspects of Reiki...


    initiating pets ? well, i feel that it is not needed... animals, especially those living in their natural habitat, have an innate ability of healing themselves, and since they dont need any spirituality apparently, there seems no cogent reason of initiating them Smile


    take care

    salman
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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by chi_solas on Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:21 am

    initiating pets ? well, i feel that it is not needed... animals, especially those living in their natural habitat, have an innate ability of healing themselves, and since they dont need any spirituality apparently, there seems no cogent reason of initiating them Smile

    salman, that's interesting, humans have
    innate healing. Some folks would claim
    spirituality is not part of their belief Exclamation


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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by Lambs-Wool on Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:26 am

    Yes, Humans have innate healing abilities Bridget (who knows it better than your first hand experiences of fighting an impossible disease sunny)

    reiki seems to put that process in motion on physical levels, and also doing the rebuild of spirit on metaphysical levels Smile

    Take care
    Salman
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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by aronaya on Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:34 pm

    I have experienced great healing from a Reiki Master cat, attuned by the cat's human.

    Ask for an initiation from a wild animal sometime -- you may end up questioning the idea that we understand the workings of Spirit any more deeply than they do. In fact, the wild beings have much to teach us.

    It's good to respect childrens' free will. They may end up going way beyond what we think we know about doing Reiki.

    The more attunements I give, the less I truly know about them.
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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by chi_solas on Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:23 pm

    aronaya, I was an adult before getting
    close or connecting with animals.I hated
    trips to the zoo. I always ended up with
    a headache. Hind sight today I can see why.

    Children's learning does get stifled with
    the many rules/restrictions we put on them
    for their own good

    Attunements in any organization gives the
    official stamp of approval that you are now
    one of us. We can identify our brother/sister
    Reikian's


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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by Lambs-Wool on Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:12 am

    hi Aronaya Smile

    i have no doubts over several superb abilities of animals that sometimes surpass the corresponding abilities of human beings... But the idea of 'reiki master cat' just hovered above my head without entering it Smile when we use term 'master', we normally refer as someone who can initiate others into reiki...and that in turn requires certain ingredients so that the reiki ability may pass to the initiate... Can a cat, or some other animal, be supposed to do this??


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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by LightBody on Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:59 am

    Lambs-Wool wrote:hi Aronaya Smile

    i have no doubts over several superb abilities of animals that sometimes surpass the corresponding abilities of human beings... But the idea of 'reiki master cat' just hovered above my head without entering it Smile when we use term 'master', we normally refer as someone who can initiate others into reiki...and that in turn requires certain ingredients so that the reiki ability may pass to the initiate... Can a cat, or some other animal, be supposed to do this??




    Perhaps being a Reiki Master does not have as much to do with the comprehension of Reiki Symbols and esoteric initiatory rites but rather the ability to allow one's heart to be open and simply feel unconditional love.



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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by aronaya on Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:39 am

    No way of knowing if the cat can teach Reiki, without giving it a try. My experience was of superb mastery, regardless of teaching ability.

    I'm not saying that animals would initiate us humans to Reiki. I think their approach is more direct and less tangled up in the confusions and delusions of language.
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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by LightBody on Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:23 am

    aronaya wrote:I'm not saying that animals would initiate us humans to Reiki. I think their approach is more direct and less tangled up in the confusions and delusions of language.


    Hmmmmm... maybe there is a connection there with Shinto???


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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by Lambs-Wool on Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:37 am

    Buck wrote:
    Lambs-Wool wrote:hi Aronaya Smile

    i have no doubts over several superb abilities of animals that sometimes surpass the corresponding abilities of human beings... But the idea of 'reiki master cat' just hovered above my head without entering it Smile when we use term 'master', we normally refer as someone who can initiate others into reiki...and that in turn requires certain ingredients so that the reiki ability may pass to the initiate... Can a cat, or some other animal, be supposed to do this??




    Perhaps being a Reiki Master does not have as much to do with the comprehension of Reiki Symbols and esoteric initiatory rites but rather the ability to allow one's heart to be open and simply feel unconditional love.


    hi Buck Smile

    again today, i m posting the second time as the earlier post was eaten up by an 'http error 401' Smile

    i m trying to understand what you've said.. if we see at initiations, what is at the core ? is there love/compassion, sacredness/esotericity, ability/empowerment ?
    we find it difficult to pick one pair and leave the rest... all things 'constitute' the process we can call a reiki initiation... thus the esoteric flavour is also an ingredient, as is love and compassion....

    technical debate aside, i feel i have to resort to the emotional tone of the passage by Aronaya more deeply, thus :

    Aronaya wrote:
    I have experienced great healing from a Reiki Master cat, attuned by the cat's human.

    Ask for an initiation from a wild animal sometime -- you may end up questioning the idea that we understand the workings of Spirit any more deeply than they do. In fact, the wild beings have much to teach us.

    if i get the real bent of his passage, i feel have a spoken from a differnt angle here... what he speaks is the accessibility of a living being to what is innate in it... animals are, no doubt' having more access to the innate ability within them, as compared to us humans... while we need something called "reiki" to invigorate / access our innate ability, animals can naturally do that... and perhaps, thats why, he said that if an animal wants, given its un-tainted love, un-associated natural flow, it can 'attune' someone as more effectively (or at least can transfer healing), as a highly trained reiki practitioner would ??

    having that said, it is important to distinguish that every healing is not reiki, and reiki is not just healing... while things have a common semblance, their specie can differ very widely...

    what i have observed about reiki so far, is that it operates througha spiritual mandate, that is, in a way, carried forward through symbols, as and eddict of Usui Sensei.. if we do what we are taught to do within reiki, we are practicing reiki... if we add things, or if we ignore things, we are doing something different than reiki, although it might be apparently more effective than reiki....

    within esoteric cultures, it is sometimes a long-lived tradition, that a student feels it un-respectful to change something what his master had taught, unless the master gives a consent to change Smile

    thus, by all means, i agree with Aronaya as he said about animals, but i don't agree that would be Reiki :baseball:


    Smile

    take care

    salman
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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by chi_solas on Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:34 am

    Good point that an animal's love/affection is
    un-conditional. They do have a nuturing/innate
    healing abilities.


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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by Milarepa on Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:37 am

    good points guys, Smile. an attunement is only one part of an initiation. initiaiton being the attunement, teaching, watching the development of student in-course, assessing, depending on level. i mean, not everyone should be taught Reiki. for various reasons. we can see from Usui meorial this was indicated. there's lots of erm, aspects to consider.

    in conferring an attunement, it's one thing the person giving it, though yet another thing the recipient understanding the significance of it.

    warmest wishes
    Wayne


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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by rzukic on Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:53 pm

    This turned out to be great thread with a lot to digest..and since I have been struggling finding answer to some of the above questions I hope you'll not mind if I share some of it. So, let's start by
    looking into why somebody shouldn't be thought Reiki vs. Why Somebody Should. How we reconcile this?

    How RMT is to decide who is to get blessings that reiki process brings? It has been suggested by many that learning reiki doesn't depend on one's intellectual ability and now unless I have misunderstood, it is implied that if somebody is mentally challenged shouldn't be taught reiki. Now, point is taken that it will be next to impossible for RMT to teach somebody who is not able to understand but the question is for those sane among us :-) can Reiki really be understood and explained intellectually or does it take a “heart” to understand reiki?

    How many among us can really claim to understand all aspects of reiki? In addition many teach and practice reiki by simply laying on the hands and let the reiki intelligence do the rest. Just as we do not “heal” many claim that we do not do the initiation. I have difficulties to believe that mentally challenged people would not benefit from ULFE.

    While it seems that understanding all aspects of reiki might be “out of reach” for many (if not all) practicing it certainly doesn't seem to be “rocket science”

    Regards,

    Resko
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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by Milarepa on Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:20 pm

    hiya Resko!

    rzukic wrote:
    looking into why somebody shouldn't be thought Reiki vs. Why Somebody Should. How we reconcile this?

    everyone's entitled to have a spiritual experience. this is the experience of 'Reiki' spoke about.

    the issue, if it's even that, is the responsibility that comes with it. or is meant to come with it. folks that learn the path but then teach for all the wrong reasons. cheapen the system. others fly in the face of spiritual precidents on what is appropriate and what isn't (permission is one). just who, or even what lifeform should be trained, (if i can even call it that also). i'm in a rush, so this is 40 seconds of reasons. i can give more in a few hours if needed, Smile.


    rzukic wrote:
    How RMT is to decide who is to get blessings that reiki process brings?

    the teacher has the spiritual permission, by being a master, to decide whom they train. they've to use their own judgment.



    rzukic wrote:
    It has been suggested by many that learning reiki doesn't depend on one's intellectual ability and now unless I have misunderstood, it is implied that if somebody is mentally challenged shouldn't be taught reiki.

    i think i've mentioned something to do with this before. there's two reasons care should be took.

    first is that mentally ill folks (depending on the person) might have an uneasy reaction, and for certainly, might carry out inappropriate behaviour re: Reiki.

    the second is if a RMT wants to teach, and they do teach, then they're teaching something. what this somethin is can vary sure, but it's common sense they'd like to pass full initiations (which is teachings) onto the student. if teh student hasn't the mental capacity to grasp what's being conveyed, it;s something to think about.


    rzukic wrote:
    Now, point is taken that it will be next to impossible for RMT to teach somebody who is not able to understand but the question is for those sane among us :-) can Reiki really be understood and explained intellectually or does it take a “heart” to understand reiki?

    are you aksing can even someone of low intelligence recieve an attunement then place their hands on themselves. of course. Reiki training is much more than this. i've taught folks like this, last one being a martial arts friend 7 weeks ago, it's not as easy as it seems. and we gotta take on board, if we were able to only do attunement, teach principles, show them how to place hands on themselves, then that's all we would ever do. but we don't. And if it's all was needed, Usui senei wouldn't have had levels, in a progressive system, going deeper & deeper.


    rzukic wrote:
    How many among us can really claim to understand all aspects of reiki? In addition many teach and practice reiki by simply laying on the hands and let the reiki intelligence do the rest. Just as we do not “heal” many claim that we do not do the initiation. I have difficulties to believe that mentally challenged people would not benefit from ULFE.

    of course mentally challenged folks would benefit from Reiki, Smile. All humans who want it would benefit. this is different form the many aspects of a responsible teacher. in which there is much, much more, than laying on of hands, and letting Reiki do the rest. that in itself is a most basic teaching, which isn't entirely accurate. then, no-one would know unless they were able to either study, or listen to others. or have the capacity to think for themselves, against many peers, Smile.


    rzukic wrote:
    While it seems that understanding all aspects of reiki might be “out of reach” for many (if not all) practicing it certainly doesn't seem to be “rocket science”

    practicing Reiki is more than laying our hands on ourselves and experiencing a feeling. the principles must be used for all things. it starts with the principles, then the experience of Reiki compliments it. the principles need to be memorised, understood, at least logically, and integrated emotionally, mentally & spiritually. it's a constant practice. we gotta remember the practice of Reiki is two-fold. not just attunement & laying of hands, Smile.

    if we keep in perspective, mentally challenged folks cna at times not even have the motor skills physically we have, or be able to communicate effecitvely. makes me wonder is such situations who woudl even give permission for the teaching.

    warmest wishes
    Wayne


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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by Lambs-Wool on Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:29 pm

    Hi Resko Smile

    combining post of Wayne, and then what you said as a general note, i feel that of course it needs to be assessed whether a person has a 'heart' to learn and then apply reiki Smile

    personally, i too will not teach reiki to a person who i feel will not apply and practice it... we come across many people who are sorta in a habit of collecting tags and reiki is just another tag for them... you can personally look into your experiences Resko that you must have come across several people in your life about whom you got an instant gut-feeling that even if you initiate them for free, they will not worth what you have done for them... isn't that a waste of a valuable thing like reiki and initiations ?

    being choosy about whom to initiate and whom to refuse might be having nexus to our ego too, and for this we have to be too much careful... but generally speaking, in life, we come across countless situations when we do 'prefer' one thing over the other... we make choices at each step of life : which toothpaste, shampoo, etc. to pick from a shopping rack, which brand of mobile fone will suit us, which person we can introduce as family acquaintance, etc. etc. we don't apply one size fits all rule all around! and when it comes to reiki, if we do make a choice whom to accept as student and whom not, i think we have a personal freedom of choice reserved for that Smile however, the way you put it, that mentally challanged buddies can have excellent reiki performance, i m totally agreed with you.. infact, the 'criterium' for selecting people as student has more to do with our 'intuition' than the objectively-set outward standards ! we are judge what appeals to our heart more Smile

    that was another dimension to what you said, i m waiting, what Wayne says in response to you though! Smile


    take care

    salman

    PS. while i posted this one, Wayne's appeared already, so mine should be taken as earlier to post no. 21 of Wayne. cheers
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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by chi_solas on Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:35 am

    I have not been faced with a mentally
    impaired client/student.It is my under
    -standing that when teaching mentally
    impaired students they are taught the
    basic survival skills.If they can handle
    the basics they can be taught Reiki.
    What a wonderful gift they would have
    to survive life's up's and down's sunny


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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by Milarepa on Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:45 am

    the first post was about:

    milarepa wrote:
    Would you initiate someone who couldn't understand the things as most of the rest of us could? Would you initiate someone who was clearly sub-intelligent, thereby making it next to impossible to convey what the initiations entail, what they might do, what is & isn't acceptable in Reiki practice, how they might change their life. Possible healing crisis, etc, etc, etc.

    quite a bit different from someone, anyone, being able to understand things. Smile before the topic progresses in this direction further, it was never once said mentally impaired folks shouldn't be taught Reiki, or even experience Reiki. the term is to general. my opinion is in the first post, Smile


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    Re: A thought on initiations..

    Post by chi_solas on Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:47 am

    Milarepa wrote:the first post was about:

    milarepa wrote:
    Would you initiate someone who couldn't understand the things as most of the rest of us could? Would you initiate someone who was clearly sub-intelligent, thereby making it next to impossible to convey what the initiations entail, what they might do, what is & isn't acceptable in Reiki practice, how they might change their life. Possible healing crisis, etc, etc, etc.

    quite a bit different from someone, anyone, being able to understand things. Smile before the topic progresses in this direction further, it was never once said mentally impaired folks shouldn't be taught Reiki, or even experience Reiki. the term is to general. my opinion is in the first post, Smile

    point understood. Rolling Eyes
    it would be helpful if you could
    create a scenerio of the kind of
    person you have in mind.

    Sub-intelligence imo is mentally
    challenged. Then there is brain dead.
    That is different than sub-intelligence
    There is a natural innate healing that
    the Reiki System promotes. You do not
    have to belong to "formal" Reiki to
    benefit from innate healing. To become
    a Reiki practitioner you do need to
    understand and comprehend the history,
    rituals and symbols. sunny



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