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Milarepa wrote:quite true! it's so bloody obvious. Ya know, Einstein kept a copy of Madame Balvatsky's 'Secret doctrine' on his desk all his life. anyone familiar with her stuff would find this interesting.

Who's Eric pearl sharon?

well I didn't know that about einstein, but I did know that einstein was a man with a scientific, rational thinking mind, but also open minded enough to respect and hold high regard for the spiritual and mysterious ........

eric pearl was mentioned in Bridget's initial post...thats why I mentioned him..look him up, interesting bloke!

thihttp://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/einstein/s might not work....

shite!! didn't work....

it was a list of spiritual quotes from einstein.... but i can't copy and paste it correctly.

chi_solas wrote:

Wayne,
I would have to say that when the church
began to change with the ecumenical movement
back in the sixties a subtle questioning of
why no more latin, its ok to eat meat on
Friday's among many other changes that began
to happen within. I began to question why do
I have to be churched {A Purification rite.}
after the birth of my children. Women could
not be part of the church like men.

It was a guilt/shameful act to pull away from
the church that I had been so faithful to. All
its judgments/rituals embedded made it more
difficult. It was a slow process and when it
was my children's turn to make their confirmation
at the age of twelve. They chose not to and that
was fine with me. At this point I was beginning
to see organized religion as a choice. I looked
at the culture were I grew up and the attitudes
that a child born into a family would worship in
the same church as its parents. It seems to me
that most cultures expect families to feed their
off spring into the organized religion that dominates
their country

Many thanks for sharing this. Yeah, cultures do expect children to worship the same as the rest. The best approach is what you done & I am doing, giving them a choice.

I dunno if this is becoming widespread or not, but my kids school is a catholic school, yet 50% are non-catholic. My daughter is in a play about the similarities in Islam, Christianity & Judaism. Which is pretty cool for a catholic school to do. It might be just that school, and not the wider church, sure, but i hope the tolerance is more widespread. From what you've shared, and other stories, it hasn't always been like this, and that's definitely a real shame, .

Take care
Wayne

prety 'cool' for a catholic school....for some catholics that could heralded as down right blasphemy!! ahahaha

now I wonder if other single denomonation schools would be happy to open up their students to the similarities in other faiths......that would be a fine thing...

I also think creation myths from around the globe should be part of the school curriculum.......the similarities between these myths and creation stories and the symbolic stories which run throughout particular 'Holy books'( which are taught and taken as literal * rolls eyes*) would be mind opening!

Shakti ~ Rising wrote:shite!! didn't work....

it was a list of spiritual quotes from einstein.... but i can't copy and paste it correctly.

Here you go, Sharon:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/einstein/

Some nice quotes there - thanks for sharing!

“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.”

Max Planck.

Milarepa wrote:

“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.”

Max Planck.

at sub-atomic level, matter shows only a tendency to exist, and does not exist per se, as a certain scientific truth... thats why, we are given to believe that waves and particles are alike in such situations...

(rutherford and max plank)

and further applying this physical principle (or non-principle) to meta-physics, we are sooner given to believe that terms, defintions, certainities, etc. progressively go vanish, in one single absoulte truth (or an aggregate of such sublimial truths)....


in sprituality, what i can see as of today, is that better we refrain defining things, the higher we go


take care



salman

Shakti ~ Rising wrote:

well I didn't know that about einstein, but I did know that einstein was a man with a scientific, rational thinking mind, but also open minded enough to respect and hold high regard for the spiritual and mysterious ........

sharon, do you find it a mere coincidence that discoveries of major scientific principles (and especially in physics), were a product of Eureka-like moments... like gravitation theory, like buyoncy theory, etc.

science claims to be methodical, logical, and orgnaized in discourse, but what we actually see that such discoveries were mostly un-anticipated, un-organized, and sometimes not a result of logical thinking...



so a big question, that a scientist in his lab or field-lab, is sometimes quite similar to a rishi or saint in the act of meditation, since the result of both is a spark, a thunder-bolt, and a moment of discovery........EUREKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



take care



salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:
at sub-atomic level, matter shows only a tendency to exist, and does not exist per se, as a certain scientific truth... thats why, we are given to believe that waves and particles are alike in such situations...

(rutherford and max plank)

and further applying this physical principle (or non-principle) to meta-physics, we are sooner given to believe that terms, defintions, certainities, etc. progressively go vanish, in one single absoulte truth (or an aggregate of such sublimial truths)....

Sure Salman. What is being talked about above isn't the force behind it all, which is the nittty gritty of spirituality. Max Planck himself spoke of th eforce behind all of the above quote. I'm also of the opinion that ULE is the force in motion which God has made in motion. Since the laws of physics say something must put something in motion for it to be in motion.

You're quote about science is right. What you're quote might mean (without reading the whole text) is that you're looking at your computer monitor right now. Your brain interprets it as always there. However, the monitor isn't always there. The universe is so dynamic that that monititor with it's sub-atomic particles is moving at such a fast rate it is actually in our exitence at one point, and actually vanishes from existence the next point (an exciting question which gets my adrenaline going is where does it go!). It's very fast, but quantum physics has shown this is what happens. Likewise, when you move across the room, you aren't actually moving. You're disappearing and appearing at a different point, which gives the illusion of movement. Something that also supports what i've said about Reiki not moving anywhere, or being sent, now that i think bout it i must get the details and post it in the relevant topic).

Anyhow, for the scientists to arrive at this conclusion, and without a doubt to further understand it, and move beyond it, they will need to continue to look at terms, definitions, and certanties. If you're saying anything is possible with quantum physics, this is true for sure. It's a theoretical science largely, so anything is possible. .

Lambs-Wool wrote:


in sprituality, what i can see as of today, is that better we refrain defining things, the higher we go

In a sense this is true. We should elaborate though, .

It's useful to not get too fixated on any single thing in a spiritual path, be it concept, technique, experience etc. However, if we don't attempt to understand what we are doing (as in technique) what the reason is for doing the technique (so we're not merely unthinking robots), and what the experience means, we won't understand our journey.

Throughout religion, and independant spirituality, folks always need to search for answers and advice. Both you & I have done this, and will definitely need help again it's fair to assume. What sets us apart from other species is our intellect. If we are mindfull (and that's the crucial part in ALL spirituality) then we can fully embrace our humanity, in all it's glory, and it'll accentuate our understanding. something you & I would understand is Ta'Wil, the esoteric understanding of the Holy Qu'Ran. Buddhist's also don't study sutras for years on end cause they're bored, . Even going against my own earlier advice somewhat, no-one can suggest that a Zen buddhist would not be able to obtain enlightenment through the study of one single Koan!



Take care
Wayne

Colin wrote:

Shakti ~ Rising wrote:shite!! didn't work....

it was a list of spiritual quotes from einstein.... but i can't copy and paste it correctly.

Here you go, Sharon:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/einstein/

Some nice quotes there - thanks for sharing!

no, thank YOU for sharing!!

Lambs-Wool wrote:

Shakti ~ Rising wrote:

well I didn't know that about einstein, but I did know that einstein was a man with a scientific, rational thinking mind, but also open minded enough to respect and hold high regard for the spiritual and mysterious ........

sharon, do you find it a mere coincidence that discoveries of major scientific principles (and especially in physics), were a product of Eureka-like moments... like gravitation theory, like buyoncy theory, etc.

science claims to be methodical, logical, and orgnaized in discourse, but what we actually see that such discoveries were mostly un-anticipated, un-organized, and sometimes not a result of logical thinking...



so a big question, that a scientist in his lab or field-lab, is sometimes quite similar to a rishi or saint in the act of meditation, since the result of both is a spark, a thunder-bolt, and a moment of discovery........EUREKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



take care



salman

absolutely!......i've read some very interesting material by scientists......and the thing that struck me during those eurika moments was that a lot of them were in such a state of one pointed focus on their work, that this created a very meditative state in which their mind and perceptions expanded... also read from one or two scientists that the answers to certain equations and problems came to them during their dreams..........

Marvelous!!

I don't know if you've ever heard of Russel Targ, but I like his line of work......

Milarepa wrote:
You're quote about science is right.

.....................What you're quote might mean (without reading the whole text) is that you're looking at your computer monitor right now. Your brain interprets it as always there. However, the monitor isn't always there.

.....................The universe is so dynamic that that monititor with it's sub-atomic particles is moving at such a fast rate it is actually in our exitence at one point, and actually vanishes from existence the next point (an exciting question which gets my adrenaline going is where does it go!). It's very fast, but quantum physics has shown this is what happens.

.....................Likewise, when you move across the room, you aren't actually moving. You're disappearing and appearing at a different point, which gives the illusion of movement. Something that also supports what i've said about Reiki not moving anywhere, or being sent, now that i think bout it i must get the details and post it in the relevant topic).

my perception of what said above, is bit difficult for me to explain, but i'll try...the sub-atomic world, i feel, is a miniature version of our universe... scientific knowledge tells us that an atom contains particles like a nucleus and electrons revolving around... through which 'bounded rationality' the protons and neutrons are confined inside a nucleus, we yet have to discover... and then what creates the centripetal force to keep the elecctrons moving around the nucleus, is still under debate... on one level we say that atom is discrete, meaning that it is the most tiny possible building block of matter, and yet we say, rather prove, that fission chain reactions and the fusion phenomenon have the tendency of splitting an atom into its anatomical constituents...the sub-atomic particles exist within the atom, and once outside the atom, their behaviour, their existence, their realm, so utterly changes, that we get amazed....

same is true with the entire universe... everything owes its existence not to its 'existence' but to the existence of that atomosphere within which it is housed... so this concept of 'relative existence' is sometimes the key to understand the true existence, if ever it has to be...

the same concept of relative existence defines our material world... lets take an example : our planet is revolving around sun in its orbit, and also on its own axis on a definite speed... means that all that is housed within our planet is also moving at the same speed... similar to the principle that the speed of the passengers in a fast moving car is neither less nor more than the car itself...

once, if you can suppose for a moment, we can change our speed relative to the speed of the planet in motion, we lose our reality or even existence... so where was our existence in the first place ?? or ever it was, if really so ?? so if i try to reconcile with your example of working at my computer screen, i would say that computer screen only 'tends' to exist or gives a semblance of existence, otherwise and technically speaking, what i see as compter screen a nano second ago, is no longer a computer screen anymore , rather it has already moved ahead, and something has come in its place, but since i have moved ahead with the same speed, i hardly notice the motion, and my this 'inability' to sense the innate motion, is the key to my own eixtence

Milarepa wrote:
Anyhow, for the scientists to arrive at this conclusion, and without a doubt to further understand it, and move beyond it, they will need to continue to look at terms, definitions, and certanties. If you're saying anything is possible with quantum physics, this is true for sure. It's a theoretical science largely, so anything is possible. .

as a theory, no doubt, quantum physics is amazingly turly spiritual

Milarepa wrote:

Lambs-Wool wrote:


in sprituality, what i can see as of today, is that better we refrain defining things, the higher we go

In a sense this is true. We should elaborate though, .

It's useful to not get too fixated on any single thing in a spiritual path, be it concept, technique, experience etc. However, if we don't attempt to understand what we are doing (as in technique) what the reason is for doing the technique (so we're not merely unthinking robots), and what the experience means, we won't understand our journey.

maybe my initial understanding and readings in philosophy has sorta disturbed my concepts so badly (of course you can tell it more precisely, since you have been through all the details of how philosophical principles sometimes operate so irrrationally in order to approach true rationality)....

no doubt we need words, phrases, terms in order to interpret things, and if words are lost from humanity, we will lose everything... yet, sometimes, especially in subtle, objectless, blissful moments of true presence, we feel it more convenient to not to define or explain what we been feeling, since, like dreams, sometimes beautiful things start vanishing on the very next moment we start explaining, defining, or memorizing them

Milarepa wrote:

Throughout religion, and independant spirituality, folks always need to search for answers and advice. Both you & I have done this, and will definitely need help again it's fair to assume. What sets us apart from other species is our intellect. If we are mindfull (and that's the crucial part in ALL spirituality) then we can fully embrace our humanity, in all it's glory, and it'll accentuate our understanding.

forgive, i have fragmented your paragraph, but i couldnt resist, since it is such lovingly been written, and exposed... beautiful reading !

Milarepa wrote:
something you & I would understand is Ta'Wil, the esoteric understanding of the Holy Qu'Ran. Buddhist's also don't study sutras for years on end cause they're bored, . Even going against my own earlier advice somewhat, no-one can suggest that a Zen buddhist would not be able to obtain enlightenment through the study of one single Koan!

general readership : 'ta-wil' means logic, reason, deduction!

'tarteel' means recitation, normally without understanding the meaning, in a fashion religious devouts across all religions chant, or recite their holy books, sciptures, etc. with an attitude of reverence and sacredness.

'tanzeel' means a blissful moment when the innate meaning of the sentence or some word of a religious text gets 'transcended' on the heart (not mind) of the person...


what i personally feel here, that 'ta-wil', 'tarteel' and 'tanzeel' are all of them necessary, if we want to satisfy our heart and mind simultaneously what you say Wayne ?




take care

salman



Take care
Wayne[/quote]

I say I'm enjoying this discourse..

Good chat here buddy! Many thanks for that!

Lambs-Wool wrote:
my perception of what said above, is bit difficult for me to explain, but i'll try...

once, if you can suppose for a moment, we can change our speed relative to the speed of the planet in motion, we lose our reality or even existence... so where was our existence in the first place ?? or ever it was, if really so ?? so if i try to reconcile with your example of working at my computer screen, i would say that computer screen only 'tends' to exist or gives a semblance of existence, otherwise and technically speaking, what i see as compter screen a nano second ago, is no longer a computer screen anymore , rather it has already moved ahead, and something has come in its place, but since i have moved ahead with the same speed, i hardly notice the motion, and my this 'inability' to sense the innate motion, is the key to my own eixtence

you explained it pretty well buddy, . yeah, one moment we exist, and the next we don't exist, this happens countless times every second. It's real interesting though, (and scientist havn't found this out yet, so i dunno if we can hehe) that no-one can tell exactly where everything goes once it's disappeared!

Lambs-Wool wrote:

Milarepa wrote:
Anyhow, for the scientists to arrive at this conclusion, and without a doubt to further understand it, and move beyond it, they will need to continue to look at terms, definitions, and certanties. If you're saying anything is possible with quantum physics, this is true for sure. It's a theoretical science largely, so anything is possible. .

as a theory, no doubt, quantum physics is amazingly turly spiritual

without a doubt Salman. It really inspires me quantum physics & spirituality. Particularly when i see science wrote in religious scriptures. All the time there's validation going on, things said from maybe 5000 years ago!

Lambs-Wool wrote:
maybe my initial understanding and readings in philosophy has sorta disturbed my concepts so badly (of course you can tell it more precisely, since you have been through all the details of how philosophical principles sometimes operate so irrrationally in order to approach true rationality)....

Yeah, i can prob see irrational principles cause i've so many myself, hehe!

Lambs-Wool wrote:
no doubt we need words, phrases, terms in order to interpret things, and if words are lost from humanity, we will lose everything... yet, sometimes, especially in subtle, objectless, blissful moments of true presence, we feel it more convenient to not to define or explain what we been feeling, since, like dreams, sometimes beautiful things start vanishing on the very next moment we start explaining, defining, or memorizing them

This is true, i'm glad you're highlighting it. A careful middle path should be observed in all this. If we use our intellect to analyze the experience to almost nothing, we do ourselves a disservice. And the expereince isn't useful. Every person has their own capabilities of how far they should seek to understand things, or just let it be. Prob someone whom is in a teaching capacity giving immense personal time could justifiably advise from the outside, but largely a person gotta make their own call. It's why i highlighted mindfullness earlier. It's not just thinking about one thing, it's also about being aware of when you're becoming out of focus, or, for lack of a better word, your 'ego' is getting in the way. If a person is mindful, they can walk the middle path and avial of the best of all ways. Or, someone not academic they could just concentrate on practical expereinces. different ways for different folks.

Lambs-Wool wrote:

Milarepa wrote:

Throughout religion, and independant spirituality, folks always need to search for answers and advice. Both you & I have done this, and will definitely need help again it's fair to assume. What sets us apart from other species is our intellect. If we are mindfull (and that's the crucial part in ALL spirituality) then we can fully embrace our humanity, in all it's glory, and it'll accentuate our understanding.

forgive, i have fragmented your paragraph, but i couldnt resist, since it is such lovingly been written, and exposed... beautiful reading !

Yeah, it's a fair point i feel. For some reason, the use of the intellect is frowned upon with westerners involved in spirituality. I feel it's a lot of 'jumping on the bandwagon', and folks aren't thinking out what they're saying. There's so much history & experience with folks using their intellect in spirituality and it's actually advanced them! In fact, i'd wager there's evidence that prob every spirtual path each of us here do, that things have came about at least in part via the intellect of others. We should embrace all that makes us human, not feel any part unworthy.

Lambs-Wool wrote:
what i personally feel here, that 'ta-wil', 'tarteel' and 'tanzeel' are all of them necessary, if we want to satisfy our heart and mind simultaneously what you say Wayne ?

As far as Islam is concerned? Or in general, if i could really those ways generally? I'll answer in general, cause i wouldn't presume to judge such a perfect path as Islam, !

In many ways no, those ways aren't neccessary. Then again, many folks don't recite mantras, and in a way mantra work is similar to tarteel.If i could realy my Reiki expereince to the three ways..

I became involved in Reiki, and really hadn't a clue why i was doing what i did = Tarteel

Then i began to study the whole thing, experience & system/concepts = Ta-wil

Because of the reason & deduction, my perception changed immensely, barriers i never knew existed came down, and then came the blissful moments = Tanzeel.

Different path, but same kinda concepts? For me it's been a definite roadmap.

Take care
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:
you explained it pretty well buddy, . yeah, one moment we exist, and the next we don't exist, this happens countless times every second. It's real interesting though, (and scientist havn't found this out yet, so i dunno if we can hehe) that no-one can tell exactly where everything goes once it's disappeared!

adding to the bold portion above, Wayne do you remember that Muslims believe in 99 names of Allah, and two of them are Uhyi'i and U'meet'u (meaning the one who gives life and the one who gives death)... although, this is often believed to be referring to the fact that Allah has the command over life n death, but i feel that the attributes of every name of Allah exist every moment... so, what i feel, that HE is making us life every moment, after giving us death every moment... it could be a stupid belief, i know, but this just springs from my inner observation...

Milarepa wrote:
It really inspires me quantum physics & spirituality. Particularly when i see science wrote in religious scriptures. All the time there's validation going on, things said from maybe 5000 years ago!

words of scriptures, holy books, works of saints, sayings of great people of the world fromt the spiritual sphere, have innumerable scientific truths in them... although we cannot term them 'scientfic' in the first instance, since science would often tend to clothe them with words like 'theory' or even 'hypothesis' whereas such truths have revealed on them like a gospel presence without the need of so-called methods of scientific testification...

and we can couch reliance from many historical facts and events.... for example, the construction of pyramids, the water-systems in many ancient buildings and palaces, where water would flow just by utilizing gravitational pull in a very master way..

in the world of medicines, the herbal medicine, the hoemeopathy, etc. seem to be existing far earlier than the modern medicinal theory exposed such truths to the books and literature of medica.....

like Sharon said in some thread, that rishis, saints, spiritual people had known certain facts by their 'instinct' which modern day science knows by experimentation and discourse...

so may this be leading us to believe that science accounts for only a part of knowledge and not the whole of it ? i feel yes...


in many things, science comes to a full stop here or there.. for example, in astronomical sciences, science says that there is black hole where things go lost by changing the realm maybe.... who has endavoured to try to find that such blackhole exists in our spirits and souls too... where we feel lost, and when found, we enter a new world (of AVATAR) maybe

Milarepa wrote:

This is true, i'm glad you're highlighting it. A careful middle path should be observed in all this. If we use our intellect to analyze the experience to almost nothing, we do ourselves a disservice. And the expereince isn't useful. Every person has their own capabilities of how far they should seek to understand things, or just let it be. Prob someone whom is in a teaching capacity giving immense personal time could justifiably advise from the outside, but largely a person gotta make their own call. It's why i highlighted mindfullness earlier. It's not just thinking about one thing, it's also about being aware of when you're becoming out of focus, or, for lack of a better word, your 'ego' is getting in the way. If a person is mindful, they can walk the middle path and avial of the best of all ways. Or, someone not academic they could just concentrate on practical expereinces. different ways for different folks.

For some reason, the use of the intellect is frowned upon with westerners involved in spirituality. I feel it's a lot of 'jumping on the bandwagon', and folks aren't thinking out what they're saying. There's so much history & experience with folks using their intellect in spirituality and it's actually advanced them! In fact, i'd wager there's evidence that prob every spirtual path each of us here do, that things have came about at least in part via the intellect of others. We should embrace all that makes us human, not feel any part unworthy.

all above is found in total agreement of our observation yes, paths vary, and the 'mix' also does! academic side, etc is of equal importance... it carries wisdom extracted from a big globe of time and history, and without such wisdom neither we can take a start in anything, nor we can meaningfully conclude what we have found in the end, may it be a revealatoin even!!

i often feel that when we lose ability to describe things, we might sometimes lose the very experience we were trying to describe!

Milarepa wrote:

I became involved in Reiki, and really hadn't a clue why i was doing what i did = Tarteel

Then i began to study the whole thing, experience & system/concepts = Ta-wil

Because of the reason & deduction, my perception changed immensely, barriers i never knew existed came down, and then came the blissful moments = Tanzeel.

wonderful application of thought proess Wayne really adorable! and totally agreed ! you seem to know so much about about so many things


take care

salman

like the black hole theory its possible
that some of us are there and understand
it. While others are not there yet.Could
be where each of us are on life's journey.
Old age is not always filled with wisdom.
Some of us like myself are on-going learners
and don't have all the answers cause the
answers come from within us. I personally do
not rely on what has been handed down through
the years. Life is always changing as we move
forward. The basics remain the same we
experience birth and death. born.died life is
what happens in between the dot. That reminds me



HAPPY BIRTHDAY! salman

thats so very true Bridget

we all spend our lives with half-truth... the extent we can reach with our specific perception is often the complete truth for us, which never is !


thanks for the heartily wishes...

blessings share too!


take care

salman

Hi folks,
i'll try to respond properly later today, especially to Salman. I'm pretty sick last few days.

take care
Wayne

Lambs-Wool wrote:

Milarepa wrote:
you explained it pretty well buddy, . yeah, one moment we exist, and the next we don't exist, this happens countless times every second. It's real interesting though, (and scientist havn't found this out yet, so i dunno if we can hehe) that no-one can tell exactly where everything goes once it's disappeared!

adding to the bold portion above, Wayne do you remember that Muslims believe in 99 names of Allah, and two of them are Uhyi'i and U'meet'u (meaning the one who gives life and the one who gives death)... although, this is often believed to be referring to the fact that Allah has the command over life n death, but i feel that the attributes of every name of Allah exist every moment... so, what i feel, that HE is making us life every moment, after giving us death every moment... it could be a stupid belief, i know, but this just springs from my inner observation...

It's great you've brought this up Salman! It's a major reason why i find religious texts so fascinating. 1500 years ago, or 4000 years ago, folks couldn't have described reality in the way quantum physics can now. They just wouldn't have understood it. So they had to speak in ways which would appeal to the masses, since religion was such a big thing, it was a no-brainer what platform to use. This is where the esoteric meanings of scriptures are becoming more & more understood. It's becoming real clear, that someone or something with advanced knowledge of not just our solar system, but our galaxy, and even our world at sub-atomic level, was able to deliver that knowledge to us, in an open yet not so open secret way.

Milarepa wrote:
It really inspires me quantum physics & spirituality. Particularly when i see science wrote in religious scriptures. All the time there's validation going on, things said from maybe 5000 years ago!

Lambs-Wool wrote:
and we can couch reliance from many historical facts and events.... for example, the construction of pyramids, the water-systems in many ancient buildings and palaces, where water would flow just by utilizing gravitational pull in a very master way..

in the world of medicines, the herbal medicine, the hoemeopathy, etc. seem to be existing far earlier than the modern medicinal theory exposed such truths to the books and literature of medica.....

exactly. Here's something else. The Sumerians were able to decribe all our planets, including the ones not known until the last 100 years. AND... the also said another planet after Pluto. For a couple decades this has been slowly dawning on science there may be another planet. Within the last 2 weeks, astronomers have said they are certain there's another planet, cause of gravitational anomolies! Hey, if we're only findiong out ourselves now with all our technology, how these sumerians know about it 8000 years ago! It's also worth noting, the Sumerians have wrote in clay tablet how humans were created, and in many ways it's similar to the book of Genesis.

Lambs-Wool wrote:
like Sharon said in some thread, that rishis, saints, spiritual people had known certain facts by their 'instinct' which modern day science knows by experimentation and discourse...

so may this be leading us to believe that science accounts for only a part of knowledge and not the whole of it ? i feel yes...

for sure, folks can know things via instinct, some things are too precise, and too out of our mental capability to say that's the only way though, .

Modern day science is only one way of knowing things. We can see where one way is solely focussed on it largely leads to disregard for other ways. Really though, science & spirituality have the same destination, it's walking different ways. Taking a leaf out of the Dalai Lama's 'book', he educates himself immensely in science, and has even published work showing how much in agreement things are.

My own views, which i've only begun researching less than 7 weeks ago, are that possibly, a non-natural event lead to abrubtly Homo erectus/Homo habilis being an ingredient in homo sapien. This non-natural event was told to humans in a scientific way, and spoke about in the clay-tablets of sumeria. It's been handed down, and changed into a new format, largely related to the times, such as the book of Genesis. This is why religious scriptures are being found to have so much in common with modern science. Cause they're actually based on science. ultimately, there's no seperatedness, or division, between science & religion. Of course (this goes to my earlier point), someone whom concentrates one one way will only see the validity of one way!

Take care
Wayne