'Facts' & Assumptions...

I wanna take the chance to highlight some points that Wille Rand said about the 'Origins of Reiki' in his response to the Bishops view on Reiki at http://www.reiki.org/reikinews/ResponseBishopsStatement.html .

Wille Rand starts this section by saying that what Takata sensei said about Usui sensei discovering the secret of Reiki in Buddhist texts is untrue. What i have read myself is, Takata sensei said Usui sensei saw sanskrit text he had been studying in gold, glowing letters. There's a huge leap to then say that's untrue, and that 'breakthroughs' were made in the 1990's. That'd depend on ones perception of a 'breakthrough'.

The text goes on to mention Hiroshi Doi & Arjava Petter. It's interesting the Hikkei is mentioned as supportive 'facts' that Reiki comes from no religious background...

Between 1938 & 1940 Takata sensei was gave a copy of the Hayashi Ryoho Shishin, which incidentally looks very similar to the Hikkei. In fact, some think it may have been wrote by the same person originally. It's worth noting, that Hiroshi Doi, the single source contact for the Gakkai, is the one who provided us with the Hikkei in the first place. When Reiki practitioners eagerly devoured it's contents, it most certainly would have helped Doi's credibility, at least then. There's no proof that the Hikkei is actually genuine, imo. In fact, there seems to be something not right. Hatsurei ho plays prominence, yet Takata sensei wasn't taught it by Usui sensei's student. The Hikkei, that we were provided with in modern times, is so like the Hayashi Ryoho Shishin that one could be forgave if they thought it was almost copied from it! After all, the Hyashi book has been around at least for some 40 or 50 years prior to the appearance of the Hikkei.

There are, strong indications of aspects of Buddhism in the system of Reiki. The initiation procedure, and aspects of it, shows this. There are also tastes of Christianity. After all, Takata sensei called Reiki 'God power'.

Why would a spiritual path be comfortably taught that has aspects of esoteric Buddhism, yet still be able to easily accomodate some form of possible Christian concept of the divine, our indeed, be able to easily fit into any person's religion? Reiki seems to be able to fit any viewpoint. Perhaps, the system of Reiki was created by a person with many viewpoints. A person who actually followed various aspects of Buddhism & Christianity in one independant package itself? If the person who created the system of Reiki following aspects of different religions, and spiritual paths at once, would the style he created, not be able to mould itself into many varied belief systems also?

There's a difference between Reiki being non-religious, and Reiki having no religious aspects.

Take care
Wayne

Interesting stuff, Wayne.

I think it is very easy for subtle (and perhaps, not so subtle) bits of information to be lost in translation and over the course of years. It's like the child's game of telephone, where a message gets relayed and reinterpreted based on what the people in the telephone line hear. And we are also dealing with human ego and personal motives when it comes to sharing information. Remember, knowledge is power in a very real sense. I have been working in knowledge management at the corporate level for over 10 years. In my organization (as in other corporate cultures) there is always fear of sharing everything precisely because the person with the knowledge might lose their "edge" up on someone else within the organization. So they share just enough but that may not tell the whole story, and then as time goes on, there is a belief by the person who received the information that they had all the facts...and well, you can see where that leads to. It is a version of truth, but not perhaps the "real" or "whole" truth.

I would suspect that some of this has happened with Takata sensei and others over the years.

I guess the question I pose to you is, do you think what you consider to be misrepresentation on Rand's part to be intentional, and if so, why? What would he stand to gain?

Dragonfly wrote:

I guess the question I pose to you is, do you think what you consider to be misrepresentation on Rand's part to be intentional, and if so, why? What would he stand to gain?

although i don't know Wille Rand, i sense it's not as deliberate as others. Although, Wille has had a lot of business outta this kinda orginality stuff, .

take care
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:

although i don't know Wille Rand, i sense it's not as deliberate as others. Although, Wille has had a lot of business outta this kinda orginality stuff, .

Well, sure he has since he has made the teachings a bit more systematic, and created other forms of Reiki. At the same time, he has helped give Reiki more of a presence in the U.S. specifically.

I feel like we as a global community could benefit from a bit more structure at times and certainly it would be nice if there were more conferences aimed at bringing together the various communities to come to more understanding. I know there has been some of that done in the past but it seems to have fallen by the wayside.

Dragonfly wrote:

Well, sure he has since he has made the teachings a bit more systematic, and created other forms of Reiki. At the same time, he has helped give Reiki more of a presence in the U.S. specifically.

For sure, he's widened the coverage of Reiki. what i was sugesting is, he's the one who went to Japan, and done his research. If i'm able, in Ireland, to shed doubt on wille's 'Bishops text', within 20 mins, it seesm to me, he's also been took in as far as single soource contacts are concerned. One thing i do find in his favour, he hasn't came up with a single source contact himself. So, that's refreshing.

I'm not speaking about his version of Reiki, or his work here, just spitballing over 'facts'. .

take care
Wayne

[quote="Milarepa"]

Dragonfly wrote:

If i'm able, in Ireland, to shed doubt on wille's 'Bishops text', within 20 mins, it seesm to me, he's also been took in as far as single soource contacts are concerned. One thing i do find in his favour, he hasn't came up with a single source contact himself. So, that's refreshing.

I'm not speaking about his version of Reiki, or his work here, just spitballing over 'facts'. .

Oh, I see what you're saying now. I guess we all want to know what the "truth" is, and apparently, that is rather elusive, eh?

[quote="Dragonfly"]

Milarepa wrote:

Dragonfly wrote:

If i'm able, in Ireland, to shed doubt on wille's 'Bishops text', within 20 mins, it seesm to me, he's also been took in as far as single soource contacts are concerned. One thing i do find in his favour, he hasn't came up with a single source contact himself. So, that's refreshing.

I'm not speaking about his version of Reiki, or his work here, just spitballing over 'facts'. .

Oh, I see what you're saying now. I guess we all want to know what the "truth" is, and apparently, that is rather elusive, eh?

It's quite easy to read between the lines, and come up with an educated guess. for instance, Hatsurei ho is mentioned in prominence in the Hikkei. Yet Hayashi sensei didn't teach it to Takata sensei. Takata sensei alwys said she taught as she in turn was taught. And with Hayashi sensei being so principled, he ended his owqn life, i strongly feel for him to aknowledge Usui sensei is what he taught Takata sensei, could only mean one thing.

That Hatsurei ho wasn't taught.

Also, if we look at who provided the Hikkei, it's a single source Reiki contact. And surely did elevate Hiroshi with his Reiki peers. Now, with his name being weel known, he's grown a succesful Reiki school internationally.

What i found surprising was that in all Wille Rand's research, he hasn't seem to take into account Takata sensei was in Japan in 1976 teaching Reiki1. Takata sensei has been under the impression that Reiki had died out. It wasn't till quite a few years later, that Meiko Mitsui mentioned the Gakkai. And who told her? Yeah, Hiroshi. Since he was also learning Reiki from Mitsui, hehe. This new Japanese single source contact that came under the 'wing' of Barbera Rays school, mighta been quite a littel PR coup then. Against the Alliance.

Ahh, the intrique. .

take care
Wayne

Sorry if I come off as confrontational. This is my first post on this forum. I would like to have introduced myself first but felt strongly that I needed to respond to this.

What i found surprising was that in all Wille Rand's research, he hasn't seem to take into account Takata sensei was in Japan in 1976 teaching Reiki1. Takata sensei has been under the impression that Reiki had died out. It wasn't till quite a few years later, that Meiko Mitsui mentioned the Gakkai. And who told her? Yeah, Hiroshi. Since he was also learning Reiki from Mitsui, hehe. This new Japanese single source contact that came under the 'wing' of Barbera Rays school, mighta been quite a littel PR coup then. Against the Alliance.

Hayashi Sensei did teach HatsuRei-ho. There are many things that Takata Sensei left out for some reason or another. Why she did this, who knows, we can only speculate.

Proof for Hayashi Sensei teaching this can be found within the Jikiden Reiki. HatsuRei-ho is usually taught in the second day of training. I believe it is in part three of the Shoden Level, but it may be in part two.

While I haven't trained with the Jikiden yet, I have looked into the system and would very much like to.

HatsuRei-ho can be found mentioned in "Light on the Origins of Reiki" by: Tadao Yamaguchi, on page 148. In this section of the book it is being discussed just what takes place at a Jikiden seminar.

Jikiden Reiki is a non-Takata system of Reiki which developed from the teachings of Hayashi Sensei directly. That is after all what Jikiden means: directly taught.

As for your claims of HatsuRei-ho coming from Doi Sensei studying with Mitsui, are you claiming that he learned it from her? If so, where did Mitsui learn it? From Barbra Ray? Where did she learn it? Who was her teacher again? Oh yeah Takata Sensei. Hmmmm, Strange cicular logic. I am hoping that your "conspiracy" is actually a joke.

Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of Mr. Rand, and after reading his "response" I was left with much the same reaction as you were.

Jotaro Kashihara
Usui Reiki Ryoho, Practitioner/Teacher

AlienProgeny wrote:Sorry if I come off as confrontational.

No worries, it's not confrontational, .

AlienProgeny wrote:
Hayashi Sensei did teach HatsuRei-ho.

He did?

AlienProgeny wrote:
There are many things that Takata Sensei left out for some reason or another.

Such as? I'm no authority on this, but with Takata sensei's lengthy training with Hayashi sensei, i've never come across any mention of Hatusrei ho in her diary excerpts either. Someone can correct me on this maybe. It's strange that such an exceptional technique wouldn't be mentioned by a student.

AlienProgeny wrote:
Proof for Hayashi Sensei teaching this can be found within the Jikiden Reiki.

There can be a difference in what is claimed by a style, and what actually may be,

AlienProgeny wrote:
Jikiden Reiki is a non-Takata system of Reiki which developed from the teachings of Hayashi Sensei directly. That is after all what Jikiden means: directly taught.

Any idea of why Hayashi sensei isn't recoqnised in the styles name, since it's meant to be his teachings?

AlienProgeny wrote:
As for your claims of HatsuRei-ho coming from Doi Sensei studying with Mitsui, are you claiming that he learned it from her? If so, where did Mitsui learn it? From Barbra Ray? Where did she learn it? Who was her teacher again?

Nope, i'm not claiming that at all, i don't think i said Hatsurei ho came from Doi studying with Meiko Mitsui. It's more feasible that someone with a background in energy modalities, such as Qigong, added Hatsurei ho in. Incidentally, Doi was already familiar with other modalities (i'm near sure), prior to Reiki. Hiroshi Doi did provide the Hikkei, so in that way at the very least, it came from him.

AlienProgeny wrote:
Oh yeah Takata Sensei. Hmmmm, Strange cicular logic.

Well, you're the one whom just confused yourself, hehe, . Generally, it all does fall back to Takata sensei, and Usui Shiki Ryoho though.

AlienProgeny wrote:
I am hoping that your "conspiracy" is actually a joke.

It's not a joke, .

Take care
Wayne

Hi Jotaro

AlienProgeny wrote: There are many things that Takata Sensei left out for some reason or another.

at least, that's the story we are told

AlienProgeny wrote:As for your claims of HatsuRei-ho coming from Doi Sensei studying with Mitsui, are you claiming that he learned it from her?

As Wayne states, Hiroshi was familiar with numerous other therapeutic and developmental modalities, prior to his learning Reiki from Mieko Mitsui.
In fact he has stated that at the time he learnt Reiki, he was seeking to develop his own healing technique by uniting various systems he had already learned.

These included numerous systems of western origin such as Osteopathy, Energy Balancing, Astral Healing, Silva Mind Control Method, the Natural Vibration technique, Crystal Healing, Balance Therapy, & Multi-dimensional Body Work; and also a great many Japanese disciplines including Nishino Breathing, Seikiho, Dokiho, Shinmeikan Healing, SAS Shinkko, Genkyoku Kiko, Kihodo Healing, Hypnotic Kiko, etc.

And Hiroshi was also familiar with spiritual healing practices such as are found within Mahikari, and the various forms of Johrei as practiced by the many groups and organisations which have formed around the teachings of Mokichi Okada.

So theoretically, there are numerous sources from which Hiroshi could have learnt the hatsurei-ho proceedure - or at very least, the various separate techniques which when combined are now known collectively as hatsurei-ho.

It is possible that hatsurei-ho (at least the version Hiroshi introduced to the Reiki community) is, like the Reiju also taught by Hiroshi, yet another one of his own creations.

Afterall, while we 'know' [thanks to information provided by Hiroshi...] that Usui-sensei taught something called hatsurei-ho to his students, we have no way of being sure that Usui-sensei's hatsurei-ho had anything in common [form-wise or purpose-wise] with the procedure of the same name introduced by Hiroshi...




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Rlei_ki wrote:
Afterall, while we 'know' [thanks to information provided by Hiroshi...] that Usui-sensei taught something called hatsurei-ho to his students, we have no way of being sure that Usui-sensei's hatsurei-ho had anything in common [form-wise or purpose-wise] with the procedure of the same name introduced by Hiroshi...


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Indeed! In fact the hatsurei ho, as practiced in Jikiden is not the same form-wise or purpose-wise, as the hatsurei ho, which Hiroshi Doi has shared. It is actually more aligned with the hatsurei ho as described by Kaiji Tomita in his 1933 Reiki book, Reiki To Jinjutsu – Tomita Ryu Teate Ryoho (Reiki & Humanitarian Work - Tomita Ryu Hands Healing).


There is some difference of opinion as to whether Kaiji Tomita was a student of Usui or Hayashi but it shows that at least one of these teachers could have taught hatsurei ho as described by Tomita (or , of course it could have been developed by Tomita himself!)


Ai to Hikari

Colin

Colin wrote:

Rlei_ki wrote:
Afterall, while we 'know' [thanks to information provided by Hiroshi...] that Usui-sensei taught something called hatsurei-ho to his students, we have no way of being sure that Usui-sensei's hatsurei-ho had anything in common [form-wise or purpose-wise] with the procedure of the same name introduced by Hiroshi...


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Indeed! In fact the hatsurei ho, as practiced in Jikiden is not the same form-wise or purpose-wise, as the hatsurei ho, which Hiroshi Doi has shared. It is actually more aligned with the hatsurei ho as described by Kaiji Tomita in his 1933 Reiki book, Reiki To Jinjutsu – Tomita Ryu Teate Ryoho (Reiki & Humanitarian Work - Tomita Ryu Hands Healing).


There is some difference of opinion as to whether Kaiji Tomita was a student of Usui or Hayashi but it shows that at least one of these teachers could have taught hatsurei ho as described by Tomita (or , of course it could have been developed by Tomita himself!)

Yeah, for sure, we cna plainly see that Tomita named a style after himself. Obvioulsly after changing aspects of what he originally taught. Or, adding certain practices, like a qigong based Haturei ho?

We may be able to see Hatsurei ho in Tomita Ryu Teate Ryoho, but we don't see it in Usui Shiki Ryoho, via Takata sensei. The style named & credited to Usui sensei of being primary importance here, .



take care
wayne

Milarepa wrote:
We may be able to see Hatsurei ho in Tomita Ryu Teate Ryoho, but we don't see it in Usui Shiki Ryoho, via Takata sensei. The style named & credited to Usui sensei of being primary importance here, .

take care
wayne

But...we do see it in the Usui Reiki Ryoho Hikkei - in the Q & A section:
How can I receive the second degree (Okuden) - what does it involve?Okuden consists of several methods - hatsu rei ho; patting, stroking and pressing hands; distance treatment; healing of habits/propensities; etc.
We will give okuden to enthusiastic shoden students who bring good results, are of good character, and behave properly.

The most common version of the Hikkei, being compiled by Mrs Koyama, in the early 1970s, possibly to celebrate the 50th Anniversary of the Gakkai, predates Hiroshi Doi's involvement with Reiki.


Ai to Hikari
Colin

Colin wrote:

Milarepa wrote:
We may be able to see Hatsurei ho in Tomita Ryu Teate Ryoho, but we don't see it in Usui Shiki Ryoho, via Takata sensei. The style named & credited to Usui sensei of being primary importance here, .

take care
wayne

But...we do see it in the Usui Reiki Ryoho Hikkei - in the Q & A section:
How can I receive the second degree (Okuden) - what does it involve?Okuden consists of several methods - hatsu rei ho; patting, stroking and pressing hands; distance treatment; healing of habits/propensities; etc.
We will give okuden to enthusiastic shoden students who bring good results, are of good character, and behave properly.

The most common version of the Hikkei, being compiled by Mrs Koyama, in the early 1970s, possibly to celebrate the 50th Anniversary of the Gakkai, predates Hiroshi Doi's involvement with Reiki.


Ai to Hikari
Colin

Bro, it's Doi whom provided us with the hikkei, as well as the elusive Gakkai. Really, Doi has built an international business on these credentials in part, his authority in his secreat contacts.

So, when a person comes up with a document, and says it's from some secret society, an unfounded claim like thatneeds something more, imo. Iresspective of whether all our Reiki peers simply accept it without question. Largely in part as he is Japanese, so it 'must be authentic', and came at atime when the Reiki community was searching for some roots in Japan. .

If i show you a document, and say it's from St. Patrick (as i'm Irish), does that automatically mean it's from St. Patrick? course not.

The Hikkei as Doi provided, in part looks so similar to what Hayashi provided to Takata sensei (and in turn passed on) also. And we know for sure it was definitely predating any purported Gakkai Hikkei in the 70's. Guess that 'coincidence' should be dismissed also, .

The Gakkai concept, and the Hikkei, helped 'propel' Doi to his international standing. an unverifiable society, with an unverifiablel single sourse document, that in part is near identical to what Hayashi sensei provided, some 30 years earlier! yeah, right, hhehe.

Take care
Wayne

Take care
Wayne

Colin wrote:...the hatsurei ho, as practiced in Jikiden .... is actually more aligned with the hatsurei ho as described by Kaiji Tomita in his 1933 Reiki book,

from this, some might infer that Mrs Yamaguchi may have simply developed her own hatsurei ho after reading Tokita's book

Colin wrote:
...it shows that at least one of these teachers could have taught hatsurei ho as described by Tomita (or , of course it could have been developed by Tomita himself!)

or alternatively, adopted from any of several other sources.

Essentially, Tomita's 'hatsurei ho' simply involves sitting motionless in seiza position with hands in the gassho prayer mudra, and, having chanted some waka poetry to clear the mind of mundane issues, focussing the attention on the hands, imagining them gradually becomming warmer as energy from your heart flowing into them.

Versions of this exercise (though commonly using a prayer or mantra instead of waka) are very common in various healing and martial disciplines; and a similar practice is employed by many Masters of Shodo (calligraphy) prior to picking up the brush.


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Rlei_ki wrote:

Colin wrote:...the hatsurei ho, as practiced in Jikiden .... is actually more aligned with the hatsurei ho as described by Kaiji Tomita in his 1933 Reiki book,

from this, some might infer that Mrs Yamaguchi may have simply developed her own hatsurei ho after reading Tokita's book
.
.

Indeed!
...but some might also infer that both Tomita and Mrs Yamaguchi learned the same method of hatsurei ho from their teachers!

Ai to Hikari
Colin

Milarepa wrote:Bro, it's Doi whom provided us with the hikkei, as well as the elusive Gakkai. Really, Doi has built an international business on these credentials in part, his authority in his secreat contacts.

So, when a person comes up with a document, and says it's from some secret society, an unfounded claim like thatneeds something more, imo. Iresspective of whether all our Reiki peers simply accept it without question. Largely in part as he is Japanese, so it 'must be authentic', and came at atime when the Reiki community was searching for some roots in Japan. .

If i show you a document, and say it's from St. Patrick (as i'm Irish), does that automatically mean it's from St. Patrick? course not.

The Hikkei as Doi provided, in part looks so similar to what Hayashi provided to Takata sensei (and in turn passed on) also. And we know for sure it was definitely predating any purported Gakkai Hikkei in the 70's. Guess that 'coincidence' should be dismissed also, .

The Gakkai concept, and the Hikkei, helped 'propel' Doi to his international standing. an unverifiable society, with an unverifiablel single sourse document, that in part is near identical to what Hayashi sensei provided, some 30 years earlier! yeah, right, hhehe.


Take care
Wayne

Wayne, presumably you are unaware that Doi is not the sole source (or "single contact" as you are so fond of saying!) for the Usui Reiki Ryoho Hikkei?

Hiroshi Doi first shared the Hikkei at Usui Reiki Ryoho International (URRI) Conference in Vancouver in August 1999 but had been in contact with the organizers since 1998.

However, in Frank Petter's First two books, he describes how he came into contact with a copy of the Usui Reiki Ryoho Hikkei - independently of Hiroshi Doi. Petter's copy was given to one of his Japanese Reiki students, Shizuko Akimoto, in 1995-6, by Mr Tsutomo Oishi, who had learned Reiki sometime in the 1950s. Mr Oishi introduced Shizuko Akimoto to a Mr Fumio Ogawa, whose adoptive father was Keizo (or Kozo) Ogawa, a close friend of Mikao Usui and charman of the Shizuoko branch of the Gakkai.


Frank Petter's then wife, Chetna, who is Japanese had difficulty translating that copy of the Hikkei because it was written in Old Japanese (pre-1940's) so it was mostly likely first translated into modern Japanese by Chetna's mother, who could read Old Japanese. In his book, Frank Petter says that although the exact date of the text is not mentioned it could be at least 75 years because one of the questions in the Q & A sections refers to a question asked in the Federal Parliament in 1922 about the status of practitioners of various therapies.

Interestingly in the Answer which mentions hatsurei ho it is spelt 'Hatsuleiho' in Petter's translation.

And, yes, James, I know that Fumio Ogawa was pictured in the 1986 Twighlight magazine article reading a copy of The Radiance Technique, given to him by Mieko Mitsui, who was one of Hiroshi Doi's Reiki Teachers! But Fumio had learned Reiki many years before Mieko visited Japan, as evidenced by the photo of his Reiki "certificates" dating from 1942-3.

Interestingly also, Fumio Ogawa describes a method of Hatsurei Ho (very much like that shared by Doi, as it happens!) in his booklet 'Everyone Can Do Reiki' written before the Twilight Magazine Article but published afterwards. At the beginning of his booklet, Fumio Ogawa explains why:
"After I had finished writing this manuscript, I received a magazine with a piece of paper inside saying "Excuse me for sending this you so late". I realized that it was an interview about Reiki from a magazine writer from the beginning of this year. I decided to include the whole article as reference since it describes precisely the roots of Reiki. According to the article Reiki is spreading in America now."


In his preface he also says:
"I feel a little uneasy about how much I can describe Reiki Therapy and Hatsurei-ho from the many experiences of my parents, but I decided to write this based on the lessons from the Usui-Sensei and my mentors, along with my personal opinion."


Just some more information to digest mainly given to show that the Gakkai and its Hikkei are described by more than a single source - not just Doi. Although I suppose you could argue that both Fumio Ogawa and Hiroshi Doi have Mieko Mitsui in common? Or also, that one of Fumio's "mentors" could have been Hiroshi Doi?

Ai to Hikari
Colin

Colin wrote:

Wayne, presumably you are unaware that Doi is not the sole source (or "single contact" as you are so fond of saying!) for the Usui Reiki Ryoho Hikkei?

I say single source contacts, as these folks seem to have a knack of providing 'information' that others can't verify. As you know, i lost out personally approx £1500 on a supposed such person, a 'masters master' whom doesn't know the difference between western add-on Reiki, and what Takata sensei actually taught, hehe.

Or, if there seems to be verification, there can still be more questions to that, on whether folks actually do come across stuff, 'independately'. Which is what i'll explore here, .

Colin wrote:
Hiroshi Doi first shared the Hikkei at Usui Reiki Ryoho International (URRI) Conference in Vancouver in August 1999 but had been in contact with the organizers since 1998.

do you find it curious that whilst Doi felt the need to first share the Hikkei in August 1999 at the conference, that his associate whom also organised the same conference, Rick Rivard, presumably by sheer coincidence of course,was also sharing his Hikkei, whom he got via another single source contact, in August 1999 also! Ahh, the confusion!

i'll expand on a 'pattern' that forms. Rick also was learning Usui-do under Dave King. Another single source contact, whom foloks began to be concerned about. And, he was close to Andy Bowling. Andy & Chris Marsh privded Usui teate, another style via a single source contact. there's many concerned about the truthfulness of that also. Incidentally, my own single source 'masters master' did say that Suzuki san does exist. Going by whom it was who told me, that says it all, hehe.

What i've expereinced happens, and what i think happens with others, is that single source contacts do in fact 'support' each other in theri claims. I'm not suggesting it's some kinda international conspiracy, although it fits the description, i'm not being that dramatic. These folks have been, at times, immediatelly before they created theri styles, advising each other, and afterwards, at least once, i personally heard supprting another.

Doi fits the profile perfectly. And was also quite involved in encouraging Chiyoko to create Jikiden.

Colin wrote:
However, in Frank Petter's First two books, he describes how he came into contact with a copy of the Usui Reiki Ryoho Hikkei - independently of Hiroshi Doi.

What was his first book? I've Reiki Fire here, it was first published in 1997. when did 'the legacy of Dr. Usui' come out? 1998? I know he named his book after the Hikkei.

You're sure it was independant of Doi? As in, they hadn't been in contact then? If we're talking about say 1999 for Vancouver, and, imo, Doi personally encouraging Chiyoko for formalise a style, which, imo agian, was done in the very late 1990's, and Doi forming his own international standing, there's quite a lot of things happening around the same time, forming & being developed.

Rick Rivard says he recieved a copy of the Hikkei in june 1999 from a Akihiko Uechi. In the autumn of 1999 Rick began to freely share his translation of this. I'm unsure of whether Doi claims to be the first to share the Hikkei, i'm sure i'm claiming we got it from him though, hehe.

And, did Arjava provide a copy of any Hikkei, or was he only mentioning a Hikkei? did he provide excerpts in his 1998 book?

Colin wrote:
Petter's copy was given to one of his Japanese Reiki students, Shizuko Akimoto, in 1995-6, by Mr Tsutomo Oishi, who had learned Reiki sometime in the 1950s.

The same Mr. Oishi whom, Arjava said provided a picture of Usui sensei, whom, imo, looks quite different from the common picture, like on the top left of the forum?

Colin wrote:
Frank Petter's then wife, Chetna, who is Japanese had difficulty translating that copy of the Hikkei because it was written in Old Japanese (pre-1940's) so it was mostly likely first translated into modern Japanese by Chetna's mother, who could read Old Japanese. In his book, Frank Petter says that although the exact date of the text is not mentioned it could be at least 75 years because one of the questions in the Q & A sections refers to a question asked in the Federal Parliament in 1922 about the status of practitioners of various therapies.

Jeez, hehe. A booklet that mentions 1992. So it automatically pre-dates it? 'This paragraph was wrote in 2007'. Was it? .

I know exaclty what it's like to take for granted that folks are honest & just within Reiki. And i know what it's like to even semi-automatically believe things that Reiki peers say. sadly, it's just ain't so. And it's pretty widespread. when there are serious issues with styles such as Usui-do & Usui teate, whom teachers like Rick rivard trained under, and folks like the one i had, whom has a position sitting in mettings in Houses of Parliment on the RRWG mettings, and these folks decieve others, the thing has seeped into much of Reiki.

two years ago, if i was reading myself now, i'd say i'm being paranoid. I was advised constantly in private to be certain as to what i'm doing, i thought i knew best, even with all my checks & references i done, including a well known British Reiki author! Perhaps it'll only be when one does their own research as best they can, without taking the authenticity for granted, that they may also see how prudent it is to be very discerning, .

Colin wrote:
Just some more information to digest mainly given to show that the Gakkai and its Hikkei are described by more than a single source - not just Doi. Although I suppose you could argue that both Fumio Ogawa and Hiroshi Doi have Mieko Mitsui in common? Or also, that one of Fumio's "mentors" could have been Hiroshi Doi?

Well, hehe, i'm near sure i never suggested that Doi is the only person to mention the Hikkei or the Gakkai, hehe. I think i was suggesting Doi provided us with the Hikkei, being the single source contact for that, and also, being the single source contact for the Gakkai.

take care
wayne

Colin wrote:...The most common version of the Hikkei, being compiled by Mrs Koyama, in the early 1970s...

The most common version?



There is only one 'Reiki Ryoho Hikkei' - or 'Reiki Treatment Companion' - and that booklet was created by Kimiko Koyama
(In the same way that Alice T. Furumoto created the 'Grey Book')




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Rlei_ki wrote:The most common version?



There is only one 'Reiki Ryoho Hikkei' - or 'Reiki Treatment Companion' - and that booklet was created by Kimiko Koyama
(In the same way that Alice T. Furumoto created the 'Grey Book')

.
.

Maybe...

But Frank Petter says that the copy of the Hikkei he received was written in Old Japanese but the copies of the Hikkei I have seen bandied about the internet seem to be written in modern Japanese, which is what I would expect if it was compiled by Mrs Koyama in the 1970s.

This is why I said "most common version" because, unless Frank Petter is not telling the truth (or Chetna had forgotten how to read modern Japanese) then there may also be an older version of the Hikkei from which the one in the 1970s was compiled. Since the Gakkai has been in existence since at least 1922, I would have though that they would have had some sort of handbook for their members before the 1970s.

Incidentally the cover of the Reiki Shiori that I have seen is also written in modern Japanese. I don't recall seeing the covers of either the Japanese version of the Hayashi Shishin or Usui's Shishin (Healing Guides) but I would imagine they should be written in Old Japanese as they were around pre-1940s.

Of course I could just be being naive and putting too much faith in people!

Ai to Hikari
Colin

Colin wrote:... I don't recall seeing the covers of either the Japanese version of the Hayashi Shishin or Usui's Shishin (Healing Guides) but I would imagine they should be written in Old Japanese as they were around pre-1940s.

Well, as far as I'm aware, the only Japanese version of the Usui Ryoho Shishin in general circulation is to be found in the Hikkei.
I personally have not come across a booklet which contains the Shishin on its own.
[Though I'm sure there'd be a market for it if I could find (or create ) a copy... ]

As to the cover of the Japanese version of Hayashi-sensei's treatment guidelines, see here



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Rlei_ki wrote:
As to the cover of the Japanese version of Hayashi-sensei's treatment guidelines, see here

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Thanks for that James!

Actually, I just realized seeing that, that I do have a photo of the cover of an old well-used copy of the treatment guidelines which has exactly the same main title as the one you shared and all the other kanji apart from the first column (the column with Hayashi's name in it, which I think says something about the Hayashi Reiki Institute American Branch?). In fact Hayashi's name does not appear on it at all - or Usui's). I wonder if that makes the one in my photo a pre-Hayashi treatment Guide or maybe just not a version for the American Branch? Unfortunately I have made a promise not to publish that photo since it may well be appearing in a forthcoming book so I am not able to share it.

Do you have a translation for the kanji in brackets? I assume some of it says something like (This printed copy is a substitute for the original hand written text.) since that is found on the English translation copy I have. Does the other bit say (Not for Sale)? But since I can't read Japanese (Old or New) I am just guessing based on the English Translation I have seen.


Thanks again
Ai to Hikari
Colin

Hello again,
Sorry for my delay in replying, but I have a busy life. Thank you to everybody that has particapated in this thread, it has been interesting to say the least. Thank you to everyone for sharing the info they have, I am learning a lot.
I had forgotten that Ogawa wrote about Hatsurei ho as well. Been awhile since I read his book.
Please understand that I am interested in learning as to what Usui actually taught. The waters of Reiki history are very unclear. My goals are to understand this system we practice.
Wayne, thank you for your input. You provide a simular skeptical stance that I myself have. We do not really even disagree. Much of what you write I personally agree with. Like you, I also have taken a few classes with people who are less than honest. I too have lost money to these people. It is what started me on the search I am now on.
I do have a couple issues with the "single source" type of information like you mention. However, could not Takata also be considered as a "single source"? When she first started teaching Reiki, none of her students met Hayashi, did they? For years, everyone had no choice to but to take her word for everything. In these modern days, we now have reasons to doubt some of the history she told. We have also some supporting evidence thanks to the Yamaguchi family on Hayashi. A good deal of this info supports what Takata said, some is different. I am new to looking at Jikiden Reiki, and to be frank, I do have some issues with some of the info they share.
As to the issue with Doi. I too am unsure of much of what he has shared. The list of teachers especially, which seems to change depending on who he is talking to. The sudden appearence of a "Gakkai training to Shinpiden" with out knowing it was Reiki he was being taught, is worrisome to me. I do believe that it was Doi who encouraged the Yamaguchi's to start teaching even though he is only refered to as a "Reiki Master" in the book, I think it was Doi through his friendship with Inamoto.
I am skeptical of the guy, but it sometimes seems like a witch hunt is happening here with regards to him.

AlienProgeny wrote:
I do have a couple issues with the "single source" type of information like you mention. However, could not Takata also be considered as a "single source"? When she first started teaching Reiki, none of her students met Hayashi, did they?

This is true. Then gain, we could say Hayashi sensei, and even Usui sensei was single source contacts. It's a natural part of lineage for it to be this way.

The difference i draw on, is that Takata sensei had no need to fabricate anything. She provided us with Reiki, and there was not even any competition. It can be argued that she said Reiki died out in Japan, but imo, i see indications she was telling the truth...

... in 1976 Takata sensei taught level 1 in Japan. She reported that they were very enthusiastic for it. that seems strange, if Reiki was already been taught there.

Meiko Mitsui, a Japanese woman also, didn't report ( to my knowledge) of finding anyone also. And she went searching in part for that. She also taught Reiki there, and had quite a reception.

Arjava Petter, when he was with Chetnya, has said in Reiki Fire that folks where coming from all over Japan to learn his Reiki. Why, was it so popular also.

The obvious answer to all these, is Reiki most definitely wasn't widely available, and even possiblly had died out.

AlienProgeny wrote:
For years, everyone had no choice to but to take her word for everything. In these modern days, we now have reasons to doubt some of the history she told.

This is what's been portrayed about Takata sensei, and Usui Shiki Ryoho, for some time. Guess who benefits from this? The 'original styles', that in fact, are only at best 15 or 20 years old. What is a fact, is that a large part of what Takata sensei said can't actually be proved to be wrong. The 'experts' provide little proof of anything, and imo, much of what's levied against Takata sensei can be countered.

We have to remember, that Takata sensei was only re-telling what she was told, by Hayashi sensei. Of course, this little fact is not mentioned by various folks, lest it put Hayashi sensei in a poor light, and that in turn has implikcations for 'original styles' via him. My own opinion is Hayashi sensei told the truth also. He wouldn't have lived any other way.

check out: http://www.aetw.org/reiki_myth.htm

and also: http://www.aetw.org/reiki_japanese_christianity.htm

AlienProgeny wrote:
We have also some supporting evidence thanks to the Yamaguchi family on Hayashi.

I'm not saying this is what Jikiden has done, but am making a general point. If you & I where Japanese, living in Japan, and decided to create a style, to support our claims for authenticity, it may be worthwhile if we search our country for material relating to the early teachers. It may take a bit of time, but i;m sure we could do it. This is why i regard stuff like this objectively. .

AlienProgeny wrote:
I am skeptical of the guy, but it sometimes seems like a witch hunt is happening here with regards to him.

thanks for mentioning that, . that's certinly not the way this forum operates, or, the members do. If it's looking otherwise, i'll take that on board, and am grateful you said it, .

Hiroshi is just one of quite a few i feel has not been honest. It's not the view of the forum, but my own personal view, . I feel strongly about this subject, not only cause i lost money myself, but because i see Usui Shiki Ryoho made worthless sometimes, and what's said about Takata sensei, is merely a lot of people mindlessly repeating what they in turn have heard. i'm no Reiki scholar, but in my own research, the only original way i could be taught would be to learn what Takata sensei taught. That teaching does exist, but is quite exclusive i feel (to protect it), and prob not something i'd be invited to learn, unfortunately.

Take care, and thanks for sharing your views, .
,Wayne

P.S. Ever wonder, what happened to Takata sensei's level 1 students, in 1976. Or Meiko Mitsui's students, 10 years later. We hear of none of these other styles until the late 1990's. When we do here of them, we hear things like attunements where never done intially, or symbols where not used, etc. This is level 1 talk to me, as they wouldn't know attunements or symbols. Particuarly, when western teachers int he 1990's mention them. What esle could these 'original' lineage folks say?

Hi Thanks again for the response!
Yes I have read those articles. I first read them a bout a year ago when I first found Mr. Deacon's site. I re-read them now and I have to say that there is a few issues I have with them still.
The first being that the article states over and over again that it was the Roman Catholic religion first introduced to Japan which is untrue. The first exposure to Christianity for the Japanese came on 23 September 1543 when a Chinese junk carrying two Portuguese merchants was forced by a storm to make landfall at Tanegashima. Shortly later, in 1546 the Jesuit Order dispatched clergy to Japan. These clergy came from China and the Philippines to Japan. You see, the Pope of Rome to settle a dispute between Spain and Portugaul, devided to each a portion of the then "Known World". Spain was granted the lands to the west, and Portugal the lands to the east. This is why from an anthropological study we see the Mexico and most of South America speaks Spanish (save for Brazil which was granted to the Portuguese due to jealousy over the amount of gold the Spanish was bringing home from the Americas). Tagalog, one of the languages spoken in the Philippines (some would say the primary) is Portuguese based sharing a good many words. They Church division of the world was even mentioned in the mini-series Shogun. The Catholic faith did come to Japan, just later. As did the other Christian faiths.
My second issue is that it seems to believe that just because the Japanese studied Christianity, that it means that they all converted. I will be the first to admit that Western ideas were of high interest to the Japanese of that day, but there is a HUGH difference between studying something and living it. For example, I do not believe there was a historical Jesus. At best I feel he is a composite figure. I do not find any evidence to support him historically. I should mention that I do not consider the Bible or biblical text historical documents much for the same reasons that you have for not believing Doi. There are also a good many biblical text that refute other text. Point being that there is no INDEPENDENT mention of a historical Jesus (please do not mention Josephus, that is refuted already). I have on my bookshelf 38 "Pro-Jesus" books that claim to prove Jesus historically, they fail. I continue my study of the Jesus mystery because I enjoy the research and the hunt. Maybe someday I'll find something to convince me, then I'll accept it. I study Christianity and the Bible, that does not make me Christian. The same is most likely true for the Japanese of the Meiji. Curiosity more so than conversion would be a safer bet. Althoug I am sure some did convert as well. There was a Christian population many in secret before the Meiji. Once the ban was lifted, it just meant the secret ones could now be more public. As the article states, Western thing were trendy.
For the record, I also have a problem with the whole "Usui the Tendai" thing. I have never looked into it personally, but often temples "change hands" in Japan. On Kurama Yama for example, that temple was once Tendai, but now is Kurama Kyo. The temple where the Usui stone is, is now a Jodo-shu Temple. But, was it always? Most likely not. Maybe I'll look into that some day. If it was a Jodo-shu temple when his remains were placed there, it would be odd if he was a Tendai. That kind of thing doesn't usually happen. Much like a Cathloic cemetary will not bury a Mormon.
I took a "Original Reiki" class for shoden under the International house of Reiki lineage. In the class it was mentioned Usui was a martial artist. This interested me due to my own training in martial arts. The provided manual mentions the arts he studied as being "Aiki-jutsu" and "Yagyu Ryu". This could not be more vauge. Aikijutsu is a generic term and there are twenty some odd schools that have Yagyu in their name. It would be interesting to have more info.
Thirdly, just because one Japanese fellow sneaks off to America and returns to set up a University, does not mean that Usui did. The fact is we do not know. Mr. Deacon's articles, while I do enjoy them and he is obviouly well researched, are full of his opinions and speculations. Over the years since I found his site, his articles have given me much food for thought and I am thankful for that. He is far from the end all source however (no offence, Mr. Deacon). He is doing what we all do as we ponder this mystery of Reiki history.