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o0wabi-sabi0o
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    Variations and Interpretations Regarding the Use Of Symbols

    Rlei_ki
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    Post by Rlei_ki Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:07 am

    o0wabi-sabi0o wrote:If we say "you cannot use the symbols unless you're Attuned to them" ...

    What if instead, we say:

    "the symbols cannot use you unless you are attuned to them" ?


    .
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    Milarepa
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    Post by Milarepa Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:20 am

    o0wabi-sabi0o wrote:
    Now, what if someone had absolutely NO knowledge of the swastika... never seen it before, never heard of it. Now what if we told them the name of this symbol was Choku Rei, and taught all the history/meanings/uses that go along with it?

    I'm thinking to a degree, it would work just the same.

    i liked your thought-provoking way of writing your post wabi, Smile .

    i'd wrote to Chris (pandora) earlier. suggesting an experiment some of us done. I then edited it, as i hadn't the tme to take part myself.

    I find it hard ot beleive, if a non-Reiki initiated person drew HSZSN, that they could absent heal, specifically following the simple intent once thing we do in Reiki. Or, they could initiate another with DKM.

    If some folks who are willing could gather some non-Reiki initiated folks, and let them try to use the symbols, and report what happened, that'd be cool. They'd need ot be totally non-Reiki initiated, and not a practitioner of an energy attunemnt system where the founder has Reiki roots. Also, they can't use any other techniques from other modalities, such as Qigong, Quantum Touch, etc. It has to be Reiki technqiues.

    This, if doen properly, would be a very interesting experiment.


    o0wabi-sabi0o wrote:
    But after thinking about the purpose of being Attuned to the symbols, I'm wondering if in being ATTUNED to them, we experience them on an entirely unique and profound level, in ways that can't be described with words. This IS similar to Buddhist Koans... you can find these on the internet as well. Most will seem like nonsensical anecdotes. After some research you might be able to understand some on an logical/intellectual level... even a hypothetical level. But there's a deeper meaning behind them that you can't possibly understand until you've EXPERIENCED the Koan. You're taught to meditate on the Koan daily, to live it, to recall it every moment....

    Of course, we both know what i'm gonna say here....

    The reason why we initiate others with the 4 symbols, is because we ourselves have recieved a spiritual empowerment from another. One above us in lineage, reaching back to Usui sensei. An unbroken line of spiritual empowerment. to understand why these 4 symbols are being used by us, we must look to what the symbols are, and, why they symbols where picked by Usui sensei.

    Is everyone simply initiating others, and not even wondering why they're doing what they do in initiaiton?

    o0wabi-sabi0o wrote:
    It's one thing to read about these things, and another to experience them and put them into practice in everyday life.

    totally true! I wanna say also though, practical spirituality is essential. Although, there's still a place for academic study alongside, Smile. Usui sensei done it, it was diretly related to us recieving Reiki. and, when, say, Buddhists recieve spiritual empowerments, they don't simply stop academic studies.

    Our Reiki expereince, constant as it is, doesn't mean we've reached the goal, end, whatever. It's helping us along just.

    Take care
    Wayne
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    Post by Reikijim Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:44 pm

    Milarepa wrote:

    The most important question i find with this, is why did Usui sensei pick that symbol in particular? There must surely be a reason why he choose that symbol.


    CKR wasn't 'invented' by Usui sensei. So of course there are other uses of it.

    Take care
    Wayne

    Hi Wayne,

    We have the symbol, and also, we have the idea associated to it....

    So, did the shape of that symbol exist before if was labeled CKR by Usui-sensei?


    I`ve found a few references to spirals in the world...chiseled into rock around 300 B.C., and before. Right hand spirals seem to be in alot of places in the ancient world, with more than one idea associated to the shape.
    I`ve seen references in Buddhism and other cultures, yet the symbol we identify with I cannot find a reference to Prior to Usui calling it CKR.
    One Tibetan reference i found related an association to an energy field...

    "Dorje with spiral energy whirls. These spirals portray fields of power generated by the dorje, the infinite nature of Buddhist wisdom. Early Buddhist century."

    and...

    "The dorje is the symbol of enlightenment. The shape of the dorje symbolizes the two forms of truth, relative and absolute. The connection of the two truths in the middle is known as the sphere of actual reality"

    Both references have a Tibetan origin.....Thogchags, Ancient Amulets of Tibet...


    i have the links if anyone is interested...

    lots of references to the spiral. Nothing pre-reiki to the shape we identify as CKR.

    Do you know if this symbol existed before Usui?


    Smile RJ
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    Post by Colin Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:27 pm

    Reikijim wrote:
    One Tibetan reference i found related an association to an energy field...

    "Dorje with spiral energy whirls. These spirals portray fields of power generated by the dorje, the infinite nature of Buddhist wisdom. Early Buddhist century."

    and...

    "The dorje is the symbol of enlightenment. The shape of the dorje symbolizes the two forms of truth, relative and absolute. The connection of the two truths in the middle is known as the sphere of actual reality"

    Both references have a Tibetan origin.....Thogchags, Ancient Amulets of Tibet...


    i have the links if anyone is interested...

    I would be interested in the links, please, Jim! Smile

    Reikijim wrote:
    lots of references to the spiral. Nothing pre-reiki to the shape we identify as CKR.

    Do you know if this symbol existed before Usui?


    Smile RJ

    Well here is a link to the Reiki News website which has some interesting photos one of which is of a couple of 6000 year old figures apparently giving themselves Reiki and the other shows a modern bowl with a decoration very much like the CKR but the design has apparently been in use for hundreds of years and no one nowadays can remember its significance.

    http://www.reiki.org/Online/sept01/SeptNL01.htm

    Like you I have come across lots of spirals in various cultures, usually symbolising energy but none have had the central line or first horizontal line. Oh, and that actually reminds me! Very Happy A few years ago I met a Japanese lady who was living in the UK but was a close associate of Toshitaka Mochizuki and was a Vortex Reiki Teacher. She felt that the first horizontal line of CKR was originally just a decorative stroke which had now become part of the symbol itself. She said if CKR symbolised focusing the Reiki (or directing the spirit Smile ) onto a particular point or area, why would it have to make a right angle turn before arriving there? Its path should be straight down from the universe and then focused using the spiral.

    Smile

    Ai to Hikari
    Colin
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    Post by Milarepa Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:39 pm

    Reikijim wrote:

    Hi Wayne,

    We have the symbol, and also, we have the idea associated to it....

    So, did the shape of that symbol exist before if was labeled CKR by Usui-sensei?

    IMO, we shouldn't get neccessarily to focused on the shape, when trying to understand things. The shape is Katakana, which is depicting the sound of a word. Kanji show the actual meaning of the word. This is very important i feel, Smile.

    Reikijim wrote:
    Nothing pre-reiki to the shape we identify as CKR.

    Do you know if this symbol existed before Usui?

    If we don't focus on the shape, which is only a romanised version of Katakana, we can make some headway, Smile.

    So yeah, CKR, as in the romanised Katakana shape, did exist well before Usui sensei.

    see: http://www.aetw.org/reiki_symbolsP.html .

    The kanji is where we might begin to find the answers. And, obvioucly usui sensei knew the Kanji meaning deeply. So, we'll also get a glimpse into his personal ideas on Reiki, and, even his own spirituality perhaps?

    See: http://www.aetw.org/reiki_symbolsP_naohi.htm


    IMHO, these things we're writing about here, are perhaps the single most important ones we can, in Reiki, Smile. It's been spoke about on here before, so i can mention all this a bit.

    Take care
    Wayne
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    Post by Milarepa Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:48 pm

    Colin wrote:

    Well here is a link to the Reiki News website which has some interesting photos one of which is of a couple of 6000 year old figures apparently giving themselves Reiki and the other shows a modern bowl with a decoration very much like the CKR but the design has apparently been in use for hundreds of years and no one nowadays can remember its significance.

    http://www.reiki.org/Online/sept01/SeptNL01.htm

    Interesting Reiki.org said this. You could take a photo of my Colin, withmy hands on someone, and it hardly means i'm doing Reiki! It could be QT, Qigong, or maybe i just like touhcing people! Suspect




    Colin wrote:
    She felt that the first horizontal line of CKR was originally just a decorative stroke which had now become part of the symbol itself. She said if CKR symbolised focusing the Reiki (or directing the spirit Smile ) onto a particular point or area, why would it have to make a right angle turn before arriving there? Its path should be straight down from the universe and then focused using the spiral.


    Thankyou for sharing that!
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    Post by Pandora Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:51 pm

    Colin wrote:


    Like you I have come across lots of spirals in various cultures, usually symbolising energy but none have had the central line or first horizontal line. Oh, and that actually reminds me! Very Happy A few years ago I met a Japanese lady who was living in the UK but was a close associate of Toshitaka Mochizuki and was a Vortex Reiki Teacher. She felt that the first horizontal line of CKR was originally just a decorative stroke which had now become part of the symbol itself. She said if CKR symbolised focusing the Reiki (or directing the spirit Smile ) onto a particular point or area, why would it have to make a right angle turn before arriving there? Its path should be straight down from the universe and then focused using the spiral.

    Smile

    Ai to Hikari
    Colin

    Putting my six-year-old head on here:

    "Oh that's easy! It's a handle!"
    bounce
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    Post by Rlei_ki Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:52 am

    Colin wrote:...Well here is a link to the Reiki News website which has some interesting photos one of which is of a couple of 6000 year old figures apparently giving themselves Reiki ..

    I suppose its all a matter of perspective...

    Personally, it looks like an all-too-familiar scene that's played out on a regular basis in many households around the world (and probably has been for the last 6000 years)


    Variations and Interpretations Regarding the Use Of Symbols - Page 2 Reikifigurescropped


    The husband (on the left) is sitting there dejectedly, saying something like:
    "Aw - do we have to? I wanna go for a drink with the guys"

    and his wife is sitting there indignantly, saying something like:
    "But you know we always go visit my sister on the first Tuesday of the month - we're going; end of conversation."


    Laughing
    .
    .
    .
    o0wabi-sabi0o
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    Post by o0wabi-sabi0o Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:54 am

    ^ Win.
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    Post by o0wabi-sabi0o Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:16 am

    Ok....try attuning someone, use no symbols. Whats left of the attunment procedure?
    Really, tell me how you would do it, and where you would start...let me know the out come...It would be fascinating.

    Question: does Attuning someone to the symbols mean "imprinting them into their aura" (or whatever you wish to call it - "spiritual blueprint," "soul" etc.) or does it mean introducing them to the symbol, its essence, its vibration etc. through this firsthand experience?

    Do you use all of the symbols in every Attunement or only those you're Attuning them to? Or do you use all of the symbols but not necessarily ATTUNE the student to each?
    Reikijim
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    Post by Reikijim Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:56 pm

    o0wabi-sabi0o wrote:
    Ok....try attuning someone, use no symbols. Whats left of the attunment procedure?
    Really, tell me how you would do it, and where you would start...let me know the out come...It would be fascinating.

    Question: does Attuning someone to the symbols mean "imprinting them into their aura" (or whatever you wish to call it - "spiritual blueprint," "soul" etc.) or does it mean introducing them to the symbol, its essence, its vibration etc. through this firsthand experience?

    Ok...I`ll bite...You have used my quote so I will assume this may be addressed to me...or not...

    Why don`t we just consider the fact that you have answered your own question, in, and of itself. I would say that both ideas hold merit. I do believe for me, the experience of being attuned, to be much more thrilling than the mechanics of the interaction. I other words...I have no idea...

    Also: Attunement:

    "being or bringing into harmony; a feeling of being "at one with another"

    "to adjust or accustom (a person or thing); acclimatize"

    " To bring into a harmonious or responsive relationship "


    My personal favorite.."If I hadn`t felt it, I would not have believed it"

    Do these definitions help you?


    o0wabi-sabi0o wrote:

    Do you use all of the symbols in every Attunement or only those you're Attuning them to? Or do you use all of the symbols but not necessarily ATTUNE the student to each?


    There are considerable variations in attunments. I would suppose that some of us would like to know Takata-sensei`s exact method. I would anyways.
    There are some generally accepted, more used versions, and those who attune the individual, using basic guide lines, with variations, based on intuitive perception, guides, what you had for breakfast, and how the stock market is doing that day....I would hope everyone knows that I`m kidding...

    I think most start out attuneing people based on what they were taught by their teacher. Komyo is a certain way, Usui/Tibetan is a certain way, yet i do know people who are certified by Rand`s organization who do change things a bit.
    Lots of books and lineages represent lots of slight variations....symbols are always there. Not always are they the Usui symbols, but in most systems there are symbols that represent commonalities to CKR,SHK,HSZSN and DKM.

    From reading your posts, I would assume that you have experience in regard to the questions you have offered. What is your spin on things?

    Smile RJ


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    Post by Thaak Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:31 am

    Thaak wrote:
    o0wabi-sabi0o wrote:So yuh no need to fear the symbols. lol!
    chuckle... I don't fear them. I just don't feel the need to use them in my personal practice any longer.

    I want to clarify something here.

    It isn't that the symbols or the energy construct or organization they represent isn't present when I practice. They are.

    I just have done away with all the ritual surrounding the symbols. If I feel intuitively that I should focus on a specific symbol during a session, then I do so.

    But I think that if you approach a healing session from a dual perspective, then the following could happen:

    Client: Oh, I am having some emotional problems.

    Your Internal Dialogue: Ok, emotional issues, I'm gonna use SHK today.

    This presents a problem potentially, because you are treating a symptom, rather than the person. You are also allowing your ego to make a decision how you are going to treat the symptom.

    If you just open up a session with unconditional love and recognizing the divine spark, then intuition can guide you as to if you should be focusing on anything specific.
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    Post by Thaak Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:34 am

    o0wabi-sabi0o wrote:^ Win.

    Huh?
    Reikijim
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    Post by Reikijim Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:46 am

    Thaak wrote:

    Client: Oh, I am having some emotional problems.

    Your Internal Dialogue: Ok, emotional issues, I'm gonna use SHK today.

    This presents a problem potentially, because you are treating a symptom, rather than the person. You are also allowing your ego to make a decision how you are going to treat the symptom.

    If you just open up a session with unconditional love and recognizing the divine spark, then intuition can guide you as to if you should be focusing on anything specific.

    Hi Andy,

    i totally agree with what you say here...and how i do things myself, sometimes, not always...no generalities, in treatment at least...

    a very easy to understand reference...thanks man

    Smile RJ
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    Post by Thaak Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:21 pm

    Reikijim wrote:

    Hi Andy,

    i totally agree with what you say here...and how i do things myself, sometimes, not always...no generalities, in treatment at least...

    a very easy to understand reference...thanks man

    Smile RJ

    first, no problems. Probably the first time I was able to say, on this topic, what I wanted to say, concisely, and so it made sense to others as well.

    Second, I agree. This is such a hard topic to have a discussion on sometimes, because it feels like when something is written, that is the stereotype you've chosen to live by wholly.

    I'm glad you mentioned the... "no generalities," thing. Because I can't say any single session I've facilitated has been the same. Each one seems to mold itself to the client, and indeed the unique momentary needs of repeat clients as well.
    Reikijim
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    Post by Reikijim Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:03 pm

    Thaak wrote:
    Reikijim wrote:

    Hi Andy,

    i totally agree with what you say here...and how i do things myself, sometimes, not always...no generalities, in treatment at least...

    a very easy to understand reference...thanks man

    Smile RJ

    first, no problems. Probably the first time I was able to say, on this topic, what I wanted to say, concisely, and so it made sense to others as well.

    Second, I agree. This is such a hard topic to have a discussion on sometimes, because it feels like when something is written, that is the stereotype you've chosen to live by wholly.

    I'm glad you mentioned the... "no generalities," thing. Because I can't say any single session I've facilitated has been the same. Each one seems to mold itself to the client, and indeed the unique momentary needs of repeat clients as well.


    Hi Andy,

    Sessions with clients are always a delightful surprise in regard to what develops. My experiences with clients have generated, many "soulful smiles' in my heart.
    When people who have experienced Reiki for the first time , open their eyes with peace and a slight sense of awe...I cannot help but feel joy through out my person/spirit. We truly have been blessed in the ability to help others. So many of us gain so very much through this interaction.

    I`m so very glad that I have finally come to a clear understanding of the ideas you have been trying very hard to project, regarding your personal relationship with symbols. It`s always delightful, when I find us in the same place, and it`s funny as to how much we learn trying to get there. It has been said that some things defy description through language, only the experience gives the true meaning.

    with much respect,

    Smile RJ
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    Post by Reikijim Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:16 pm

    Thaak wrote:

    If you just open up a session with unconditional love and recognizing the divine spark, then intuition can guide you as to if you should be focusing on anything specific.

    Yeah man,

    There is that feeling that one recognizes...When you know that you are in touch with, as a certain spiritual leader of the modern world would say...."your true nature", a truly "connected" experience is realized in this state of being.
    Love can heal most things, not an emotional attachment kind of love, no, a type of love that lets one find peace and harmony, beauty and appreciation, without the ego wanting to posses it, as when the ego is not in control, we realize that this kind of "love" is always present...compassionate...connected to all...

    :)RJ

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