Pyschosis after detox and reiki

Hi there,
My daughter recently completed a 7-day detox with yoga, meditation and reiki. At the end of the course, she felt a different state of consciousness - an enhanced feeling of well-being, clear memory, increased perception and creativity.
Unfortunately, this developed into a deeper altered state of consciousness  where she appeared to be in the theta state. This continued and deepened over the next days until she became psychotic and highly distressed. This full-on semi-consciousness, distress, anxiety, not sleeping and muscle jerks lasted for five nightmare days until we got her hospitalized and she was given medication for psychosis. Even so, it was the next day before she started to feel calm (thanks to valium), although still not in control.
In the five days prior to hospitalization, the reiki master was present but did not offer to help but simply said that she needed someone to collect her and take her home.
Taking her home was not an easy matter as this was in Thailand and home is Britain. Even the journey to hospital was a terrible trail for her as she became distressed throughout the journey although she has said in one lucid moment that she needed help and wanted a doctor.
In all, it took 12 days before she was close to functioning normally. Not a nice experience!
I'd be grateful for any opinions on this.

How do you feel this applies to Reiki, or reiki?

That's really why I am asking what anybody thinks - to see if it could be linked to Reiki in any way.
It's a place to start, trying to find out what happened and Reiki is the last thing she did apart from a general massage.
The Reikii practioner states on his website that he takes people into the Theta state and I believe that is the state that she was still in when I got to her - she was walking around as if in a dream, not visually focusing and talking about 'being on a path,' that it was 'too much to handle,' about needing to give a message to people and other similar things which had no connection.
So I'm certainly not 'accusing' Reiki, just trying to find answers.

Well, there is no global much less local government regulation of Reiki or reiki. Once any person has the certificate of Reiki Master or Teacher or Whatever, they can market themselves to others as a spiritual teacher if so desired -- even if they simply filled out an online form and got an "instant" certificate with the title. They can even "self-attune" and print themselves up a certificate with a fancy title, and go into practice. How they go about whatever activities they do after the fact is entirely up to them.

My gut reaction to the symptoms your daughter experienced is that it's not anywhere near related to Reiki or reiki... ingestion or inhalation of hallucinogenic drugs, yes, Reiki or reiki alone, not at all.

What substances did she consume while at this retreat? Was incense burned, if so, who was the manufacturer or what was it made of? Was the water clean like we have grown to expect in Western countries, or not? Were the foods she consumed certified organic? I don't need answers to those questions, but they may be worthwhile for you to consider.

If I had a daughter who had those symptoms and underwent that experience, I would begin to research symptoms from narcotics, and try to find out what are the spiritual drugs-of-choice in that area of Thailand. I would even research side effects of parasites from that region. Once parasites are in the bloodstream, they can cause the brain to produce all sorts of chemicals that may reap havoc on a persons usual daily life.

To summarize my opinion, Reiki, no, Something Else, definitely.

Thank you so much for your kindness in taking the time and trouble to reply to me.
The centre where she attended the course said it was as if she was on a bad acid trip, but they didn't think it could be as it had lasted so long.
One of my first questions to my daughter was if she had been bitten. At first she said that she had and that it was ants. When I asked her about the possibility of mosquitos, she agreed to that too but wasn't able to tell me any more about it. I couldn't see any obvious marks on her body - although her feet were badly burned with large blisters (nearly 3cm in diameter) on both the sole and side of her feet which I can only think came from walking on the hot sand. (She was frightened at one point and kept saying that she couldn't feel anything.)
When we got her to the hospital, they did extensive blood tests for all drugs plus a brain scan and everything was all clear. The only thing they found was a slight reduction in white blood cells but no drugs. It was after this that they diagnosed her with a psychotic break.
I'm pleased you say that it wasn't Reiki though as I'd like to find that there was a more tangible cause. I completely take your point about the Reiki master and lack of regulation which does of course apply to so many things.
I wonder though if there is any way that it could have been the mix of meditation, detox/fasting, yoga, Reiki.
I don't know if this could be anything to do with it but she does suffer from ME/CFS. She is almost well from this but decided to do the detox with Reiki to try and completely clear herself of it.
Thank you again for your time.

Hi jackie h,

Firstly, my thoughts are with you going through this - I do hope you have support around you - .

Let me say that I think LightBody is on the right direction in terms of possible agents or triggers for this long-term reality shifts, psychosis...

But would also say that there has been stories of "kundalini-triggered-psychosis" - although there is no real evidence for this at all - because there is no real ("scientific") evidence of this prana/chi/energy/reiki existing at all.

Now my thoughts is that, if she was playing around with drugs - for how long (what state was she in?), did she play around with more exotic drugs (there are even legal strong hallucinogenics that are accessible that will put you into the states you describe your daughter in, I will mention some of my suspects (but not in public fora) and you could enquire further with doctors etc)

kindly

f

Many thanks for your support and thoughts!

As far as I know, my daughter wasn't voluntarily or knowingly taking any drugs. I'm sure all parents say this!
However the reason for me saying this is that she was tested extensively at the hospital for drugs and her blood tests came back as completely clear. Added to which, she is very health conscious, a very regular practitioner of yoga and mediation and was planning on embarking on a yoga instructor course. Also, she's 31 and has spent many years abroad including in Asia, both living and working as well as travelling, so's it's not as if she is new to foreign places and pitfalls.
I did ask her if she thought that maybe she had been given a drug in a drink without her knowing and, in a lucid moment, she said that she had wondered that herself. But the hospital blood tests seemed to disprove that.
Additionally, she was in this state for quite a long time - six days. After this time, she was on medication from the hospital which took care of the panic attacks but she was still not 'connected' properly to real life for several days after this. I would say ten days in all.
I too have read about this kundalini-triggered-psychosis, although I am still not really sure what it is about. It's not until I can find out what has happened that I will feel secure that it won't happen again.

all possibilities should be explored. Including what exactly went on in the Reiki initiation. What process was being used. This might be possible for us to guess-timate if your daughter was able to provide (via you) a copy of her lineage. If you ask her about that, she should have been gave it in her Reiki training. We can see if there may be some obvious indications (by the names listed) as to what they may have heaped into what can be loosely termed ' traditional Reiki training'. I support both what Frank and lightbody say. I had what i assumed where reactions, psychotically, to a certain form of Reiki training. Though to be honest, I was also having lots of others 'attunements' then. Perhaps ya could ask your daughter how many attunements she had, and were they different styles/systems?

Please keep us updated, as a lack of contra-indications in Reiki does not mean there never will be any. It's the forum's purpose to generate alternative/controversial content, in order for the community to be able to critically examine the data presented, and challenge their own beliefs in a safe way.

I'll share this in social media now also.

Warmest wishes

Wayne

Hmm. Many years ago I was working with adults with moderate to severe mental health problems, and I came across a reference that said that deep relaxation can trigger psychosis in susceptible people, and we did have a couple of people that declined to attend the relaxation sessions I was running at the time. I wonder if this is what happened to your daughter? I have to say that I have never been able to stand this reference up since, and every doctor I have asked about it (GPs, psychiatrists...) say they have never heard of it.

Yet, it is really interesting that you came across this initially. i wonder, did standardised understanding simply change around that time, of thereafter. I'd be interesting in finding out any possible source for the kind of info you just provided. Might consullt the great oracle google later. thank-you for sharing this Chris.

warmest wishes

Wayne

A little uncomfortable reading this, as we are tending toward remote diagnosis, even though the question was sincere and the concern is very real.

Having said that, I do wonder about nutrition during the retreat.  But you did say that blood tests came back normal.  From anecdotes, detoxes can be consciousness-altering.

Also, some psychoses have a late teen/early twenties onset -- that I've heard of, I have no psychiatric or neurological expertise.  

And, wondering what the Reiki Master meant by Theta state?  Brain wave activity?  Or just a buzzword?  Sounds a little sketchy -- is there a brochure or online ad for this we can look at?

Sounds like father is doing all the right things, to inquire into this and understand as best he can what's going on.  Certainly a lot of variables at play.  I hope for the best for the whole family.

I'll follow this thread, my thanks for its posting on Facebook.

I see by rereading that your daughter is 31, so discount somewhat my remark about onset of some psychoses.

Blisters on the feet - did they perhaps do a firewalk?

My emergency medical technician training is wondering about trauma, also. Does she remember any of the retreat or the time afterward?

I hope you have some very gentle and sensitive health care providers in play.

Here's what a quick search brought up on the "Theta" keyword:

http://www.reiki-healing-touch.com/&theta_healing

Sounds like Reiki has been conflated with this ThetaHealing idea, a trademarked technique. I've been practicing and teaching Reiki over a decade, and this is the first I've heard of this.

Also checked Wikipedia, Mayo Clinic and Webmd. Theta brain waves are the slowest before delta. It seems like there's some implication that theta is "going deeper", and that miraculous things can happen if you consciously "slow" your brain waves.

I remember brain wave research from the 60's, with biofeedback, sensory deprivation, and many other things. Could be something to it. Guidance and lineage seem important for this kind of exploration. Even the old masters with strong guidance sometimes flamed out; they would take great risks to reach for cosmic consciousness.

Hope that helps in some way.

aronaya wrote:Here's what a quick search brought up on the "Theta" keyword:

http://www.reiki-healing-touch.com/&theta_healing

Sounds like Reiki has been conflated with this ThetaHealing idea, a trademarked technique.  I've been practicing and teaching Reiki over a decade, and this is the first I've heard of this.

Also checked Wikipedia, Mayo Clinic and Webmd.  Theta brain waves are the slowest before delta.  It seems like there's some implication that theta is "going deeper", and that miraculous things can happen if you consciously "slow" your brain waves.  

I remember brain wave research from the 60's, with biofeedback, sensory deprivation, and many other things.  Could be something to it.  Guidance and lineage seem important for this kind of exploration.  Even the old masters with strong guidance sometimes flamed out; they would take great risks to reach for cosmic consciousness.

Hope that helps in some way.

Good to hear your opinion here on RLL.  

Thank you, glad it's still out here!

aronaya wrote:Thank you, glad it's still out here!

so am I .....
do you have any Reiki events
coming up soon..... 

Hi all,
Apologies I have been away from the forum for a while. I wanted to see how my daughter settled back in to day-to-day living and the good news is that she is doing well, although this has had a large impact on us all. I also wanted to get permission from her to post on here, which is also OK.

I don't think it is right that I mention the healing centre by name, but here is a quote about the system used:

You will be initiated into the 8th Generation of the Usui system of natural healing.
Tradition Reiki Family Tree
Dr Mikao Usui
-
Dr Chujiro Hayashi
-

About the Theta state, the health centre in question says on their website that 'many students' enter the Theta state. And that this is the same brain wave frequency as hypnosis or dreaming. This is exactly how my daughter appeared to be - almost in a trance with a far away, unfocused gaze, not answering questions appropriately and not connecting properly with what was going on. Because this was not a short occurrence but lasted for around a week, it was a very bad situation and it was only because she was looked after at the hospital and given anti-psychosis drugs that she finally had relief from the extreme anxiety attacks.
Many thanks for all your thoughts.

that 'family tree' was there a name between Usui and Hayashi? Usually teachers show more than those two names in their lineage. Though not always, hehe. closer to Usui the general acceptance is the ahem, better, or ahem-ahem, more powerful the training!

The above training (theta blah blah blah) whatever it is has got nothing to do with Reiki. Reiki training, largely is a really enjoyable experience. but if other things are included, particularly by people who dont know any better (despite what a so called 'diploma' or title says) then this kinda thing is bound to occur. To someone. At some times.

Thanks for dropping by. Spread the word among those lesser non-Reiki humans that we're here also! Hehehe.

Warmest wishes

Wayne

Hi there!
Just to clarify about the family tree, there are 8 levels in fact. It's just that I didn't want to identify the Reiki master.
But he is a '7th generation Traditional Reiki Master.'
And many thanks for clarifying that Theta is nothing to do with Reiki. That's interesting although it does however make me even more concerned about the place!
With best wishes.

jackie h wrote:Hi there,
My daughter recently completed a 7-day detox with yoga, meditation and reiki. At the end of the course, she felt a different state of consciousness - an enhanced feeling of well-being, clear memory, increased perception and creativity.
Unfortunately, this developed into a deeper altered state of consciousness  where she appeared to be in the theta state. This continued and deepened over the next days until she became psychotic and highly distressed. This full-on semi-consciousness, distress, anxiety, not sleeping and muscle jerks lasted for five nightmare days until we got her hospitalized and she was given medication for psychosis. Even so, it was the next day before she started to feel calm (thanks to valium), although still not in control.
In the five days prior to hospitalization, the reiki master was present but did not offer to help but simply said that she needed someone to collect her and take her home.
Taking her home was not an easy matter as this was in Thailand and home is Britain. Even the journey to hospital was a terrible trail for her as she became distressed throughout the journey although she has said in one lucid moment that she needed help and wanted a doctor.
In all, it took 12 days before she was close to functioning normally. Not a nice experience!
I'd be grateful for any opinions on this.

What is your daughter's first name? When I get it I'll send her an attunement.

One more thing, Reiki will do no harm, unless she was having some prior issues. Sometimes reiki will start to flush them out. Similar to running water into a container filled with soap. The positive energy" water", will flush out the negative energy" soap".

In order to flush out the soap the water must be run until it is clear.

But Reiki practitioners, being human, may get confused about ethical boundaries, give bad advice, act without permission, and any number of other actions that may cause harm and violate client trust. So, we must be mindful.

aronaya wrote:But Reiki practitioners, being human, may get confused about ethical boundaries, give bad advice, act without permission, and any number of other actions that may cause harm and violate client trust.  So, we must be mindful.

A good reiki practitioner will give the reiki and let the reiki run its course. Now if a receiver asks the practitioner for advice, the practitioner may give his opinion as long as tge receiver knows that it is just that.as an example of a person with diabetes were to ask a person hey how would you change your diet if you had diabetes? Than a practitioner may give the receiver an answer.


However if a person were to want to receive reiki for a broken leg and it hadnt been set by a physician yet. Than a practitioner would be foolish to offer the reiki until its been set.