How long is your Level 3 training?

Thaak wrote:

I disagree. The fact that Usui taught the Seika Tanden shows that he did teach about Chakra's. Just using Japanese spirituality terminology instead of Chinese or Vedic.

How so? Svadhistthana can just as easily be Seika Tanden, as the other way round. The Japanese seem to be doing quite fine with their own energetic system, which doesn't have as many centres as the Vedic. There's already plenty to do with the Seika tanden,, and the endocrine system, without getting it more complicated with all the chakras. The hara is the whole lower abdomen, of which there is only one energy centre, the Seika tanden. There's no mention of Manipura.


Of course, one can choose to leave out the Seika Tanden, that though illustrates my point of leaving Reiki things out at the expense of other non-Reiki stuff.

It's not a fact Usui sensei taught anything to do with the Seika Tanden. . More like an educated guess, coupled with 'originality' sources.

Thaak wrote:
And additionally, since Usui taught his own spirituality within his Reiki healing system, then it can be said that the Founder of this system didn't leave his own personal spirituality out of his teaching of Reiki.

The founder of a spiritual path does tend to do this. If you, or anyone else founds a spiritual path, it's Andy's path, or Waynes. Noty Usui sensei's. .

Take care
Wayne

And to answer both of your posts... there-in lies the problem.

You are assuming that because I use the word Reiki, that I am also teaching/learning/practicing Usui Reiki. Even if I profess to teach under Usui's lineage, does not mean that the teachings can't change.

You ever play the game of telephone? You know that when you have a "word-of-mouth" system, that things change after passing through several people. Each little subtle change eventually creates a major change. Its inevitable.

Now that doesn't mean that I'm going to go out and change the system, bank off Usui's name, and create a nice little monetary or "spiritual" windfall for myself. Some people obviously have done that.

As you can see, I've been attuned to several different energy systems that are fundamentally similar to Reiki in how the protocols work. I don't bill myself (actually don't really do any marketing for myself, which is probably why my clientelle isn't that large and I can't support myself on a Reiki practice alone) as a Reiki Practitioner as Usui would have done it.

I bill myself as an energy worker who happens to have access to Reiki, which supports the facilitation of a healing session, and helps the client relax and find their own healing being. I can also teach a class and attune you to Reiki.

But as you can tell by my posts, I have had some very strong experiences with my shamanic work. That is the lineage I wish to pursue more spiritual knowledge in. I believe that Reiki and shamanism work very well together. They synergize nicely.

I also feel that taking bits and pieces from different spiritual systems to fit a nice understandable conglomeration is beautiful. My shamanic teacher, who teaches and Incan tradition, has done extensive study in Zen Buddhism and other eastern indigenous practices. She has interwoven many meditation practices from Vedic, Buddhist, Yoga, and Incan into her teachings. She doesn't hesitate to tell you when a teaching is not pure Incan, that it is her own variation on combining two lineages. But the basis for her teaching is the Incan medicine wheel.

As for which energetic system can I find more information on?

Are you kidding me? I can go online and google or go to amazon and find at least 10 to 1, more English language books on Chakras than I can on the Japanese energy system.

Obviously you can't truly learn what a Chakra is by just reading a book. You have to experience it. And true knowledge only comes after a long period of time of experience and practical study.

But there is much more knowledge out there on Chakra's than there is on the Seika Tanden. If I can't find enough information on the Seika Tanden to feel comfortable teaching about it, then I won't teach about it. About the extent of what I can teach about it right now, is its location, and that it is probably a simplification and derivative of the Chinese or Taoist Dantien.

Remember back on Reiki-4-All I was about to do a "disertation" on the Seika Tanden. I had been all up in arms about this particular argument and was going to do my best to show you up. Obviously I didn't do that, because ultimately I realized that there is no point to penis-wagging when talking about Reiki and other spiritual matters when everyones opinion matters.

But lets not forget, that 90% of Japanese culture was gotten from China and then simplified. Thus the "Three Jewels" of the Dantien became the Seika Tanden. The Chinese simplified the Seven Chakra's from India into the "Three Jewels" of the Dantien. Just like when cultures migrate, languages change, "Gods" change, beliefs change, etc.

You can see that in the fertile crescent where one of the first cities was El, named after the father god of the Sumerian pantheon. Then came a city Enlil, and then Marduk. As civilization grew northward up the valley of the Tigris and Euphrates, the son's of the father gods became the new father gods.

In Egyptian mythology Isis left northward across the sea. In Greek mythology Aphrodite came from the south sea from the Island of Crete. They are both the goddess of beauty and love and female fertility. It is not a stretch to postulate that Isis and Aphrodite are the same goddess, just named differently by a different culture with a different language and different mind set based on environment and survival factors.

Wotan was the father god of the Germanic Celts. Odin was the father god of the Vikings. Both stories are so similar, that scholars postulate they are one and the same God, just with a different name.

In Hebrew, Jesus is Jeshua. Yahweh and Jehovah are both different Hebraic pronunciations of the same word for God.

My whole point about this last bit of ramble, is that Chakra's are as effective to study for the use of Reiki as the Seika Tanden is. Why? Because essentially they are the same thing. One just happens to be defined differently by the culture that defines it. But when you look at the basis of the definition, its still the same thing.

Its (they) an (are) energy organ(s) that help(s to) balance our energy lines, nodes, and bodies with our physical body. Even ties our physical body to our energy bodies.

Part of being a shaman is midwifery. That doesn't necessarily mean the assistance in the physical birthing of a baby. It means that you help people in transition. This can me in assisting someone to die. To help their spirit make the transition to the other side peacefully, with relaxation and bliss. One of the processes to do such includes much work with unwinding the Chakra's in a certain pattern and then, with intent, lifting them out of their body.

One of our workshops we did (the West, a year ago) we actually did a modified version of this on each other, so that we could experience our own deathing. Quite an emotional experience let me tell you.

All I'm saying is, I personally don't feel there is any problem with combining different spiritual systems together to create a synergized whole that is stronger than the sum of the parts.

I also believe that finding this synergy is a personal journey for each individual person (which I also believe you are saying.)

As far as teaching Reiki goes? If I teach a Reiki class, I will start with a basic level 1 class, which introduces them to who Usui was, his discovery story, who Hyashi was, who Takata was, and all their importance. I will teach the hand positions and how they coincide with both the endocrine glands and the chakras, and give a brief spiel about energy as I see it. I'll also discuss the ethics of energy work, especially as it pertains to work in the US.

That's about all that's necessary for a level 1 class. If asked, I will discuss my personal spirituality and how I apply it to Reiki and Reiki to it. How Reiki was a huge influence in gaining/achieving my spiritual place.

As a student gains in experience and confidence in their own work. I will teach them a level 2 class. The level 2 class would entail of course the three basic symbols CKR, SHK, and HSZSN. There are a few meditations we can also cover to help them bond psychologically to these symbols. To help them gain their own personal information from them. But largely, this is a class to deepen the experience. This is the class where the student usually will make the decision to be just a practitioner, or where they will seek the spirituality behind Reiki.

There are many, many good books out there. Amy Z. Rowland, Dianne Stein, William Rand, Walter Lubeck, Arjava Petter, and many others have wonderful pages of text on how to do Reiki, how to combine Reiki with other systems, how to incorporate Chakras, what the Japanese techniques and terms are, et. al.

But having a fundamental understanding of an energy system is invaluable when learning energy work.

I just don't personally feel that a specific cultural terminology is necessary over another. It is wholly dependent on which one speaks to the individual.

For you, apparently, it seems you have a crisis as to what you should focus your study attention to. You even said that you've stopped teaching because you don't feel comfortable that you know enough about the Japanese spirituality of Mikao Usui to do the class justice or do just honor to Mikao Usui. And that is fine.

But mentioning Chakras, and referring folks to texts about Chakra's so that they can treat Chakra's with Reiki, doesn't mean I'm not teaching Reiki. It means that I'm suggesting that Reiki can be helpful to Chakras as Chakras are part of the being. Even to balance your own Chakras can be helpful for you as a practitioner, for a more balanced practitioner will be more effective in assisting their clients.

Ok, I've rambled enough for now.

Milarepa wrote:

Thaak wrote:
And additionally, since Usui taught his own spirituality within his Reiki healing system, then it can be said that the Founder of this system didn't leave his own personal spirituality out of his teaching of Reiki.

The founder of a spiritual path does tend to do this. If you, or anyone else founds a spiritual path, it's Andy's path, or Waynes. Noty Usui sensei's. .

Take care
Wayne

This is kinda where my disconnect with your argument is.

On one hand, you say that we shouldn't incorporate our own spirituality into our teaching. Yet you don't recognize that much of what you are talking about is a cultural spiritual system that was practiced along side the healing system. They became intertwined because Usui didn't just teach a system of healing like our medical schools teach you how to do brain surgery. He taught his spirituality along side his healing system. Because for him, his system of healing came from his beliefs, and his beliefs were strengthened by his sitori.

So am I to understand that you believe that I should teach Mikao Usui's spirituality to truly teach Reiki?

If that's so, then its going to be incredibly difficult for anyone to truly teach Reiki. Since Mikao Usui's spirituality was based on late 19th and early 20th century Japanese spirituality. Time has altered that enough, that it would be hard to know exactly what it was that he believed.

Additionally, one thing to understand about Buddhism, and why its been so accepted across Asia, is that it is more a philosophical system than a system of Religion. Its tenets are not mutually exclusive with other belief systems, unlike much of western religion. Christianity as a whole believes it is mutually exclusive to any other beliefs. Buddhism does not. You find this with the many different types of Buddhist sects across Asia, modified by the prevailing religion or belief system in the area prior to Buddhism coming along.

Buddhism is more of a spiritual system, rather than a religious one.

As such, that is why Reiki seems to fit into any belief system almost seamlessly.

And yet, it is still Reiki.

Thaak wrote:
So am I to understand that you believe that I should teach Mikao Usui's spirituality to truly teach Reiki?

Not at all, . You asked me this before bro. What exactly is the point of using Usui sensei's name? if one teaches Usui Reiki, by identifying Usui sensei with it, i feel they should at least strive to pass on what he taught.

'Reiki' on it's own, which doesn't attempt to identify anything with Usui sensei, can be used by anyone. The 'problem' is perhaps, folks aren't too quick to teach Andy Reiki, or Wayne Reiki, etc, it doesn't have the same automatic popularity as Usui Reiki. In reality, what we're teaching is Andy Reiki, or Wayne Reiki, so why not just say that?

Thaak wrote:
Buddhism is more of a spiritual system, rather than a religious one.

As such, that is why Reiki seems to fit into any belief system almost seamlessly.

And yet, it is still Reiki.

So will Yoga. Or Qigong, or T'ai Chi, or QT, . The way we incorporate it in our personal life is up to us. The way we then market it, or allude to it's identity with the rest of the world is a different matter.

As an aside, (now you mention Buddhism), yeah, there's some things in Reiki have Buddhist overtones. There's also Christian overtones also. In fact, there's overtones from other religions also. Maybe Usui sensei was all of them at once..

Take care
Wayne

Thaak wrote:
You are assuming that because I use the word Reiki, that I am also teaching/learning/practicing Usui Reiki.

i'm assuming nothing about you Andy. I havn't a clue what way you teach Reiki, or even if you're level 3. What i've been doing is talking generally about Reiki practitioners that chaange styles yet use the word 'Usui' to describe it.

Thaak wrote:
Are you kidding me? I can go online and google or go to amazon and find at least 10 to 1, more English language books on Chakras than I can on the Japanese energy system.

I never said that either. I said one can find out superficially the same amount about the Seika tanden, than one can about the chakras. Know how? By going and looking for it. . Just because something is readily available at our fingertips doesn't mean there are other things more worthwhile that actually need a bit more effort to find.

Thaak wrote:
because ultimately I realized that there is no point to penis-wagging..

penis-wagging works for me, if we're thinking of having that kind acompetition across the Atlantic, i think i know what that says about our ego hehe. Only joking, you made me laugh here bro.

Thaak wrote:
Just like when cultures migrate, languages change, "Gods" change, beliefs change, etc.

My whole point about this last bit of ramble, is that Chakra's are as effective to study for the use of Reiki as the Seika Tanden is. Why? Because essentially they are the same thing. One just happens to be defined differently by the culture that defines it. But when you look at the basis of the definition, its still the same thing.

Yeah, i know about the attempted correlation between religions, spirituality & cultures, it's part of my 'conspiracy theory' hobbies, hehe. While we're talking about this, it's been theorised that all knowledge, even sceintific, has it's roots in the Vedas.

I mentioned this in an earleir thread to you. If one uses the chakras, on the basis they may have pre-dated something else, then by that logic, to be consistent, should they not ascribe most if not all of their sprituality to the Vedas? Or, is the pre-dated reasoning only good for whatever a person personally decides? .

Thaak wrote:All I'm saying is, I personally don't feel there is any problem with combining different spiritual systems together to create a synergized whole that is stronger than the sum of the parts.

Me neither.

Thaak wrote:
I just don't personally feel that a specific cultural terminology is necessary over another. It is wholly dependent on which one speaks to the individual.

so, you're cool if you went ot a dojo to learn Aikido, but where taught Muay Thai?

Thaak wrote:
For you, apparently, it seems you have a crisis as to what you should focus your study attention to. You even said that you've stopped teaching because you don't feel comfortable that you know enough about the Japanese spirituality of Mikao Usui to do the class justice or do just honor to Mikao Usui. And that is fine.

Yeah, unfortunately this is true. I can't be honest with people and teach Usui Reiki, when i don't know what he taught. And i have to be honest. I can teach Reiki if i want, but it won't be Usui sensei's. So, per Japanese custom, i should be honour bound to rename it.

Thaak wrote:
But mentioning Chakras, and referring folks to texts about Chakra's so that they can treat Chakra's with Reiki, doesn't mean I'm not teaching Reiki.

Never said it did. If i'd that attitude, i wouldn't make a point of having all expresssion of Reiki welcome here. It's the first post ever made in this forum, .

I've already illustrated, within spirituality, how something is indentified with a founder, and how it's not. And when it shouldn't be. It's not Usui sensei's Reiki that is being taught, so why should we use his name. . .

Take care
Wayne

P.S. i wanted to use that smilie first, hehe.

Rob Spiller wrote:But If you are going to teach an awareness of the energy system, then are you going to mention chakra's ?
Now those that know me of old will know that I see no place at all in Reiki for the chakra system, it just isn't IMO needed, but there does have to be an awareness of it.

The main thing I think is to keep our own spiritual beliefs out of any training that we give. We may believe in angels and guides, but that is our belief. We may be Christian or Buddhist or what ever, but that once again is our belief. We are teaching our student about Reiki and also at the same time helping them/guiding them on their spiritual path, we are not giving them religious education.

The manual, that one day I may actually finish, is/will be split into sections and page colour coded. What is Reiki and what isn't will be clearly, or as clearly as can be, defined and although chakras, guides and angels have very much been introduced as Reiki to many people, none of those subjects have anything what so ever to do with the teachings of Mikao Usui et all and will be shown as such.

We as teachers really do have to sit down and think about what we are going to teach and how pure (?wrong word) we are going to be in what we teach.

Hi Rob
Well I disagree with keeping your spirituality out of Reiki - if you're guiding people on a spiritual path, what is wrong with giving examples, signposts and pitfalls from your own spiritual path?

But I do agree with the layout of your manual, and that is what I do when I teach Reiki and in my own manuals. I clearly highlight what the Reiki story is that I was taught: how recent discoveries in Japan have altered that story: and how Reiki has altered me and made the spiritual world more real to me.

Now do you notice "how recent discoveries in Japan have altered that story"? Because when I was taught Reiki I was taught that Usui was a Christian minister. We now know that wasn't true, thanks to the discovery and translation of his memorial. So what should I do? Should I teach what we now know to be false, in order to keep the integrity and purity of the Reiki as Mrs Takata taught it? Or should I "do my work honestly" and explain that that part of the story may have been added by Mrs Takata to make Reiki more palatable to a Western Christian public?

Pandora wrote:Because when I was taught Reiki I was taught that Usui was a Christian minister. We now know that wasn't true, thanks to the discovery and translation of his memorial. So what should I do? Should I teach what we now know to be false, in order to keep the integrity and purity of the Reiki as Mrs Takata taught it? Or should I "do my work honestly" and explain that that part of the story may have been added by Mrs Takata to make Reiki more palatable to a Western Christian public?

Hi Pandora,
Just quick before i take kids to school. There's no profo Usui sensei wasn't a Christian minister. Takata sensei only relayed what Hayashi sensei told her.

The 'make Reiki more palatable to US' is prob a myth. After all, Takata sensei taught Reiki largely at a time when the US was really seekign Japanese spirituality.

take care
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:

If one is teaching in school under the banner of 'education', this can be set alongside teaching under the banner of 'spiritual' or 'healing', they're all-encompassign terms. Though, like education, we are best learning maths in maths, and english in english. Granted there is slight overlap, it's negilible though.

Take care
Wayne

Wayne, I can't let this go without some comments regarding modern day education! Increasingly in UK schools you don't learn "maths" or "English": you study topics such as "The European Union" or "Space Travel", say. Then each specialist teacher aligns what they teach with that topic. So if I were teaching space travel as a maths teacher, I'd be teaching calculus (for trajectories), means of calculating velocities and speed, earth geometry (to work out where the touchdown's going to be), what light years are... and as an English teacher I'd be teaching about the importance of specifying the correct units (because not doing that totally screwed a recent, very expensive mission), how to write technical manuals and the importance of punctuation and grammar in conveying meaning... do you see what I mean? Personally I feel that argument about keeping subjects in boxes is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard!

I'll give you an example from my own specialism. I teach social policy for a UK university, and the first session of any year is always on the Victorians and how their social policy shaped our political and social economy. I finish this lecture with a discussion featuring the inmates of a Workhouse as recorded in the 1861 Census, which just happen to include my own ancestors. One year, a Somali student leaned back and said to me "Chris, this information is so very valuable. What are you going to do with it?" And do you know I couldn't answer? In fact I'm still trying to figure out an answer!

Milarepa wrote:

Pandora wrote:Because when I was taught Reiki I was taught that Usui was a Christian minister. We now know that wasn't true, thanks to the discovery and translation of his memorial. So what should I do? Should I teach what we now know to be false, in order to keep the integrity and purity of the Reiki as Mrs Takata taught it? Or should I "do my work honestly" and explain that that part of the story may have been added by Mrs Takata to make Reiki more palatable to a Western Christian public?

Hi Pandora,
Just quick before i take kids to school. There's no profo Usui sensei wasn't a Christian minister. Takata sensei only relayed what Hayashi sensei told her.

The 'make Reiki more palatable to US' is prob a myth. After all, Takata sensei taught Reiki largely at a time when the US was really seekign Japanese spirituality.

take care
Wayne

Wow that was quick! I got the information from the translation of Usui's tombstone, and also from Frank Arjava Petter and Walter Lubeck's work, and also from Diane Stein's work. I think Frank and Walter have spent a lot of time exploding the myth of Usui's Christianity. As for 1950s America seeking Japanese spirituality, well I have to say I find that a little far-fetched, America having just won the war by bombing two Japanese cities out of existence, and then being involved in a bloody conflict in Korea! We still have to explain why and how the myths (which have been disproved) around Usui came into being.

Thaak wrote:

If Usui's spirituality is ok to teach, and mine fits the healing system just as well as his did, then why is it not ok to teach Reiki from my perspective. One that I understand.

I do understand the concept of honoring the lineage. I also understand that over time, things that withstand will adapt to fit new cultures and new times. Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, goes unscathed by time and new places.

I think ultimately, for me personally, the trick will be to find a way to equally honor Usui and his system of Reiki as well as his spirituality, and also honor my own beliefs and spirituality as well. I think it lacks integrity and impeccability if I try to teach something that I don't fully believe or understand.

Andy, we seem to be of one mind on this! I especially like your final paragraph here. When Usui said "honour your teachers" he wasn't saying "honour MY teachers": I have to honour my teachers of which Usui is one. He may be the most important one at this time, and not in a few years - who am I to say where my spiritual path will take me?

I also like the way you put your skills in your sig - think I might copy...

Pandora wrote:

Milarepa wrote:

Pandora wrote:Because when I was taught Reiki I was taught that Usui was a Christian minister. We now know that wasn't true, thanks to the discovery and translation of his memorial. So what should I do? Should I teach what we now know to be false, in order to keep the integrity and purity of the Reiki as Mrs Takata taught it? Or should I "do my work honestly" and explain that that part of the story may have been added by Mrs Takata to make Reiki more palatable to a Western Christian public?

Hi Pandora,
Just quick before i take kids to school. There's no profo Usui sensei wasn't a Christian minister. Takata sensei only relayed what Hayashi sensei told her.

The 'make Reiki more palatable to US' is prob a myth. After all, Takata sensei taught Reiki largely at a time when the US was really seekign Japanese spirituality.

take care
Wayne

Wow that was quick! I got the information from the translation of Usui's tombstone, and also from Frank Arjava Petter and Walter Lubeck's work, and also from Diane Stein's work. I think Frank and Walter have spent a lot of time exploding the myth of Usui's Christianity.

They didn't 'exlpode' any myths, . They simply gave more unveifiable assumptions.

Pandora wrote:[
As for 1950s America seeking Japanese spirituality, well I have to say I find that a little far-fetched, America having just won the war by bombing two Japanese cities out of existence, and then being involved in a bloody conflict in Korea! We still have to explain why and how the myths (which have been disproved) around Usui came into being.

When Takata sensei was teaching full swing in the USA, the Master-students were learning from the 1960's or 1970's onwards. Buddhism was real big in US then, Zen Buddhism in particualr. Check it out, . It makes no sense Takata sensei would intentionally lie in order to stay away from Japanese Buddhism, when it was exaclty that that US folks had a great desire in.

Take care
Wayne

Pandora wrote:

Milarepa wrote:

If one is teaching in school under the banner of 'education', this can be set alongside teaching under the banner of 'spiritual' or 'healing', they're all-encompassign terms. Though, like education, we are best learning maths in maths, and english in english. Granted there is slight overlap, it's negilible though.

Take care
Wayne

Wayne, I can't let this go without some comments regarding modern day education! Increasingly in UK schools you don't learn "maths" or "English": you study topics such as "The European Union" or "Space Travel"..

That's cool. I can set my example of eductaion aside, and reiterate what i know about, Yoga, QT, and some martial arts, etc, and still have the same point, .

Take care
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:
so, you're cool if you went ot a dojo to learn Aikido, but where taught Muay Thai?

depends. I got my black belt at a dojo. Its company name is National Karate. Yet the style it teaches is an Americanized version of Tae Kwon Do. Furthermore, it is more of a sport version than a traditional version.

Ultimately, before I pay any significant money, I would do my research and find out if the school speaks to me. I'd do that with any teacher, including Reiki.

By the way, I believe that my signature indicates what level Reiki I am.

Milarepa wrote:
That's cool. I can set my example of eductaion aside, and reiterate what i know about, Yoga, QT, and some martial arts, etc, and still have the same point, .

Take care
Wayne

I wanted to make a comment regarding your comment on differing styles of Yoga. I actually had a dream about this response last night... chuckle... sad I know.

Anyways... I don't know much about Yoga, so I'm making a few assumptions here.

I'm assuming that all Yoga has a familiar or common ancestry?

If that is true, then Yoga is similar to Reiki. All styles of Yoga can be traced back to a similar origin/originator. But Yoga is thousands of years old, so the most popular styles survived and are very unique and invidualized from one another.

Reiki is not even a century old, and barely half that time in the Western World. We've had the conversation already about the proliferation of thousands of different styles of Reiki. How many will survive in a thousand years? Ten thousand?

I think you can see where I'm going with this?

Thaak wrote:

Milarepa wrote:
That's cool. I can set my example of eductaion aside, and reiterate what i know about, Yoga, QT, and some martial arts, etc, and still have the same point, .

Take care
Wayne

I wanted to make a comment regarding your comment on differing styles of Yoga. I actually had a dream about this response last night... chuckle... sad I know.

Anyways... I don't know much about Yoga, so I'm making a few assumptions here.

I'm assuming that all Yoga has a familiar or common ancestry?

If that is true, then Yoga is similar to Reiki. All styles of Yoga can be traced back to a similar origin/originator. But Yoga is thousands of years old, so the most popular styles survived and are very unique and invidualized from one another.

Reiki is not even a century old, and barely half that time in the Western World. We've had the conversation already about the proliferation of thousands of different styles of Reiki. How many will survive in a thousand years? Ten thousand?

I think you can see where I'm going with this?

yeah, i know what you're saying, and agree with you, . My point is, within yoga, there are specific schools, teaching in a specific way. Same as martial arts. Same as Reiki. If i teach Wado Ryu Karate, i have to teach according to a certain sylabus. If i teach Iyengar yoga, i gotta teach according to BKS Iyengars way. If i teach Usui Reiki, i should seek to teach what he taught. when one changes the system, the name changes. Look at Jikiden. Gendai. Komyo Kai. Komyo. All changes from what Usui sensei taught, and change even within those styles make a name change also.

It has turned out Usui Shiki Ryoho teachers, in large, havn't bothered to do the same. Even though it's 'offspring' have. .


for me the only issue is using a person's name to indentify a system that actually isn't his system.

For sure, there are many versions of Reiki, as there are Yoga, and martial arts. All are valid for whoever wants to learn them. though all yoga styles aren't Iyengar, all martial arts aren't Ninpo, all Reiki isn't Usui Reiki.

I do accept your point, but the above is my point also. Maybe we've got ours wires crossed, as we've shared a heck of a lot of information. Which, as always in our chat's has been really useful, and i appreciate, .

Take care
Wayne

lol... I just had a vision of Ramsbottom Reiki! Oh dear... it does't quite have the same ring to it as Usui Reiki!



On a serious point, if what I teach is not Usui Reiki, then what is it? Is it Reiki at all? Not even if I do the Reiki attunements and teach the hand positions and the Reiki history and symbols?

Pandora wrote:[.Because when I was taught Reiki I was taught that Usui was a Christian minister. We now know that wasn't true, thanks to the discovery and translation of his memorial. ....

The memorial doesn't really make much reference to what Usui sensei was not (except for stating that he was not ostentatious, and that hard as he tried, he was not [financially?] successful)

Nowhere on the Usui Memorial does it actually state that Usui-sensei was not a Christian Minister.

Nor does it state that he was not even a Christian.

In fact it does not refer to him being a follower of any one religion.

In Japan it has been - and still is - quite common for people to hold more to than one Religion at the same time.
The Japanese have a common saying: "Born into Shinto, Married Christian, Buried Buddhist"

As for 1950s America seeking Japanese spirituality, well I have to say I find that a little far-fetched...

Actually, up until the 1970's Takata-sensei practiced Reiki almost entirely in Hawaii. Probably the greater majority of those she treated (and also the relatively few she taught) were of Japanese, Okinawan, Korean, Filipino and even Puerto Rican descent (I'm not sure if they would even be considered American Ciizens prior to 1959 - when the status of Hawaii changed from one of 'US territory' to 'US State')

It was only in the mid 70's that Takata-sensei really began to teach significant numbers of "Anglo's" on the US Mainland (and also in Canada)...

We still have to explain why and how the myths (which have been disproved) around Usui came into being.

perhaps it is that we need to explain why and how the new myths (including the one about how various elements in the history as previously taught, have supposedly been disproved) came into being...

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Pandora wrote:lol... I just had a vision of Ramsbottom Reiki! Oh dear... it does't quite have the same ring to it as Usui Reiki!

However, if you say it in Japanese:

"Ohitsuji-no-shiri Reiki Ryoho"

it sounds quite impressive


reiki ni rei

James

Rlei_ki wrote:

Pandora wrote:lol... I just had a vision of Ramsbottom Reiki! Oh dear... it does't quite have the same ring to it as Usui Reiki!

However, if you say it in Japanese:

"Ohitsuji-no-shiri Reiki Ryoho"

it sounds quite impressive


reiki ni rei

James

Watch out Trademark office here I come!!!!

[quote="Pandora"][quote="Milarepa"]

Pandora wrote: As for 1950s America seeking Japanese spirituality, well I have to say I find that a little far-fetched

It isn't far-fetched at all. The San Francisco Renaissance and Beat movements had a number of poets and artists who were interested in Eastern spirituality, particularly Zen Buddhism. Jack Kerouac, Gary Snyder and Philip Whalen were among the biggest proponents (Whalen later became a Buddhist monk.) The San Francisco Zen Center was founded in the '50s too, I believe. This interest in Eastern spirituality was largely an intellectual movement that started in universities and among artists, eventually taking hold in greater numbers as meditation groups and zendos became popular in the '60s. Granted, there was not much exposure to practices like Reiki at that time, but definitely there were a number of Americans seeking something outside the Judeo-Christian spiritual models.

Thaak wrote:
I'm assuming that all Yoga has a familiar or common ancestry?

If that is true, then Yoga is similar to Reiki. All styles of Yoga can be traced back to a similar origin/originator. But Yoga is thousands of years old, so the most popular styles survived and are very unique and invidualized from one another.

Reiki is not even a century old, and barely half that time in the Western World. We've had the conversation already about the proliferation of thousands of different styles of Reiki. How many will survive in a thousand years? Ten thousand?

Yes, all modern yoga does derive from a common ancestry as codified by Patanjali in the Yoga Sutras. Yoga, in its traditional state, is less about asanas (poses) as it is about a system of practices for living that brings you to a state of enlightenment. The emphasis in the West is on the asanas, but meditation and breathwork is more important to the yoga path than whether or not you can bend yourself into a pretzel. There are new styles of yoga being created all the time, just like Reiki. Teachers come up with their own system of asanas, breathwork, meditation and self-study and brand it. Iyengar is one of the most well-known types, but Bikram (hot yoga), Ashtanga, Kripalu and other styles are also popular.

Over time, I think we'll continue to see more types evolve and others fall away, in Reiki as in yoga. I think so long as we understand the basics and do those well, the rest of the packaging is optional based on preference.

What a busy topic! Shame i have missed most of it because I have been away!

I would just like to respond to a few points:

Andy wrote:
As far as teaching Reiki goes? If I teach a Reiki class, I will start with a basic level 1 class, which introduces them to who Usui was, his discovery story, who Hyashi was, who Takata was, and all their importance. I will teach the hand positions and how they coincide with both the endocrine glands and the chakras, and give a brief spiel about energy as I see it. I'll also discuss the ethics of energy work, especially as it pertains to work in the US.

That's about all that's necessary for a level 1 class.

Wot! No Gokai!?! Er..Reiki Precepts
Which actually brings me to another point about terminology used in other cultures.

Andy wrote:
I just don't personally feel that a specific cultural terminology is necessary over another. It is wholly dependent on which one speaks to the individual.

I don't know for sure about how karate, aikido etc. are taught but I did learn a bit of Judo when I was a youngster (many years ago!) and one of the things I remember is having to learn various Japanese phrases such as obi (belt), hajime (begin), ippon (victory, you win or something like that!), tatami (mat) and a whole host of japanese names for various throws and holds etc. We also learned the importance of respect for our teacher and discipline and etiquette in the dojo. All of this seemed quite natural considering Judo is a Japanese art - so once I discovered the Japanese terms for various Reiki techniques and concepts I don't see any problem with using them even though I am not Japanese.

Chris wrote:
When Usui said "honour your teachers" he wasn't saying "honour MY teachers": I have to honour my teachers of which Usui is one.

Where did Usui say "honour your teachers"? Not on the memorial stone!

Dragonfly wrote:
Yoga, in its traditional state, is less about asanas (poses) as it is about a system of practices for living that brings you to a state of enlightenment.

Now why does that sound familiar?

Ai to Hikari
Colin

Colin wrote:
What a busy topic! Shame i have missed most of it because I have been away!

I would just like to respond to a few points:

Andy wrote:
As far as teaching Reiki goes? If I teach a Reiki class, I will start with a basic level 1 class, which introduces them to who Usui was, his discovery story, who Hyashi was, who Takata was, and all their importance. I will teach the hand positions and how they coincide with both the endocrine glands and the chakras, and give a brief spiel about energy as I see it. I'll also discuss the ethics of energy work, especially as it pertains to work in the US.

That's about all that's necessary for a level 1 class.

Wot! No Gokai!?! Er..Reiki Precepts
Which actually brings me to another point about terminology used in other cultures.

Yes, forgot those, I was just typing out as I was sitting there last night before I went to bed. But then again, the Reiki Precepts are quite spiritual in nature aren't they?

Colin wrote:

Andy wrote:
I just don't personally feel that a specific cultural terminology is necessary over another. It is wholly dependent on which one speaks to the individual.

I don't know for sure about how karate, aikido etc. are taught but I did learn a bit of Judo when I was a youngster (many years ago!) and one of the things I remember is having to learn various Japanese phrases such as obi (belt), hajime (begin), ippon (victory, you win or something like that!), tatami (mat) and a whole host of japanese names for various throws and holds etc. We also learned the importance of respect for our teacher and discipline and etiquette in the dojo. All of this seemed quite natural considering Judo is a Japanese art - so once I discovered the Japanese terms for various Reiki techniques and concepts I don't see any problem with using them even though I am not Japanese.

There is a difference though. One is the superficial terminology, discipline and etiquette. I am a black belt in Americanized Karate (Tae Kwon Do), so I am quite familiar with all of those things (although we use Korean rather than Japanese terminology).

With Reiki, I was never taught the Japanese terminology and spirituality. Even when you go train with William Rand, you gotta take a separate course to learn the Japanese stuff. So for me to teach the Japanese terminology and spirituality, I would have to grab up a book (which wouldn't be hard to do) and train myself. Probably not a bad idea. However right now I have a perfectly good spiritual centerpoint of which Reiki synergizes with well.

I guess its all about whether you feel the need to learn the original system of Reiki, or are content with the westernized Reiki. I personally don't feel the need to go learn the Japanese original system, because what I have now works perfectly well.

Thaak wrote:... But then again, the Reiki Precepts are quite spiritual in nature aren't they?

The Precepts are also a set of very practical instructions on a simple therapeutic level

Don't get angry
(anger can harm the liver and gall-bladder)
Don't worry
(worry can impact negatively on the immune system)
Be Grateful
(the emotion of true gratitude has therapeutic benefits)
Work hard
(bringing mindful focus to the task at hand is a primary key to inhibiting worry)
Be Kind to others
(a key to counteracting anger)


.
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Thaak wrote:

Milarepa wrote:
so, you're cool if you went ot a dojo to learn Aikido, but where taught Muay Thai?

depends. I got my black belt at a dojo. Its company name is National Karate. Yet the style it teaches is an Americanized version of Tae Kwon Do. Furthermore, it is more of a sport version than a traditional version.

That's a bit of an oxymoron. A company whose name aligns itself with a Japanese style of martial arts, that actually teaches a Korean one.

Can you appreciate that when folks decide to take up Karate, they probably want to learn Karate? Or, do you feel that most people couldn't care less, as long as it is a martial art?

Carrying on from my question. Lets say you decided to go to Aikido. Any idea why you would pick Aikido?

Thaak wrote:[
By the way, I believe that my signature indicates what level Reiki I am.

Ahh yes. I never took much notice of it before, .

take care
Wayne