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    Bruce
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    martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Bruce on Sun May 24, 2009 2:32 am

    My reiki teacher mentioned that in his experience, reiki students who had practiced martial arts immediately had wide-open energy channels compared with most reiki students who didn't come from a martial background.

    And I suspect that martial training helps with my intent to move energy into someone, past the surface of that person's body. It's the same energy intent as in striking -- reach into the recipient, beyond the surface -- except of course without meaning to harm.

    (Addendum: I'm not suggesting that the preceding are unique to martial training; instead, I'm just suggesting that martial practice helps to develop those features, and that such features are also useful for the healing arts.)

    I'm interested in whether anyone has experienced other benefits that carry over from martial arts to healing arts. I'd also be interested in whether anyone has noticed any adverse correlations between martial training and healing training -- I haven't seen any such negative relation, but I'm curious.

    Bruce
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    Pandora
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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Pandora on Sun May 24, 2009 3:10 am

    I once had a student who did a number of martial arts, who came to learn Reiki because his instructor said he needed balancing energy. (I can never remember which is hot energy - is it yin or yang? Anyway he needed the other.) I didn't notice anything different about his energy channels, but I did see a energy pop above an old back injury he had when I was demonstrating healing on him.
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    Rlei_ki
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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Rlei_ki on Sun May 24, 2009 7:03 am

    Bruce wrote:My reiki teacher mentioned that in his experience, reiki students who had practiced martial arts immediately had wide-open energy channels compared with most reiki students who didn't come from a martial background.

    As you say, this is not unique to those with martial arts training. You'll find that generally, people involved in a certain physical disciplines - gymnasts, swimmers, professional dancers, for example - will also have an 'open' energetic system.

    Now, as to just how much of this is due to anything beyond the simple fact that their disciplines cause them to be physically fitter and (usually) healthier than many other people, I woudn't care to speculate.

    [Oddly though, having treated several dancers over the years for 'occupational injuries', I have noticed that ballet dancers - at least the ones I've encountered - considering their level of fitness, seemed much less energetically 'open' than other dancers (students of 'contemporary' dance) I've treated]

    Obviously, with regards to martial artists, those who train in arts with a 'soft' / 'internal' component are going to be more active/aware on a subtle-energy level than many people who do not have experience of interacting with their own/other peoples energy.


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    Thaak
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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Thaak on Sun May 24, 2009 8:04 am

    wow, great topic! I do have a couple thoughts on this.

    As James has said, this can be seen with many different physical arts.

    When you reach a certain level of Martial training, dancing, gymnastics, or anything that requires top physical production with either a level of intensity or artistic flair to leave observers gasping with emotion, you tend to leave behind the ego and work directly from source.

    My shamanic instructor would call this the epitome of Ayni (reciprocal exchange) and Munay (dissolving the "I" into "One".)

    Its at a moment when true perfection can be achieved by simply not trying to achieve, but just existing with in the moment of action and exulting in it for the sake of the action. To transmit the emotion of that action as you feel it, to all those who observe it in one fashion or another.

    In martial training, you'll notice that strikes and defenses, without variation, rely upon ultimate physical efficiency. My instructor's definition of intensity is maximum physical and mental focus and intensity at point of impact. You torque your entire skeletal-muscular structure into an efficient line of force or reflection of force (for strikes and defenses). It is not a coincidence that without variation, these efficient lines of force parallel or even use the meridians or energy lines within our body.

    So the more you train this physically, it will have a causal effect upon you energetically. The energetic body and the physical body are wholly intertwined and as one is affected, so is the other, equally.

    I don't know much about ballet, so I can't speak as to why James's experience with dancers is different between ballet dancers and contemporary. But having watched "So You Think You Can Dance" the last 4 summers (and will again this summer), I can attest to the fact that most of the contemporary, jazz, and lyrical dancers have a very organic flow to their movement that allows them to portray the emotion of a piece of music with what appears to be minimum of effort. They are essentially an artist of movement. My limited experience with Ballet, is that it is a very structured style of dance, and the emotion only is portrayed by the absolute pinnacle of ballet dancers, those who have been able to transcend the structure into pure art. If you watched Superstars of Dance earlier this year, you would have seen one of the solo finalists (I think she took 1st place?) was one of the best Russian ballet dancers right now. She, I felt, was able to transcend the structure to perform with pure art of movement.

    On another note, one thing that my shamanic instructor has told me, is that martial arts, the physical part of energetic training, as she put it, is a great way to keep yourself grounded, balanced, and centered. Because, dependent on style, at some point you learn about your energetic center and how to anchor it to the earth and use it as a fulcrum for your movement.

    The style I train doesn't teach this overtly, but all the physical training they teach shows you how to physically do this. As you get advanced (black belt and further) as I have, you start to learn on your own how to connect the dots between your energetic work and your physical work. You learn how to use that energetic fulcrum.

    Some styles start the energetic (Chi) training from the very basic classes.

    In Dance, you can't be a true artist, someone that can transmit that emotional state through art of movement, without having mastered the art of using the energetic fulcrum (even if you don't know that's what you are doing.)

    All this, balancing, centering, grounding, efficiency of movement of the energetic fulcrum, results in a cleansing of the meridians or energy lines both inside and outside the physical body.
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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Pandora on Sun May 24, 2009 7:09 pm

    Interesting about the correlation between dancers and sportsmen - I suppose it explains why cricketers have won Strictly Come Dancing twice in 4 years! Cricket is a very zen activity... Shocked
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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Milarepa on Sun May 24, 2009 9:14 pm

    Havn't noticed anything adverse. Physical activity is very important in a spiritual path. I guess it doesnt' matter what is it really.

    There's a saying that 'someone can stink of Zen', for a person who only does internal practices, as they can become withdrawn from the world.

    Take care
    Wayne


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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by chi_solas on Mon May 25, 2009 1:13 am

    We are all capable of high energy no matter what other skills
    we are endowed with. Artist/writers or any other archetype. IMO
    we all have the same ULFE. Personalities do enter into how we
    come across in the use of ULFE. If I'm doing martials arts
    dance,sports I need to use lots of physical energy. If I'm a
    Judge, writer, teacher I'm using mind energy. Reiki does
    encompose mind, body,spiritual energies that's why all
    our students/clients/recipient all have different experiences
    with the Reiki system and its ULFE
    sunny


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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Bruce on Mon May 25, 2009 2:13 am

    chi_solas wrote:We are all capable of high energy no matter what other skills
    we are endowed with. Artist/writers or any other archetype. IMO
    we all have the same ULFE. Personalities do enter into how we
    come across in the use of ULFE. If I'm doing martials arts
    dance,sports I need to use lots of physical energy. If I'm a
    Judge, writer, teacher I'm using mind energy. Reiki does
    encompose mind, body,spiritual energies that's why all
    our students/clients/recipient all have different experiences
    with the Reiki system and its ULFE
    sunny

    Actually, judges and writers generally don't exhibit much in the way of ULFE, platitudes notwithstanding.

    Bruce
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    Rlei_ki
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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Rlei_ki on Mon May 25, 2009 2:18 am

    Milarepa wrote:There's a saying that 'someone can stink of Zen', for a person who only does internal practices, as they can become withdrawn from the world.

    Hmm, over the years I've often heard the phrase, 'stinks of Zen' used in a derogatory way by one fighting school about another dojo.

    However the usual meaning behind the statement has nothing to do with folks concentrating on (genuine) internal practices. Rather it is usually intended to imply that the particular dojo is really not a proper martial arts training place at all.

    The statement alludes to the fact that from time to time you get socalled 'masters' (whose own training has probably been gained from reading a few early James Lee publications and watching a few Bruce Lee movies) setting up a dojo, or kwoon, and to get round the fact that they couldnt 'punch their way out of a paper bad', they claim that they teach their "Joe Smith's Art of the Fighting Terapin" (or whatever obscure name they choose for their made-up art) purely as a 'Zen discipline' rather than as a practical combat art.

    Of course, the idea that 'Zen'-related martial arts are less than intensely physical is a common misconception.

    Zen-related arts are all about the focused intensity of being 100% centred in the living real-world moment.
    .
    .
    .


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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Bruce on Mon May 25, 2009 2:49 am

    Rlei_ki wrote:
    Milarepa wrote:There's a saying that 'someone can stink of Zen', for a person who only does internal practices, as they can become withdrawn from the world.

    Hmm, over the years I've often heard the phrase, 'stinks of Zen' used in a derogatory way by one fighting school about another dojo.

    However the usual meaning behind the statement has nothing to do with folks concentrating on (genuine) internal practices. Rather it is usually intended to imply that the particular dojo is really not a proper martial arts training place at all.

    The statement alludes to the fact that from time to time you get socalled 'masters' (whose own training has probably been gained from reading a few early James Lee publications and watching a few Bruce Lee movies) setting up a dojo, or kwoon, and to get round the fact that they couldnt 'punch their way out of a paper bad', they claim that they teach their "Joe Smith's Art of the Fighting Terapin" (or whatever obscure name they choose for their made-up art) purely as a 'Zen discipline' rather than as a practical combat art.

    Of course, the idea that 'Zen'-related martial arts are less than intensely physical is a common misconception.

    Zen-related arts are all about the focused intensity of being 100% centred in the living real-world moment.

    Interesting views.

    I first came across the phrase "the stink of zen" as a statement that was made by zen practitioners, referring to a state in which insights from meditation were rather ungrounded because they had not yet been integrated into everyday activities.

    As for zen-related martial arts, they go back at least as far as the chan monks at the Shaolin temple. Zen also seems to have been rather popular among the samurai -- recall the association between Yagyu Munenori and Takuan Soho when Munenori was Tokugawa's sword master. Those practitioners were martially capable as well as philosophically contemplative.

    (Some years ago, a humorous counterpoint came in the form of a letter to a martial art magazine, ranting about the way that martial arts had become too "philosophical." Unfortunately, the letter had a point that was related to what James observed above -- some people try to use philosophical pronouncements as a substitute for hands-on martial training. In the old days, the practice of closing schools by challenge might have enforced a bit of quality control. We're now getting the benefits and drawbacks of a more "civilised" time, and that has more to do with broad societal shifts than with any particular philosophy.)

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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Milarepa on Mon May 25, 2009 2:58 am

    Sorry, i wasn't making myself clear earlier, Smile . I was speaking purely form personal experience. In that generally, with spiritual disciplines, physical aspects have helped me, having that balance. Not nesseccarily martial arts.

    Rlei_ki wrote:

    However the usual meaning behind the statement has nothing to do with folks concentrating on (genuine) internal practices. Rather it is usually intended to imply that the particular dojo is really not a proper martial arts training place at all.

    Can't comment on what you've come across James, Smile . What i've come across is a different meaning, usually. The common meaning i've come across is, being more concerned with an attachment to an idea of (in this case) Zen. the phrase is used now to apply more generally to being so involved with something, to the exclusion of everything else. Hence my train of thought on someones personal Reiki, and doing an outward physical subject.

    take care
    Wayne


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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Thaak on Mon May 25, 2009 3:13 am

    chi_solas wrote:We are all capable of high energy no matter what other skills
    we are endowed with. Artist/writers or any other archetype. IMO
    we all have the same ULFE. Personalities do enter into how we
    come across in the use of ULFE. If I'm doing martials arts
    dance,sports I need to use lots of physical energy. If I'm a
    Judge, writer, teacher I'm using mind energy. Reiki does
    encompose mind, body,spiritual energies that's why all
    our students/clients/recipient all have different experiences
    with the Reiki system and its ULFE
    sunny

    I don't disagree that we are all capable of high energy.

    However, physical acts that use and emphasize the same lines that make up our meridians or energy lines can enhance our ability to focus, channel, use, sense, or feel this energy, because the physical act can be meridian cleansing.

    The physical act as well as a mental and spiritual understanding can really be a dynamic balanced whole if you let it.

    That isn't to say that those who don't regularly physically exercise can also reach the same spot. And it isn't to say that those who don't regularly mentally or spiritually exercise can't also reach the same spot.

    But combining the two is very enhancing on so many levels.

    And I think that's what this topic is about. Not about everyone's individual aptitudes and abilities to access ULFE. But rather certain practices that can enhance it on an exponential level.
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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Rlei_ki on Mon May 25, 2009 5:45 am

    Bruce wrote:... In the old days, the practice of closing schools by challenge might have enforced a bit of quality control...

    Well, as the fighting and healing arts have always been 'two sides of the one coin', I vote we re-introduce the challenge-based approach to 'quality control'
    - this time, to the various Reiki schools/styles .... Twisted Evil
    .
    .
    .


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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by chi_solas on Mon May 25, 2009 7:15 am

    Bruce wrote:
    chi_solas wrote:We are all capable of high energy no matter what other skills
    we are endowed with. Artist/writers or any other archetype. IMO
    we all have the same ULFE. Personalities do enter into how we
    come across in the use of ULFE. If I'm doing martials arts
    dance,sports I need to use lots of physical energy. If I'm a
    Judge, writer, teacher I'm using mind energy. Reiki does
    encompose mind, body,spiritual energies that's why all
    our students/clients/recipient all have different experiences
    with the Reiki system and its ULFE
    sunny

    Actually, judges and writers generally don't exhibit much in the way of ULFE, platitudes notwithstanding.

    Bruce

    Without ULFE none of us would exist. sunny

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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by chi_solas on Mon May 25, 2009 7:36 am

    Thaak wrote:
    chi_solas wrote:We are all capable of high energy no matter what other skills
    we are endowed with. Artist/writers or any other archetype. IMO
    we all have the same ULFE. Personalities do enter into how we
    come across in the use of ULFE. If I'm doing martials arts
    dance,sports I need to use lots of physical energy. If I'm a
    Judge, writer, teacher I'm using mind energy. Reiki does
    encompose mind, body,spiritual energies that's why all
    our students/clients/recipient all have different experiences
    with the Reiki system and its ULFE
    sunny

    I don't disagree that we are all capable of high energy.

    However, physical acts that use and emphasize the same lines that make up our meridians or energy lines can enhance our ability to focus, channel, use, sense, or feel this energy, because the physical act can be meridian cleansing.

    The physical act as well as a mental and spiritual understanding can really be a dynamic balanced whole if you let it.

    That isn't to say that those who don't regularly physically exercise can also reach the same spot. And it isn't to say that those who don't regularly mentally or spiritually exercise can't also reach the same spot.

    But combining the two is very enhancing on so many levels.

    And I think that's what this topic is about. Not about everyone's individual aptitudes and abilities to access ULFE. But rather certain practices that can enhance it on an exponential level.

    I was responding more to the inclusion of dance & sports around Martial arts.
    They all need to incorporate balance and harmony. I see all of life as one.
    Be it the Merdians/Chakras which I know are more than seven. I don't see one
    having more power over the other. Blockage needs to be cleared for any of
    the healing arts to be effecient. I am speaking from a layperson point of
    view. I do not have experience in the martials arts and as always I am a
    life long learner and find this subject interesting knowing that those who
    practice martial arts can teach me more.

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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Milarepa on Mon May 25, 2009 7:45 am

    chi_solas wrote:

    I was responding more to the inclusion of dance & sports around Martial arts.

    Capoeria is a perfect example. Martial arts disguised as dancing.


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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Bruce on Mon May 25, 2009 8:17 am

    chi_solas wrote:
    Without ULFE none of us would exist. sunny

    Like Andy, I refer you to the context of this discussion thread. That should clarify what's being discussed.

    Bruce

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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Bruce on Mon May 25, 2009 8:22 am

    Milarepa wrote:
    chi_solas wrote:

    I was responding more to the inclusion of dance & sports around Martial arts.

    Capoeria is a perfect example. Martial arts disguised as dancing.

    Somewhat off topic: a capoeira teacher that I know swears that another capoeira teacher invented breakdancing. Martial art disguised as dance, which allows it to survive as a martial art, which then creates non-martial dancing?

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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Milarepa on Mon May 25, 2009 8:24 am

    hehe, that's a bit of a tongue-twister!


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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Rlei_ki on Mon May 25, 2009 10:34 pm

    [quote="Bruce"]
    Milarepa wrote:[... a capoeira teacher that I know swears that another capoeira teacher invented breakdancing.

    Well, there are certainly obvious parallels between break-dancing and Capoeira.

    There is no doubt that break-dancing was definitely influenced by Capoeira though several people have questioned why, if break-dancing was a direct evolution of Capoeira, it apparently originated in the South Bronx amongst the primarily Puerto Rican community, rather than within New York's Brazilian community (in Queens)
    .
    .


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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by chi_solas on Mon May 25, 2009 10:58 pm

    Milarepa wrote:
    chi_solas wrote:

    I was responding more to the inclusion of dance & sports around Martial arts.

    Capoeria is a perfect example. Martial arts disguised as dancing.

    Like Reiki, Martials arts does ripple out.
    Capoeria and breakdancing does have that
    disguise that its not Martial arts. Basketball I
    droppped Dahn Yoga for that reason. They used
    the Martial arts as part of the yoga movements.
    I wanted my yoga experience to be more peace
    & Harmony less grunts of a warrior.

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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by chi_solas on Mon May 25, 2009 11:15 pm

    Bruce wrote:
    chi_solas wrote:
    Without ULFE none of us would exist. sunny

    Like Andy, I refer you to the context of this discussion thread. That should clarify what's being discussed.

    Bruce
    Sorry Bruce if I strayed flower

    Arrow Long live ULFE

    bounce sunny



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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Bruce on Mon May 25, 2009 11:24 pm

    Rlei_ki wrote:Well, there are certainly obvious parallels between break-dancing and Capoeira.

    There is no doubt that break-dancing was definitely influenced by Capoeira though several people have questioned why, if break-dancing was a direct evolution of Capoeira, it apparently originated in the South Bronx amongst the primarily Puerto Rican community, rather than within New York's Brazilian community (in Queens)

    Conspiracy theorists have suggested that Yang Luchan taught a "watered down" version of taijiquan to the Manchus who ruled China at the time, and that this was the art that became popularized. (I think there are enough Yang style masters out there to cast great doubt on the theory, and besides, it's not as if the Manchus wouldn't have noticed whether what they were taught was working or not. Instead, modification of the art seems to have been done by Yang Luchan's grandson, Yang Chengfu, but anyway . . . .)

    Conspiracy theorists might also try to explain away what James observed above by suggesting that some capoeiristas gave dance movements to the other guys, and simultaneously provided cover for their own groups to practice the martial stuff. I'm not saying that's what happened; just speculating on what paranoia might suggest.

    A bit of background, for anyone unfamiliar with capoeira. My main martial art teacher said that capoeira was the martial art of the Brazilian plantation slaves, who had to learn to fight even when their hands were chained together and so it looks unorthodox (with cartwheels, backflips, etc.). Following is a videoclip of a capoeira demo. (Gotta love youtube.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv-WMFWpjo0 In my untutored opinion, I think the practitioners are too far apart and move sort of randomly in the first 1/3 or so, but then they get closer and react more to each other's moves.

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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Bruce on Mon May 25, 2009 11:32 pm

    chi_solas wrote:Sorry Bruce if I strayed flower

    Sorry if I sounded grumpy. In my experience of being around judges, the sort of discursive analysis that they do just doesn't develop energy access. Writing lots of judicial opinions -- and I wrote quite a few of 'em in the times that I worked as a judicial clerk -- doesn't enhance healing ability. If anything, it distracts from the flow of healing energy. Commenting on what someone else observed, I don't know why some forms of dance, but not others, would help to develop energy access.

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    Re: martial arts and healing arts

    Post by Bruce on Mon May 25, 2009 11:35 pm

    Rlei_ki wrote:Well, as the fighting and healing arts have always been 'two sides of the one coin', I vote we re-introduce the challenge-based approach to 'quality control'
    - this time, to the various Reiki schools/styles .... Twisted Evil

    Yeah, I can see it now . . . .

    A: "My reiki is better than your reiki."

    B: "Is not."

    A: "Is too."

    B: "Back off, or I'll heal you."

    Sigh.

    Bruce

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