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thehungrycaterpillar
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    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements

    Milarepa
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    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements

    Post by Milarepa Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:44 am

    I've got a hold of Steve's DVD Reiki attunements. Most of his total work. Although i'm already initiated into the Reiki expereince, i thought it might be interesting (at least for me) to see once & for all, what is going on here with his stuff.

    I've always been of the mind, it's both improper to teach this way, and also, quite probably ineffective. Starting tommorow, i'm gonna begin going through his stuff, and will make my observations bout it. I've gotta wait a day, as i want to clear my head from my pre-judgments. I certainly wanna give an honest opinion. I feel i've got sufficient awareness to comment on whatever may or may not happen spirtually/energetically. I'm really only concerned with whether the attunements are effective or not.

    Edit: I've got bout 7 or 8 of his DVD's. I'll do them all, and comment on them.

    Take care
    Wayne


    Last edited by Milarepa on Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Reikijim Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:07 pm

    Milarepa wrote:I've got a hold of Steve's DVD Reiki attunements. Most of his total work. Although i'm already initiated into the Reiki expereince, i thought it might be interesting (at least for me) to see once & for all, what is going on here with his stuff.

    I've always been of the mind, it's both improper to teach this way, and also, quite probably ineffective. Starting tommorow, i'm gonna begin going through his stuff, and will make my observations bout it. I've gotta wait a day, as i want to clear my head from my pre-judgments. I certainly wanna give an honest opinion. I feel i've got sufficient awareness to comment on whatever may or may not happen spirtually/energetically. I'm really only concerned with whether the attunements are effective or not.

    Take care
    Wayne


    Hi Wayne,



    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements 63216 ....This ought to be interesting Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation
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    Post by Milarepa Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:52 pm

    something interesting already, i've found. It's a bit weird. I watched the first 8 mins of the level 1 dvd. Just talk bout it all really, basic intro stuff. I actually began to find myself beleiving him, hehe. And i havn't even went through the initiaton yet. so i had to turn it of. It's so weird for me to suddenly feel that way. Steve used a lot of good body language. He's also a hypnotherapist. I'm not suggesting he's done this, but subliminal persuasion came to mind. TV adverts were doing that for years also. I thought it worth mentioning now, before i go through with the attunement thing tomorrow.
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    Post by chi_solas Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:41 pm

    Milarepa wrote:something interesting already, i've found. It's a bit weird. I watched the first 8 mins of the level 1 dvd. Just talk bout it all really, basic intro stuff. I actually began to find myself beleiving him, hehe. And i havn't even went through the initiaton yet. so i had to turn it of. It's so weird for me to suddenly feel that way. Steve used a lot of good body language. He's also a hypnotherapist. I'm not suggesting he's done this, but subliminal persuasion came to mind. TV adverts were doing that for years also. I thought it worth mentioning now, before i go through with the attunement thing tomorrow.

    From your description,he sounds
    like a good motivational speaker sunny
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    Post by Milarepa Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:09 pm

    This is the thing, he was only saying basic Reiki stuff. so i'm not sure why i began to believe the dvd attunement would work i hasn't saw any of that yet.
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    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Level 1 attunement

    Post by Milarepa Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:47 am

    Ok, i completed the level 1 DVD not too long ago.

    • I was told to use the common students hand positions during attunement.

    • Keep eyes open at all times, and look into a crystal on screen.

    • This crystal was situated in Sedona, at a vortex. I'm assuming that Steve done the attunmenets there. He points out that it's no matter when he actually done the attunement, he done it in the 'now', and i'd recieve it in the 'now'.

    • The attunement was with Usui, Tibetan & Karuna symbols. And lasted for approx. 10 mins or so.

    • During the process i never felt anything, save for some heart palpitations. Common to me with spiritual expereinces. I didn't feel any symbol placement, which i've felt before in other systems

    • Afterwards, i felt somewhat more at peace, it's a subtle effect. I havn't noticed any change in the Reiki experience, i was particularly looking for a lessening. This is common among some who recieve more attunements, and has happened with me before.

    • It's real interesting Steve choose to do this at a Sedona Vortex. I guess if this type of thing was gonna work anywhere, it'd be somewhere like there.

    • Places like Sedona Vortex, things may be possible that mightn't be anywhere else.


    So, without actually (at this point) knowing the exact process Steve's used, going by the location, and finally looking at the way i feel post-process, i have to say that something does indeed seem to have occured.

    Once i feel totally back to normal, i'll do level 2...
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    Post by chi_solas Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:35 am

    He had you mindfully focused
    in a peaceful setting. Neutral

    I have had a picture of Reiki
    hands sent with instructions to
    focus on the energy of the hands.
    It works cause atm I'm focused
    on the energy hands. sunny

    You should try it out on someone
    who's not Reiki santa
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    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Level 2 attunement

    Post by Milarepa Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:06 am

    Hi All,
    I completed the level 2 dvd a short while ago. This time the setting was at the pacific ocean, though once again looking into a crystal. During the process things seemed much more subtle. There was warmth & tingling, it was slight. I didn't feel any symbol placment like before, ans the Reiki experience doesn't seem to have diminished. I feel slightly more calmer & centred than before. That in itself doesn't mean anything, as the process lasted for approx 10 mins, so meditating on one thing can have that effect.
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    Post by LightBody Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:26 am

    I rented some of his dvd's a couple years ago through Netflix.com, a source of dvd rentals.

    What is Not Reiki about his methods?
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    Post by Milarepa Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:40 am

    That's actually a good question. If we're thinking alike here, it's within the spirit of Reiki, as he's sharing as much as possible.

    Anyhow, dunno what's 'not-Reiki' bout it all bro. In this day an age it's hard to know 'what-is' in Reiki, never mind what isn't, hehe. Smile.

    Personally, i've always questioned the validity of this kinda thing, from my own understandings of spirutal empowerments passed down in lineage. I'm publicly challenging my own beliefs with this, so it's gonna be interesting (for me at least), to see if there's any change. I'm keeping a very open mind bout all this. At the moment, a main concern was whether the thing actually worked. Something has happened, it hasn't been consistent with my awareness of other initiations, so it's hard to tell what, atm. One things for sure, if i feel it does what it says, i'll definitely say here.

    The other thing that concerned me, still exists. It's from a teaching perspective. Steve does offer post-attunement email support, this is good. Although, there's certainly no teacher-student connection before (academically dunno, spirutually - probably no), and maybe during attunement. In fact, it's hard for me to say there's any 'teacher-student' relationship at all, right up to attunement process. Still early days for me though!

    I've had some Kuji-in & Buddhist initiations last few days, which is why i havn't went to level 3 with steve's stuff yet. I wanna be totally clear bout wha ti experience.

    Take care
    Wayne
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    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Re: Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements

    Post by thehungrycaterpillar Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:20 am

    Yo!

    I did try Steve's couple of DVDs, Reiki-level 2 & a Emotional healing DVD ? - I think!

    My opinion, They did have an effect on me!! Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements 850837

    At the time I remember being brand new, staring at the crystal and all. I did feel warmth, feet getting hot, that night I didn't sleep well.
    But with the Emotional healing DVD, weird, cool things happened... At that time of sitting for the crystal staring, nothing much happened, but that night I remember having vivid, colorful dreams, waking up at 3:00am in the morning b'cos I felt an insect's wing fluttering intensely between my eyebrows..... obviously there was no insect! Shocked

    My feet just got hot as I recalled the whole thing..... cyclops
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    Post by LightBody Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:56 am

    Milarepa wrote:Anyhow, dunno what's 'not-Reiki' bout it all bro. In this day an age it's hard to know 'what-is' in Reiki, never mind what isn't, hehe. Smile.

    For myself, sometimes identifying points that make something not-something helps me overcome blocks in my own thinking process, and allows me to see things from a better (a greater) perspective.



    Milarepa wrote:Personally, i've always questioned the validity of this kinda thing, from my own understandings of spirutal empowerments passed down in lineage. I'm publicly challenging my own beliefs with this, so it's gonna be interesting (for me at least), to see if there's any change.


    I don't know that there has been any other way to pass down empowerments and teachings in the past, because "before" directly interacting with another was all that was possible. Multi-media presentations & technology just didn't exist the way they do today.



    thehungrycaterpillar wrote:At the time I remember being brand new, staring at the crystal and all. I did feel warmth, feet getting hot, that night I didn't sleep well.

    "Resistance (to healing energies) is futile."



    thehungrycaterpillar wrote:But with the Emotional healing DVD, weird, cool things happened... At that time of sitting for the crystal staring, nothing much happened, but that night I remember having vivid, colorful dreams, waking up at 3:00am in the morning b'cos I felt an insect's wing fluttering intensely between my eyebrows..... obviously there was no insect!

    No point in staying in that comfy silk cocoon forever, eh? You've got to emerge sometime!
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    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Re: Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements

    Post by Milarepa Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:56 am

    Buck wrote:
    Milarepa wrote:Personally, i've always questioned the validity of this kinda thing, from my own understandings of spirutal empowerments passed down in lineage. I'm publicly challenging my own beliefs with this, so it's gonna be interesting (for me at least), to see if there's any change.


    I don't know that there has been any other way to pass down empowerments and teachings in the past, because "before" directly interacting with another was all that was possible. Multi-media presentations & technology just didn't exist the way they do today.

    so true. I know from my kuji-in initiations, it's all done over skype. when i compare that to my private Kuji-in practice over the last year, post-skype initiations there's a major difference.

    To lump some crude quantum physics in with old spirituality here. sine we're all connected, since there's no ' we're ' anyhow, since there's nothing seperating myself & you Buck, an initiation that uses todays technology in which the teacher can see the student, and vice-versa, has a good case argueably.

    Only thing is, and i'm including myself in this, to know if this is really an acceptable way to do things, we have to know what exactly goes on in initiations. There's a big possiblity (i feel) there's still much to learn. With Steve's stuff, i'm finding it difficult to find the spiritual connection he can make with anyone who buys his dvd's. It's not enough (to me) to say, 'well, if you buy it, you're connected to him'. Smile.

    I'll do level 3 tomorrow maybe, or maybe later, since i had a snooze with my dog (hehe), so i feel pretty fresh!

    Take care
    Wayne
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    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Level 3 DVD

    Post by Milarepa Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:55 am

    I went through the level 3 DVD earlier. Like level 2, the setting was at the Pacific, and i was told to look into a crystal.

    Steve said that this would be the most powerful attunement yet. Whilst Steve would have been doing things around my head, i felt a cool breeze around my hands. I also felt sensations in my head. I can't say for sure it was symbols, it wasn't that pronounced, to be honest though, it was at the very least heading along those lines.

    When Steve would have been doing things in my palms, i did feel some tingling sensation. It was slight, but again, was more consistent with my usual initiation sensations, though not quite at that level of awareness.

    I felt more centered, and relaxed post-DVD.

    i'll go whip up a 'Conclusion' now.
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    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Conclusion

    Post by Milarepa Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:44 am

    Before i went through the experience of Steve Murray's DVD attunements, i'd many reservations about this kinda thing. The main one was whether the attunements would work, with the whole concept of student/teacher connection coming next.

    Experiences can vary among folks receiving attunements, even with the same person receiving them. With that said, i was still specifically looking for any perceived change (to a lesser feeling) in my awareness of the Reiki expereince. There was no change either way.

    Usually, i know when the symbols are being used, and where they're being put. It wasn't until Level 3 attunement that i began to feel some kind of sensation akin to this. Not as pronounced, but almost there, just short of me saying it outright.

    Through the 3 attunements, i felt centered, calm, relaxed & happy. i'm aware that meditatation can do this anyhow.

    Having had distant students myself (some are members here), i know they work, to some degree. At those times, there's been a spiritual connection made with the prospective student and the teacher. I still struggle to see how that is created & mantained in these DVD's.

    What do i think about the whole thing? Overall, the experience was very interesting. It was actually a quite enjoyable one. The DVD's are of high quality, and Steve is very clear, concise, and actually appealing, in a confident, friendly way. I beleive he sincerely believes in this method. Does it make someone a Reiki Master? I'd have to say no. Steve does encourage the student to go study as much as possible though.

    If, for whatever reason, a person can't see an in-person teacher, or (even more rarely) can't have the usual distant training, then the DVD's could be an interesting opening up into the world of energy therapy, vis a vis Reiki. Something does seem to be happening in the DVD's, although i can't say for sure what exactly. My views have been greatly shifted since this experience, and i feel if Steve would somehow encourage some personal contact with each person before the process, to create a clear connection individually, as well as perhaps offer more material, such as actual manuals included in his already very low price, then i genuinely feel that his method would be quite something.

    Would i recommend it? For sure. Despite not being convinced entirely of certain things, it was most definitely a pleasant journey, with some surpising effects. And with the low price, it's actually a bargain.

    Take care
    Wayne
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    Post by Dragonfly Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:39 pm

    Thanks for going through this process and sharing your findings and perspective. I guess the larger question here is - are we just learning Reiki this way so we can do hands-on healing or are we looking to embark on a deeper spiritual experience, which is at the heart of Reiki? If it's just to learn a technique, maybe the DVDs are sufficient, but if you're looking for something that is more life-changing, the in-person guidance of an experienced teacher may be more helpful.

    I recently decided to try the "Colours of Angels" attunement that a couple of Reiki Masters I'm acquainted with were doing. I was like you - curious to see how this would work if I was not physically present. And I felt like they were sincere people who do have a highly developed ability to sense Reiki. I didn't know what to expect, exactly, and when I received my Reiki attunements, I didn't necessarily notice or experience anything profound at the time (most of the things I observed happened afterward.) So, I did this attunement and I noticed maybe a mild sensation of energetic pressure at the time scheduled. Afterward, I followed the directions provided and it seemed like I could sense the energetic connection to the archangels a bit stronger than I had previously, but again, nothing dramatic. I was in a very peaceful, positive mood that night but the next day, my mood was quite dark as if I was sloughing off something (the RMs who sent me the attunement expressed some surprise at this, but actually it did not surprise me.) The following day after that, I felt good again. Overall, I do sense a somewhat more intense energetic connection but as of yet, nothing that knocks my socks off. But I don't feel cheated by the experience.
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    Post by Lambs-Wool Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:02 pm

    Hi Wayne Smile

    i dont know about Steve Murray DVD attunements, in early days of my reiki introduction, i happened to visit a site with someone called "Martin" (i dont exactly remember the name though)

    i was reiki 1 then... and the attunements were level 1 through 3... what i remember remarkably that the attunements (or whatever we can techcnically call them) were intense, and very visibly felt...

    the rapport between a teacher and student is a very important pillar in learning process, quite agreed, but when we come to the point that whether attunements of the nature like this DO or DO NOT actually work, we have to come straight to the question in either YES or NO, without referring to iffs and butts, and without discussing the surrounding conditionalities...

    a very generous, and very honest appraisal of the whole process by the way Wayne Smile you have approached the question with a neutral mind, and have concluded the experinece in step by step manner... congrats!

    i've to pose a question here that when a master acquires an ability/permission to attune others, does he acquire open permission, means that anywhere written in the reiki literature or in memoirs of reiki peers that a master ought to know the names or the specific identities among a list of persons, of people he is going to attune??


    today it has been customary that certain rituals/steps have been taken as SOP's for doing an attunement, but going back in history, we find them to be of a later import... they have been devised by reiki masters out of convenience, effectiveness, preference, and so on... and had not been made a 'condition-precedent' in the times of Hyashi Sensei or Takata Sensei...


    suppose i m a very profound, effective, elevated (....so on Smile ) reiki master... one day when i wake up i m stricken by a novel idea... what i do, is to construct an arch outside my house, and sorta 'program' it that anybody who will pass through that arch from 7.00 am to 9.00 am in the morning, he will get attunements to level one... and who passes through 11.00 am to 12.00 noon, he will get attunements to level 2, provided he had level 1 attunements already....


    does anyone of the peers has such 'permission' to 'initiate' events, surrounding, conditions, time spans, places, etc. with a mind that such things (per initiation) will pass on initiations to human beings getting in touch with them under 'specified' circumstances ?


    in some theological systems such type of 'delegated intiations' do hold vouge!


    take care

    Smile
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    Post by Milarepa Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:34 pm

    Hi buddy,
    I was just about to go do some practices, but you're post is once again a very interesting one, so i gotta be involved in such a juicy topic!

    Lambs-Wool wrote:Hi Wayne Smile

    i dont know about Steve Murray DVD attunements, in early days of my reiki introduction, i happened to visit a site with someone called "Martin" (i dont exactly remember the name though)

    i was reiki 1 then... and the attunements were level 1 through 3... what i remember remarkably that the attunements (or whatever we can techcnically call them) were intense, and very visibly felt...

    I've invited Steve to give a response ot my review, in the interest of fairness, and i'm really pleased he's gonna do this. He's working on some publications atm, but will do a detailed one soon.

    Martin Lee is the guy you're speaking of, i tried them also. Martin used to at least say he'd attune via distance but if you wanted a manual you'd have to pay for it. I take issue with that tbh. The Reiki initiation, although cheapened by many is actually a major event, and a big deal in a persons spirituality. To enter into this process with another, with no support prior or even after (unless one pays) is wrong. The teacher won't support the student unless they pay for the manual, so why attune them then if we aren't prepared to give the support also for free.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    the rapport between a teacher and student is a very important pillar in learning process, quite agreed, but when we come to the point that whether attunements of the nature like this DO or DO NOT actually work, we have to come straight to the question in either YES or NO, without referring to iffs and butts, and without discussing the surrounding conditionalities...

    The initiations via distance do work. As to how long-lsating they are, or the quality of the connection, that's another question.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    a very generous, and very honest appraisal of the whole process by the way Wayne Smile you have approached the question with a neutral mind, and have concluded the experinece in step by step manner... congrats!

    thanks buddy. I did have the mindset of not agreeing with DVD attunements, but wanted to give a fair chance at the whole thing.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    i've to pose a question here that when a master acquires an ability/permission to attune others, does he acquire open permission, means that anywhere written in the reiki literature or in memoirs of reiki peers that a master ought to know the names or the specific identities among a list of persons, of people he is going to attune??

    This goes to what a Reiki initiaton is. The initiations are from esoteric buddhist practices, and are passed down in person, transfering consciousness/ability that way. The cornerstone of the Reiki path is mindfullness, in ways HSZSN is most important. We simply can't have the spiritual focus required is we can't know whom the person is. sure, if i know a name, age, etc, i can pass on some consciousness. If i got a photo it's better still. If though, i can do it in person, i can focus so, so much easier on the person, i'm much more mindful in the process, i actually couldn't get anymore mindful/focussed.

    This ties in with my point two paragraphs up. I suspect, if a survey was done that folks whom had distance training first, then in-person training, noticed a big difference with the in-person training. I was one of them. Looking at any one aspect of both types of training isn't enough, in general is more useful for each individual.

    The point being, i suspect the more focussed/mindful we are during initiation th emore easily consciousness is trasnferred.

    It's maybe interesting that Willie Rand got some psychics to look at distant attunements. He's said on his site that the farther away a person is, the more 'weaker' it looks.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    today it has been customary that certain rituals/steps have been taken as SOP's for doing an attunement, but going back in history, we find them to be of a later import... they have been devised by reiki masters out of convenience, effectiveness, preference, and so on... and had not been made a 'condition-precedent' in the times of Hyashi Sensei or Takata Sensei...

    The concept of in-person spiritual empowerment has been handed down for centuries right down to the Master students of Takata sensei. I suspect it's the students of Takata sensei's students that began the distanct initiations.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    suppose i m a very profound, effective, elevated (....so on Smile ) reiki master... one day when i wake up i m stricken by a novel idea... what i do, is to construct an arch outside my house, and sorta 'program' it that anybody who will pass through that arch from 7.00 am to 9.00 am in the morning, he will get attunements to level one... and who passes through 11.00 am to 12.00 noon, he will get attunements to level 2, provided he had level 1 attunements already....


    does anyone of the peers has such 'permission' to 'initiate' events, surrounding, conditions, time spans, places, etc. with a mind that such things (per initiation) will pass on initiations to human beings getting in touch with them under 'specified' circumstances ?

    I'm glad you made this point, Smile. It shouldn't be done, imo. that simple. We've got no earthly or spiritual mandate to initiate another into a spiritual experience without their knowledge. This is kinda like the crusades. christianity forced onto muslims whether they liked it or not. It's the same concept, only by stealth.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    in some theological systems such type of 'delegated intiations' do hold vouge!

    Yeah, if the people passing through the arch know what it represents, Smile.

    Even if they do know what it represents, there's the issue of focus/mindfullness which a student is entitled to recieve from a teacher during initiation.

    One last thing, Smile. There's an idea (which may or may not be true) that a persons lifepan can be shortened by the more folks they initiate in spiritual ways such as this. This could be cause we're transfering some of our divine consciousness, but cause it's divine doesn't means we've got an unlimited amount. It's our small allocated part fo divinity.

    Warmest wishes
    Wayne
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    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Re: Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements

    Post by Lambs-Wool Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:37 pm

    hi Wayne Smile

    something again about issues of post-initian support !


    The Reiki initiation, although cheapened by many is actually a major event, and a big deal in a persons spirituality. To enter into this process with another, with no support prior or even after (unless one pays) is wrong. The teacher won't support the student unless they pay for the manual, so why attune them then if we aren't prepared to give the support also for free.

    that may invite some associated questions also... there are many people who have come to reiki just to experience 'how does it feels to have reiki experience'..... a person who is entering the field has yet to experience the gifts, and moreso, has to place a value on the experience he has just received through reiki attunement.... it might shut down the entry of many new incomers into the field if we raise the entry fee, since if somebody does not know what he is going to acquire through reiki initiation, how we would convince him to pay hefty sum before initiation, and for initiation...


    for me, its even okay to attune people just for level one for free... maybe if i attune 100 such people, 5 or ten of them might then feel 'stuck' to reiki onwards... and if some of those guys come to me for post-attunement support, i have a right to charge them some money, since now they have made an 'informed' decision that they are going forward in their pursuit of reiki...

    for the rest 90, who had taken the experience for experience sake, i would have not charged them anything, thats fine for them, but this should must then be fine for me also, since this approach has given me 10 confirmed attunees, and some of whom might develop themselves into high level masters in future...

    so attuning for free is to let people know about reiki, let the people experience about reiki... isnt this a common practice in our lives, that when we come to purchase a new product, we have a trial period with fully money back guarantee... in reiki, since the product cannot be reversed (de-attunement), what about people who want their money back since they dont like reiki after expereincing it... the best approach in that would be to attune them, without charging.. so that if they stick to the reiki, offer them support for a charge, if they dont, they haven't paid anything already!





    from my post:

    the rapport between a teacher and student is a very important pillar in learning process, quite agreed, but when we come to the point that whether attunements of the nature like this DO or DO NOT actually work, we have to come straight to the question in either YES or NO, without referring to iffs and butts, and without discussing the surrounding conditionalities...

    From your reply :

    The initiations via distance do work. As to how long-lsating they are, or the quality of the connection, that's another question.


    Wayne, in denju initiations, they are spposed to last for ever, and if they sorta 'fade out' they are supposed to NOT have been ever made... and this was the point i raised... as far as i know about reiki initiations, i hold belief that either they are done, or they are not.... the longitivity, the effects, etc. are something that is more associated with the attunee, than the teacher's ability...

    so we have to come straight to our earlier question "whether attunements of Steve Murray through DVD are possible or not, leaving the side issues of post-attunement support, the onwards reiki experiences, etc etc.





    From my post :

    i've to pose a question here that when a master acquires an ability/permission to attune others, does he acquire open permission, means that anywhere written in the reiki literature or in memoirs of reiki peers that a master ought to know the names or the specific identities among a list of persons, of people he is going to attune??


    From your reply :

    This goes to what a Reiki initiaton is. The initiations are from esoteric buddhist practices, and are passed down in person, transfering consciousness/ability that way. The cornerstone of the Reiki path is mindfullness, in ways HSZSN is most important. We simply can't have the spiritual focus required is we can't know whom the person is. sure, if i know a name, age, etc, i can pass on some consciousness. If i got a photo it's better still. If though, i can do it in person, i can focus so, so much easier on the person, i'm much more mindful in the process, i actually couldn't get anymore mindful/focussed.

    This ties in with my point two paragraphs up. I suspect, if a survey was done that folks whom had distance training first, then in-person training, noticed a big difference with the in-person training. I was one of them. Looking at any one aspect of both types of training isn't enough, in general is more useful for each individual.

    The point being, i suspect the more focussed/mindful we are during initiation th emore easily consciousness is trasnferred.

    It's maybe interesting that Willie Rand got some psychics to look at distant attunements. He's said on his site that the farther away a person is, the more 'weaker' it looks.

    if you would allow me to post some additional thoughts here... initiations are, by all means, from esoteric buddhist practices, but the way we do initiations, are rather an offshoot from the japanese culture and traditions... if Reiki had stuck to those traditions, all we would be having, would be reiju empowerments... the process of initiations, it seems, has been devised to transfer the ability in a speedy and direct (not necessarily in an 'as effective') way.... from whatever we find from literature we all know that symbols (and hence denju initiations) were of a later import... seems plausible to assume that Usui Sensei, when felt the need to transfer the healing art to Imperial Navy Officers, empowered symbols for that purpose... symbols were primarily meant for people, it seems, who were not under the direct spiritual guidance and training of Usui or of his trained masters...


    having that being set as an objective, why would Usui had left the initiations to be dependent on the quality/mindfulness/spiritual status of the master ? i feel he didnt include the conditions like 'mindfulness', 'spiritual attention' of the master while 'devising' his package... all these things were taken/assumed by him to be 'add-ons', the more the better, but not necessarily as 'conditions precedent' for an attunement to take place...

    Well, William rand might have good reasons for the belief, saved this, but i feel this primarily goes against the very notion of HSZSN... if we allow for the remoteness or closeness between the master and the attunee, to have any effect on the 'quality' of attunement, then what we are actually doing? we are introducing 'time and space' into the concept... one which owes its very existence in a freedom from the concepts of time and space...



    summing up, as far as the factual occurrence of an attunement being or not being done, is concerned, i have to say that this has litle nexus with the mindfulness of the master... if the master had intended to attune the student, and he had the right lineage, the student would invaribly be attuned, no matter to how much degree he or his student were mindful...


    but here, i have to input another thought... i feel when a master attunes/initiates a student, he he hands down not only the spirituality/consciousness/ability of Usui Sensei, he also hands down the the sum total of the spirituality all the ancestral members of his lineage (inlcuding his own) to the student, and this might account for the fact that initiations by different masters have a different flavour Smile


    the beauty of reiki, as i have felt it in comparison with other systems, is that it does not call for a long list of conditions in order to be effective, unless our ego, our knowledge, our mastery tone dictates something to be necessarily added to the list...


    wouldnt be a wild idea if you could attune me for mastership so that i myself experience the things fist hand instead of making fanciful assumptions all the time Smile


    The concept of in-person spiritual empowerment has been handed down for centuries right down to the Master students of Takata sensei. I suspect it's the students of Takata sensei's students that began the distanct initiations.




    From my post :

    suppose i m a very profound, effective, elevated (....so on ) reiki master... one day when i wake up i m stricken by a novel idea... what i do, is to construct an arch outside my house, and sorta 'program' it that anybody who will pass through that arch from 7.00 am to 9.00 am in the morning, he will get attunements to level one... and who passes through 11.00 am to 12.00 noon, he will get attunements to level 2, provided he had level 1 attunements already....


    does anyone of the peers has such 'permission' to 'initiate' events, surrounding, conditions, time spans, places, etc. with a mind that such things (per initiation) will pass on initiations to human beings getting in touch with them under 'specified' circumstances ?

    From your reply :

    I'm glad you made this point, . It shouldn't be done, imo. that simple. We've got no earthly or spiritual mandate to initiate another into a spiritual experience without their knowledge. This is kinda like the crusades. christianity forced onto muslims whether they liked it or not. It's the same concept, only by stealth.


    Even if they do know what it represents, there's the issue of focus/mindfullness which a student is entitled to recieve from a teacher during initiation.



    this aspect is one on which i m bit unclear as i have discussed in the preceding paragraph.
    Smile



    One last thing, . There's an idea (which may or may not be true) that a persons lifepan can be shortened by the more folks they initiate in spiritual ways such as this. This could be cause we're transfering some of our divine consciousness, but cause it's divine doesn't means we've got an unlimited amount. It's our small allocated part fo divinity.



    well, our 'quota' of divinity is something already dynamic ( i believe so ) Smile


    there might be imbalances of energies/spiritual evolvement that sometimes has detrimental effects on the the people who have attained a certain spiritual height....

    it happens with many people, and in our eastern thoughts, here is when we speicifically require the help of a guru, so that we could attain a meaningful balance....

    always we have to keep in mind that we human beings were 'programmed' to do a lot of things at the same time, and threfore, we have to face the music whenever we tilt totally towards one side of the balance, whether it be spirituality or materiality Smile


    balance is beautiful, and to keep balance is sometimes so simple too !


    take care

    salman
    Milarepa
    Milarepa
    Forum Founder
    Forum Founder


    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Re: Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements

    Post by Milarepa Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:46 pm

    Lambs-Wool wrote:hi Wayne Smile

    something again about issues of post-initian support !


    The Reiki initiation, although cheapened by many is actually a major event, and a big deal in a persons spirituality. To enter into this process with another, with no support prior or even after (unless one pays) is wrong. The teacher won't support the student unless they pay for the manual, so why attune them then if we aren't prepared to give the support also for free.

    that may invite some associated questions also... there are many people who have come to reiki just to experience 'how does it feels to have reiki experience'..... a person who is entering the field has yet to experience the gifts, and moreso, has to place a value on the experience he has just received through reiki attunement.... it might shut down the entry of many new incomers into the field if we raise the entry fee, since if somebody does not know what he is going to acquire through reiki initiation, how we would convince him to pay hefty sum before initiation, and for initiation...

    By providing treatments, Smile. Besides, it's not up to teachers to convince folks to be initiated. If folks want to learn Reiki, they come to us, all we can do is give them tasters, or tell them about benefits.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    for me, its even okay to attune people just for level one for free... maybe if i attune 100 such people, 5 or ten of them might then feel 'stuck' to reiki onwards... and if some of those guys come to me for post-attunement support, i have a right to charge them some money, since now they have made an 'informed' decision that they are going forward in their pursuit of reiki...

    for the rest 90, who had taken the experience for experience sake, i would have not charged them anything, thats fine for them, but this should must then be fine for me also, since this approach has given me 10 confirmed attunees, and some of whom might develop themselves into high level masters in future...

    so attuning for free is to let people know about reiki, let the people experience about reiki... isnt this a common practice in our lives, that when we come to purchase a new product, we have a trial period with fully money back guarantee... in reiki, since the product cannot be reversed (de-attunement), what about people who want their money back since they dont like reiki after expereincing it... the best approach in that would be to attune them, without charging.. so that if they stick to the reiki, offer them support for a charge, if they dont, they haven't paid anything already!

    It's not about initiating them for free or otherwise. It's about not giving support prior, during or afterwards. Any teacher who doesn't do this is being irresponsible. A Reiki initiation is a hugh deal spiritually, and also can be emotionally, even physically, the proper support must be there. This is why most credible Reiki organisations simply won't accept distance training at all. there's no standards.



    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    From your reply :

    The initiations via distance do work. As to how long-lsating they are, or the quality of the connection, that's another question.


    Wayne, in denju initiations, they are spposed to last for ever, and if they sorta 'fade out' they are supposed to NOT have been ever made... and this was the point i raised... as far as i know about reiki initiations, i hold belief that either they are done, or they are not.... the longitivity, the effects, etc. are something that is more associated with the attunee, than the teacher's ability...

    Just cause many assume they last 'forever' doesn't mean they do. You're assuming all connections to something is connection to the Reiki experience, and that it's connected at the same level. There's many factors that come into play with how pronounced a Reiki experience is, Smile.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    From your reply :

    This goes to what a Reiki initiaton is. The initiations are from esoteric buddhist practices, and are passed down in person, transfering consciousness/ability that way. The cornerstone of the Reiki path is mindfullness, in ways HSZSN is most important. We simply can't have the spiritual focus required is we can't know whom the person is. sure, if i know a name, age, etc, i can pass on some consciousness. If i got a photo it's better still. If though, i can do it in person, i can focus so, so much easier on the person, i'm much more mindful in the process, i actually couldn't get anymore mindful/focussed.

    This ties in with my point two paragraphs up. I suspect, if a survey was done that folks whom had distance training first, then in-person training, noticed a big difference with the in-person training. I was one of them. Looking at any one aspect of both types of training isn't enough, in general is more useful for each individual.

    The point being, i suspect the more focussed/mindful we are during initiation th emore easily consciousness is trasnferred.

    It's maybe interesting that Willie Rand got some psychics to look at distant attunements. He's said on his site that the farther away a person is, the more 'weaker' it looks.

    if you would allow me to post some additional thoughts here... initiations are, by all means, from esoteric buddhist practices, but the way we do initiations, are rather an offshoot from the japanese culture and traditions... if Reiki had stuck to those traditions, all we would be having, would be reiju empowerments...

    Not so. Just cause we're not aware of the esoteric significance doesn't mean we're still not doing it. Most of the major initiations are using buddhist concepts in the actual initiation! Teachers just don't realise it.

    It's spread about a lot 'Reiju' pre-dated Denju, that doesn't matter. IMO it was Usui sensei that created the Denju type initiation. This is cause his student passed on a system (that was clearly identified as Usui sensei's) to Takata sensei.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    the process of initiations, it seems, has been devised to transfer the ability in a speedy and direct (not necessarily in an 'as effective') way.... from whatever we find from literature we all know that symbols (and hence denju initiations) were of a later import... seems plausible to assume that Usui Sensei, when felt the need to transfer the healing art to Imperial Navy Officers, empowered symbols for that purpose... symbols were primarily meant for people, it seems, who were not under the direct spiritual guidance and training of Usui or of his trained masters...

    This is said by a few, and many accept it (navy point you make). Perhaps if i write a book also, become famous, my words will have value, hehe, Smile. It's very plausible that as Reiki grew, Usui sensei couldn't travel to teach as many folks. Perhaps he was able to think ahead, and knowing that there were only a handful of teachers, he needed to create a way in which the full teachings of Reikiwould be transferred, both the actual consciousness and the theoretical study. Enter the symbols! So yeah, you're latter point is plausible.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    having that being set as an objective, why would Usui had left the initiations to be dependent on the quality/mindfulness/spiritual status of the master ? i feel he didnt include the conditions like 'mindfulness', 'spiritual attention' of the master while 'devising' his package... all these things were taken/assumed by him to be 'add-ons', the more the better, but not necessarily as 'conditions precedent' for an attunement to take place...

    We gotta get outt our own mindset here, Smile. THe HSZSN symbol is about mindfullness, so mindfullness was very important. In esoteric buddhism (as indeed all buddhism) it's integral. In many spiritual path, mindfullness is the first step. This is why spiritual empowerments are done in-person. do we really think that Usui sensei & folks never knew of the ability to distanct attune! He knew more about the symbols power than any of us. These were'nt illiterate folks eating rice all day. They lived & breathed spiritual experiences & study. There's a reason then why as Reiki became more popular Usui sensei still didn'rt do distance initiations...

    It's about the quality of the whole thing.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    Well, William rand might have good reasons for the belief, saved this, but i feel this primarily goes against the very notion of HSZSN... if we allow for the remoteness or closeness between the master and the attunee, to have any effect on the 'quality' of attunement, then what we are actually doing? we are introducing 'time and space' into the concept... one which owes its very existence in a freedom from the concepts of time and space...

    There's a meaning of HSZSN which is wrong in many ways, imo. that it measn, 'no time, no space' etc. Whilst it's true that all is connected, for creation to mantain it's individual integrity (which is essential for order in the universe), there must be different forms. it's not as easy as us reading a book and seeing 'all is connected' and properly knowing it's so.

    Why's it not easy? Cause we'll read a book, and say ah, ok i get it. We don;t really. Cause it goes against our life-long beleifs, and not jkust ours, it goes against our ancestors who have passed on consciousness in our dna. so even though i know logically all is connected, deep within me there's much to say otherwise, which affects the distance attunement. IMO this one of the factors of the top of my head.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    summing up, as far as the factual occurrence of an attunement being or not being done, is concerned, i have to say that this has litle nexus with the mindfulness of the master... if the master had intended to attune the student, and he had the right lineage, the student would invaribly be attuned, no matter to how much degree he or his student were mindful...

    you're might be missing major points of Reiki being a spiritual path then, Smile. In all religions & most other spiritual paths, mindfullness is very important. Like i've mentioned, HSZSN is a call to mindfullness, so how do we initiate a call to mindfullness and feel it un-important to be mindful?

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    but here, i have to input another thought... i feel when a master attunes/initiates a student, he he hands down not only the spirituality/consciousness/ability of Usui Sensei, he also hands down the the sum total of the spirituality all the ancestral members of his lineage (inlcuding his own) to the student, and this might account for the fact that initiations by different masters have a different flavour Smile

    Sure, i said that the other day here buddy, hehe, Smile.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    the beauty of reiki, as i have felt it in comparison with other systems, is that it does not call for a long list of conditions in order to be effective, unless our ego, our knowledge, our mastery tone dictates something to be necessarily added to the list...

    If a person wants things simple, they can for sure pass something on. If a person studies, discovers, it's still very simple, but it changes perception, and this changes deepth. what makes it seem complicated is that it's going against our deep set beliefs we've got from our peers. So we resist it, and our ego then says its' wrong, and it might actually be the other persons ego! I know what way you feel with what i've wrote, and i know this paragraph happens cause it happened to me, and still does happen. So we're in good company with one another, hehe.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    wouldnt be a wild idea if you could attune me for mastership so that i myself experience the things fist hand instead of making fanciful assumptions all the time Smile

    Unfrotunately i can't, Sad. It would have been a real honour to go through the whole thing with you, especially as i feel so close to you already drear frend! I'm at a point where i can't distance attune anymore. I'm being very lucky and am gonna get training i've wanted for 5 years now, but i can't be a part of distance training. Have you not got Master training yet? I could maybe make some enquiries and look for a real good person for you, and you could decide? sorry i cant' do it myself, Sad.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    From my post :

    suppose i m a very profound, effective, elevated (....so on ) reiki master... one day when i wake up i m stricken by a novel idea... what i do, is to construct an arch outside my house, and sorta 'program' it that anybody who will pass through that arch from 7.00 am to 9.00 am in the morning, he will get attunements to level one... and who passes through 11.00 am to 12.00 noon, he will get attunements to level 2, provided he had level 1 attunements already....


    does anyone of the peers has such 'permission' to 'initiate' events, surrounding, conditions, time spans, places, etc. with a mind that such things (per initiation) will pass on initiations to human beings getting in touch with them under 'specified' circumstances ?

    From your reply :

    I'm glad you made this point, . It shouldn't be done, imo. that simple. We've got no earthly or spiritual mandate to initiate another into a spiritual experience without their knowledge. This is kinda like the crusades. christianity forced onto muslims whether they liked it or not. It's the same concept, only by stealth.


    Even if they do know what it represents, there's the issue of focus/mindfullness which a student is entitled to recieve from a teacher during initiation.



    this aspect is one on which i m bit unclear as i have discussed in the preceding paragraph.
    Smile


    Are you speaking of folks walking throught the arch knowing they'd be attuned, or not knowing?

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    One last thing, . There's an idea (which may or may not be true) that a persons lifepan can be shortened by the more folks they initiate in spiritual ways such as this. This could be cause we're transfering some of our divine consciousness, but cause it's divine doesn't means we've got an unlimited amount. It's our small allocated part fo divinity.



    well, our 'quota' of divinity is something already dynamic ( i believe so ) Smile


    there might be imbalances of energies/spiritual evolvement that sometimes has detrimental effects on the the people who have attained a certain spiritual height....

    it happens with many people, and in our eastern thoughts, here is when we speicifically require the help of a guru, so that we could attain a meaningful balance....

    always we have to keep in mind that we human beings were 'programmed' to do a lot of things at the same time, and threfore, we have to face the music whenever we tilt totally towards one side of the balance, whether it be spirituality or materiality Smile


    balance is beautiful, and to keep balance is sometimes so simple too !


    take care

    salman

    Yeah, there was a lot of thought around th etime of Usui sensei, and slightly after that Reiki and the such could bring about early death, and heart attacks. Course, don;t let that put anyone off, hehe, sooner i go on the next adventrue the better, hehe!

    Warmest wishes
    Wayne
    Lambs-Wool
    Lambs-Wool
    Global Moderator
    Global Moderator


    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Re: Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements

    Post by Lambs-Wool Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:24 pm

    Milarepa wrote:
    It's not about initiating them for free or otherwise. It's about not giving support prior, during or afterwards. Any teacher who doesn't do this is being irresponsible. A Reiki initiation is a hugh deal spiritually, and also can be emotionally, even physically, the proper support must be there. This is why most credible Reiki organisations simply won't accept distance training at all. there's no standards.

    well, then such 'credible' reiki organizations must install a system of examination plus viva voce questions plus lab test system, so that they are 'justified' in rejecting that 'distant' work is no work at all Smile

    i often feel that since reiki have established itself quite visibly as a wonderful modaility, there should be some system of formal education in some university, where we have a set curriculum, examinations, hands-on training and so on...

    i dont know if such universities or institiutions already exist...


    this would further raise the questions of inter-institution recognition of degrees, and transfer of credits, and stuff like that... i dunno what arrangement have already in vogue in this respect...

    Milarepa wrote:
    Just cause many assume they last 'forever' doesn't mean they do. You're assuming all connections to something is connection to the Reiki experience, and that it's connected at the same level. There's many factors that come into play with how pronounced a Reiki experience is, Smile.

    well, i was in belief that reiki attunements do hold good forever even if a person never visits to reiki interests for a big gap... is it a matter of 'many assume' or a matter of explicit announcement by some reiki peers ? since there might be difference between the two...


    secondly, what i feel is that a reiki experience never occurs in an isolated vacuum chamber... the triggering factor, the reiki experince, is the same for everybody, but what is then triggered, is of course dependent on various factors, and of them, a persons' unique spiriutality is of importance...

    here, you and me are talking one same thing, but since the facade is different, i m feeling that i m not agreeing with you Smile

    Milarepa wrote:
    Not so. Just cause we're not aware of the esoteric significance doesn't mean we're still not doing it. Most of the major initiations are using buddhist concepts in the actual initiation! Teachers just don't realise it.

    It's spread about a lot 'Reiju' pre-dated Denju, that doesn't matter. IMO it was Usui sensei that created the Denju type initiation. This is cause his student passed on a system (that was clearly identified as Usui sensei's) to Takata sensei.

    point taken Wayne Smile sure denju initiations innately follow the same spirituality of Usui that he would be offering in reiju empowerments, but since the apparent arrangement is suggesting differently, we land on conclusions like i shared earlier.. i will think on that and will come back to you for further sharing Smile

    Milarepa wrote:
    This is said by a few, and many accept it (navy point you make). Perhaps if i write a book also, become famous, my words will have value, hehe, Smile. It's very plausible that as Reiki grew, Usui sensei couldn't travel to teach as many folks. Perhaps he was able to think ahead, and knowing that there were only a handful of teachers, he needed to create a way in which the full teachings of Reikiwould be transferred, both the actual consciousness and the theoretical study. Enter the symbols! So yeah, you're latter point is plausible.

    you see, we make assumptions where we found history sitting silent over the 'causes' of some things Smile (i think this is a part of our training too )...

    Milarepa wrote:
    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    having that being set as an objective, why would Usui had left the initiations to be dependent on the quality/mindfulness/spiritual status of the master ? i feel he didnt include the conditions like 'mindfulness', 'spiritual attention' of the master while 'devising' his package... all these things were taken/assumed by him to be 'add-ons', the more the better, but not necessarily as 'conditions precedent' for an attunement to take place...

    We gotta get outt our own mindset here, Smile. THe HSZSN symbol is about mindfullness, so mindfullness was very important. In esoteric buddhism (as indeed all buddhism) it's integral. In many spiritual path, mindfullness is the first step. This is why spiritual empowerments are done in-person. do we really think that Usui sensei & folks never knew of the ability to distanct attune! He knew more about the symbols power than any of us. These were'nt illiterate folks eating rice all day. They lived & breathed spiritual experiences & study. There's a reason then why as Reiki became more popular Usui sensei still didn'rt do distance initiations...

    It's about the quality of the whole thing.

    this point holds merit, and i agree to that... HSZSN is about mindfulness, and mindfulness is often a key to connection... so HSZSN is a key to connection too, as we have a general belief... but here, we have to make one point very straight Wayne... the power of symobls also vests in their ability to override, bypass, or not-follow the generally held principles in spirituality... so what if i say here that HSZSN has the ability to make connection even when one is not mindful ??


    that Usui didnt 'officialise" distant attunements may be due to the facts you mentioned in your above quote, but may also be due to the fact that he didnt felt the need as yet, since in his times, his system was not as expanded as we find it today...

    so it might also be due to the fact that he sort of 'kept silence' over the issue of distant attunements, since he believed that alternatives were well available in the surroundings he belonged to... do we have to necessarily take his 'silence' as a token of his 'disapproval' Smile ??



    Milarepa wrote:
    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    Well, William rand might have good reasons for the belief, saved this, but i feel this primarily goes against the very notion of HSZSN... if we allow for the remoteness or closeness between the master and the attunee, to have any effect on the 'quality' of attunement, then what we are actually doing? we are introducing 'time and space' into the concept... one which owes its very existence in a freedom from the concepts of time and space...

    There's a meaning of HSZSN which is wrong in many ways, imo. that it measn, 'no time, no space' etc. Whilst it's true that all is connected, for creation to mantain it's individual integrity (which is essential for order in the universe), there must be different forms. it's not as easy as us reading a book and seeing 'all is connected' and properly knowing it's so.

    Why's it not easy? Cause we'll read a book, and say ah, ok i get it. We don;t really. Cause it goes against our life-long beleifs, and not jkust ours, it goes against our ancestors who have passed on consciousness in our dna. so even though i know logically all is connected, deep within me there's much to say otherwise, which affects the distance attunement. IMO this one of the factors of the top of my head.

    well Wayne, interesting the phrase 'no time, no space' holds our attention immediately since by allowing this phrase to enter the acceptance region, we often giving ourselves a freeway to feel GOD ( a latent, hidden desire of almost all people, save who have perception of this universal dilemma of humankind)...

    time and space are not necessarily to be done away with... we often hear 'transending' time and space, and this sometimes becomes our prime objective... what we fail to realise in sying this phrase is that our basic realm owes its existence to time and space.... had there been no time and space, there been no us... thats simple... so being 'bounded' in time and space is not a curse to be overcome, rather it is a beauty of our own existence, which we have to take as a beauty and not otherwise Smile

    i have to refer that Allah in Holy Quran has sworne on "TIME" and how a thing can be sworn at who has a relative existence only Smile ??


    Milarepa wrote:
    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    summing up, as far as the factual occurrence of an attunement being or not being done, is concerned, i have to say that this has litle nexus with the mindfulness of the master... if the master had intended to attune the student, and he had the right lineage, the student would invaribly be attuned, no matter to how much degree he or his student were mindful...

    you're might be missing major points of Reiki being a spiritual path then, Smile. In all religions & most other spiritual paths, mindfullness is very important. Like i've mentioned, HSZSN is a call to mindfullness, so how do we initiate a call to mindfullness and feel it un-important to be mindful?


    no im not missing the points of mindfulness Smile you already know that i have felt flavours of reiki just through mindfulness in the very beginning of my travel here... what i was referring to in my questions that what is the rule here ? if a master was not mindful to the required standard while doing initiation ( lets talk initiating for level one), what is the final outcome... did he, or didn't he successfully initiated the student into reiki through that episode... ?

    here we have to come straight to answers like YES or NO Smile !

    Milarepa wrote:
    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    the beauty of reiki, as i have felt it in comparison with other systems, is that it does not call for a long list of conditions in order to be effective, unless our ego, our knowledge, our mastery tone dictates something to be necessarily added to the list...

    If a person wants things simple, they can for sure pass something on. If a person studies, discovers, it's still very simple, but it changes perception, and this changes deepth. what makes it seem complicated is that it's going against our deep set beliefs we've got from our peers. So we resist it, and our ego then says its' wrong, and it might actually be the other persons ego! I know what way you feel with what i've wrote, and i know this paragraph happens cause it happened to me, and still does happen. So we're in good company with one another, hehe.

    very smart Wayne Smile love you!

    Milarepa wrote:
    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    wouldnt be a wild idea if you could attune me for mastership so that i myself experience the things fist hand instead of making fanciful assumptions all the time Smile

    Unfrotunately i can't, Sad. It would have been a real honour to go through the whole thing with you, especially as i feel so close to you already drear frend! I'm at a point where i can't distance attune anymore. I'm being very lucky and am gonna get training i've wanted for 5 years now, but i can't be a part of distance training. Have you not got Master training yet? I could maybe make some enquiries and look for a real good person for you, and you could decide? sorry i cant' do it myself, Sad.

    no i havent yet attained the master training Smile

    you know Wayne, i belong to the rich eastern culture, where a teacher holds a very high position, and especially in spiritual practices, it is more than that... going to another teacher unless we have completed with our previous one, gives us a feeling of something bad.. it is a mindset for me too Smile and i may not change it instantly...

    you've always been so kind, so generous and guiding, that i dont want any other teacher Smile if distant attunement is out of your acceptance at the present moment, i can safely wait for some more time, or it is possible that if i happen to gather some sum through a windfall or savings, i might see you in England and then request you do it in person Smile

    i'm in no hurry, i'm learing the basics still Smile

    take care

    salman
    Milarepa
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    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Re: Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements

    Post by Milarepa Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:43 pm

    Lambs-Wool wrote:

    well, then such 'credible' reiki organizations must install a system of examination plus viva voce questions plus lab test system, so that they are 'justified' in rejecting that 'distant' work is no work at all Smile

    It's the quality of training. You & I both know the attunement works. Hospitals for instance if they regard folks as having some kinda training online, well it's far inferior to anything they train in, even a small course.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    Milarepa wrote:
    Just cause many assume they last 'forever' doesn't mean they do. You're assuming all connections to something is connection to the Reiki experience, and that it's connected at the same level. There's many factors that come into play with how pronounced a Reiki experience is, Smile.

    well, i was in belief that reiki attunements do hold good forever even if a person never visits to reiki interests for a big gap... is it a matter of 'many assume' or a matter of explicit announcement by some reiki peers ? since there might be difference between the two...

    what i was trying to imply was that the experience mightn't be there enough for anyone to notice. It's a kinda interesting idea to throw up.. If when Hitler was live, and he got initiated into Reiki, could he easily use it? I know folks who talk of ULE must surely say, of course, since he would be ULE if he was alive. However, the more we improve ourselves spiritually, the better our connection to Reiki can be. The same must be true for the most evil folks in existence, that they would be opposite.


    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    this point holds merit, and i agree to that... HSZSN is about mindfulness, and mindfulness is often a key to connection... so HSZSN is a key to connection too, as we have a general belief... but here, we have to make one point very straight Wayne... the power of symobls also vests in their ability to override, bypass, or not-follow the generally held principles in spirituality... so what if i say here that HSZSN has the ability to make connection even when one is not mindful ??

    It doesn't happen, Smile. I'm real glad you said this though. This ties in with another topic i got, in fact, all my topics are always linked to each other, hehe. when i initiate you with HSZSN i place it within you. when you use HSZSN, you draw it outside of you. what makes the outside drawing of HSZSN work? The inside activation of it. This is done sub-consciously. your conscious act of drawing HSZSN triggers HSZSN within you. As HSZSN is mindfullness, it automatically triggers deep within your being mindfullness, you may not seem like your aware of it consciously, but it's the deep esoteric ability that lets you do what you do in Reiki. It's why we place symbols deep within us.

    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    that Usui didnt 'officialise" distant attunements may be due to the facts you mentioned in your above quote, but may also be due to the fact that he didnt felt the need as yet, since in his times, his system was not as expanded as we find it today...

    Perhaps, Smile. We gotta remember he had over 2000 students when he died, and form of transport in Japan to travel about so much wasn't exaclty a maserati, hehe.


    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    so it might also be due to the fact that he sort of 'kept silence' over the issue of distant attunements, since he believed that alternatives were well available in the surroundings he belonged to... do we have to necessarily take his 'silence' as a token of his 'disapproval' Smile ??

    Spiritual empowerments with lineage are done in-person. to my knowledge this has always been that way, not just with Usui sensei. Even Buddhists no will do it in-person. There must be a reason for this.


    Lambs-Wool wrote:
    no im not missing the points of mindfulness Smile you already know that i have felt flavours of reiki just through mindfulness in the very beginning of my travel here... what i was referring to in my questions that what is the rule here ? if a master was not mindful to the required standard while doing initiation ( lets talk initiating for level one), what is the final outcome... did he, or didn't he successfully initiated the student into reiki through that episode... ?

    here we have to come straight to answers like YES or NO Smile !

    He would have initiated the student into Reiki, but the depth (power) of that transfer of consciousness would not be at the leve of someone who devoted every part of their being to that intiation. and this in turn may weaken the depth of connection on down the lineage again. It's why, imo, folks who are distance attuned might go after loads & loads of attunements, cause the first one's they get simply don't feel enough.


    Lambs-Wool wrote:


    no i havent yet attained the master training Smile

    you know Wayne, i belong to the rich eastern culture, where a teacher holds a very high position, and especially in spiritual practices, it is more than that... going to another teacher unless we have completed with our previous one, gives us a feeling of something bad.. it is a mindset for me too Smile and i may not change it instantly...

    you've always been so kind, so generous and guiding, that i dont want any other teacher Smile if distant attunement is out of your acceptance at the present moment, i can safely wait for some more time, or it is possible that if i happen to gather some sum through a windfall or savings, i might see you in England and then request you do it in person Smile

    i'm in no hurry, i'm learing the basics still Smile

    you're right of course. We started this process, and should finish it if that's what you want. I got an objigation to you, Smile. I got a problem though. I'm gonna be trained in the way Usui Shiki Ryoho was meant to be, it's a huge honour for me, but i can't distance train in Usui Shiki Ryoho. Part of the reason for me own training is i'm gonna (in my own small way) dispel the inaccuracies about Takata sensei & Usui Shiki Ryoho. I feel such a strong bond to it, and actually love the idea of the system, but i can't do something that wasn't a part of that which i'm gonna redress.

    I've got stuff we can finish, Taggart Kings Shinpiden stuff, but you gotta be an existing teacher for that. i'll get some advice from a couple close freinds on here, and we'll continue with this in private if that's ok? thankyou for wanting me to be a small part in such a huge step, Smile.

    Warmest wishes
    Wayne
    Milarepa
    Milarepa
    Forum Founder
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    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Re: Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements

    Post by Milarepa Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:20 am

    Steve has kindly sent me an email, clarifying some things, and gave permission for it to be placed on site, which i really appreciate!


    I now have a new Reiki Video FAQ pages on my web site www.healingreiki.com. You can access the pages at the top left link on the home page. On these pages I answer various questions about Reiki and my beliefs about Reiki in a video format. The pages will be updated periodically with with answers from questions I receive from an email link on at the top of each page.



    My Reiki DVD(s) will pass Reiki Attunements and have done so successfully with tens of thousands of people throughout the world. The Reiki DVDs are also used for reinforcement of Reiki Attunements. The DVDs do have basic information on Reiki and the Reiki Symbols and how to use them. But, I could not put all the information needed for complete Reiki training on them. With this in mind, I authored five Reiki Ultimate Guides for my students and Reiki False Beliefs Exposed for All. Plus I produced the DVD A Reiki 1st, Aura and Chakra Attunement Performed that shows me performing several Reiki Attunements from the books.



    When people discuss my Reiki DVDs they tend to leave out that I have Reiki books that are meant to be used with the DVDs. Both make a complete and all encompassing Reiki certification program. It should be noted that my Reiki books sell around the world and more and more Reiki Masters are using the books in their own Reiki classes.



    Shanti

    Steve Murray
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    peaceweaver
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    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Worked for me!

    Post by peaceweaver Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:57 am

    I was skeptical, but tried it to be attuned to level 2 before I "officially" was by my master recently.

    It seemed to work! I was even able to do distance treatments for my friends.

    My friend, on the other hand, tried it to be attuned to level 1, and it didn't work for her.
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    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Re: Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements

    Post by Jazz Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:50 am

    I watched the level one attunement a while back.

    I felt very relaxed.  I also dreamt some strange symbols afterwards.  I can't remember what they were since I had very limited knowledge of Reiki at the time...

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    Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements Empty Re: Steve Murray DVD Reiki attunements

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