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Pandora
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Colin
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    concerning 'ULE'...

    Colin
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    Post by Colin Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:15 am

    Milarepa wrote:
    Pandora wrote:

    Radio waves also "flow": from the transmitter to the receiver.

    Yes, though these Radio waves are man-made, and are not universal. Not even in locality on earth. and since they flow, they originate from a source.

    what i'm aksing is, how does ULFE flow please?

    Pandora wrote:
    And yes, you may have Reiki "flowing" through you in the same way as (to use my original post) I have radio waves flowing through me.

    How? You're making a statement, so please tell me how you know this? Smile.

    Pandora wrote:
    Otherwise, why have an attunement at all?


    This reminds me of the tape of Hawayo Takata telling the story of how Chujiro Hayashi explained Reiki to her in his clinic. Here is a transcript of the relevant section (as far as can tell - because it is indistinct in places!) Smile

    Hawayo Takata wrote:

    Hayashi: Hawayo has a radio?

    Takata: Yes

    Hayashi: Alright, this radio is a set. Not every radio station broadcasts. If they have sound waves, speech, you get speech. If they are broadcasting music, you get music. See? So it all depends what the broadcasting station throws out.But this little machine receives it.

    It is the same thing: in this universe there is this great light, a great cosmic energy, the ether wave. Some countries call this prana, you know? All this, we know the secret, how to tap that and then tune into you. See? So we turn on the number and then you get the energy filling you and that's how you get well.


    Thaak wrote:
    So yes, we can be part of the flow at the same time that we let the flow move through us.

    Rather like I said in an earlier post about the ripple passing through the lake of all existence. The lake doesn't move from A to B and the ripple is not a separate object moving outwards either - it is really an effect of increased vibration being propagated through the water. Maybe this is how ULFE/Reiki may be said to "flow"? Smile

    Ai to Hikari
    Colin
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    Post by Milarepa Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:57 am

    Thaak wrote:We exist as semi-autonomous parts of an endless ocean with infinite energy. The flow of this energy is synonymous with the tides of the ocean. It flows within itself, through all of us, at the same time that we flow as the ocean.

    Those are nice words Andy. It doesn't mean they're accurate though, Smile. There's just as easily a field of constant, that simply changes form.

    No movement. No direct travel. No transmitter, no reicever. no travel at all.


    Thaak wrote:
    Additionally, to mention that all energy is movement, and movement is essentially flow, and that it is hard to imagine a table flowing... hmm... yes, difficult things to imagine...

    It's not diffiuclt to imagine. since we're talking about stuff within physics now. When Chris said about flow, if it was said a chair was flowing it would have been difficult for many to know what was meant. It's not a common everyday concept used in Reiki, that you're asserting here. and, i wouldn't have made those comments i did earlier, if our that had been said then. I hope this clears up your difficulty?

    To use the analogy earlier, of a transmitter emiting radio waves, and a reciever picking it up (as Chris said), being the same as Reiki flowing, gives the impression to many of the common assertion of the route of Reiki. Let's be honest.

    Thaak wrote:
    So yes Wayne, you are absolutely correct.

    Not bothered about that, as i indicated in my last post. It's about clarifying concepts that do lead to confusion.

    Words such as 'flow' & 'recieve' give the impression of Reiki entering the crown (or somewhere else), out the hands, into the practioner. not everyone is automatically gonna go get a dictionary definition, as you did. And unless you yourself are a walking dictionary, even you needed to paste definitions, to clarify your point. If it was easy, a simple sentence would sufficed. Instead of hours of chat.

    Being actuely aware that in every comment made on a forum, many see it. This is why it's important to focus on, and get to the nitty-gritty of some things.

    Thaak wrote:
    So yes, we can be part of the flow at the same time that we let the flow move through us.

    Why does anything have to 'move through us'? There's no need for any experience in Reiki to be linear in any way. It can just simply be. Simply appear. Simply experience.

    Take care
    Wayne
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    Post by Milarepa Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:08 pm

    Colin wrote:

    Rather like I said in an earlier post about the ripple passing through the lake of all existence. The lake doesn't move from A to B and the ripple is not a separate object moving outwards either - it is really an effect of increased vibration being propagated through the water. Maybe this is how ULFE/Reiki may be said to "flow"? Smile

    Sounds good., although the ripple is moving of course. How bout this..

    There is no ripple. There just is harmony? And harmony is merely a change from dis-harmony? Wether something is harmonious, or dis-harmonius, depends on the form/manifestation of the affected area. It could be a human, chair, lake.

    Nothing travels. Nothing more, nothing less. It just is.
    chi_solas
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    Post by chi_solas Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:20 pm

    I remember when I was in the 7th grade my bible
    teacher said that every word we speak goes out
    into space and is floating around out there. She
    made reference to having the right equipment and
    capturing words said by Moses and others from past
    centuries. Our words are energy sounds not always
    captured by radio waves. I wonder do these voice
    sounds loose energy and finally disappear.

    Wind/water are powerful forces if we describe them
    as just being there and not moving or flowing then
    they are not energy and ULFE would cease to exist

    scratch
    Thaak
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    Post by Thaak Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:54 pm

    For the record, I don't think Wayne and I are actually disagreeing. Chuckle... even as much as it may look it.
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    Post by Milarepa Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:20 pm

    Yeah i think we're on the same track. Happens with us often bro!

    This is what i like about here though. At least 3 staff members whom have quite different views on myself, really bring the ingredients for excellant chat's. And are willing to talk 'nitty-gritty'.

    All the staff have got their own distinct ways of looking at things, and this helps cover the broad range of expressions, helping all views stay valid for all people.
    Colin
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    Post by Colin Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:44 pm

    Milarepa wrote:
    Colin wrote:

    Rather like I said in an earlier post about the ripple passing through the lake of all existence. The lake doesn't move from A to B and the ripple is not a separate object moving outwards either - it is really an effect of increased vibration being propagated through the water. Maybe this is how ULFE/Reiki may be said to "flow"? Smile

    Sounds good., although the ripple is moving of course. How bout this..

    There is no ripple. There just is harmony? And harmony is merely a change from dis-harmony? Wether something is harmonious, or dis-harmonius, depends on the form/manifestation of the affected area. It could be a human, chair, lake.

    Nothing travels. Nothing more, nothing less. It just is.

    Well, I think most of us have actually seen a ripple so I think that ripples must exist! Laughing

    But whether it actually moves or not, I am not so sure. I think a ripple is more along the lines of the second part of your post - a manifestation of the difference in harmony and dis-harmony in a particular area of the water which is propagated outwards to adjacent areas. The ripple effect is manifested anew in each adjacent area of water, giving the illusion of movement. It would be interesting to know if any work has been done on whether the same water molecules stay with the ripple or whether it is only molecules in one particular area which become excited (or disturbed/disharmonious) and then pass on their excitement to adjacent molecules, and then return to a state of harmony again.

    Question Smile

    Ai to Hikari
    Colin
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    Post by Milarepa Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:48 pm

    Colin wrote:

    Well, I think most of us have actually seen a ripple so I think that ripples must exist! Laughing


    According to the little bald kid in the Matrix, 'there is no spoon'...
    Pandora
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    Post by Pandora Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:45 pm

    BTW Wayne, I still think you're arguing for the sake of argument. Especially when you ask me how I know radio waves are moving through me. Well as I'm not a receiver I can't receive them. Humanity only discovered radio waves about 100 years ago, yet (as part of the cosmic microwave background radiation) they had been present since the beginning of the universe. Does the fact that we only became aware of them 100 years ago mean they only existed since then? Of course not.

    I was pleased to see the quote from Hayashi supporting me - at least it means I have someone who is in all our lineages thinking along the same lines as me!

    I wonder if there is a way to discuss things without being perceived as being personal or combative? Perhaps by not splitting people's posts (which may be perceived as disrespectful) and replying to them word by word, point by point (a bit sort of boxing match or martial arts style), but by taking quotes, pulling them out and into a completely separate topic, and asking generally for thoughts relating to them?
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    Post by Milarepa Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:45 am

    Pandora wrote:BTW Wayne, I still think you're arguing for the sake of argument. Especially when you ask me how I know radio waves are moving through me.

    I'm really sorry, i never asked you how you know radio waves are moving through you, Chris. I asked how ULFE flows through you. And how do you know Reiki flows through you. Post No 145. In which, even with your latter responses in which it seesm you talk more about me (than the subject), it was never adressed.

    I never argue for that sake of it. I put in countless hours per day helping this forum. It's not just about posting Chris. I'm tirelessly promoting it, and trying ot inprove it's search engine rankings, registering on directories, researching how to improve the forum. It takes up a lot of my day. There's absolutely no way i would pit the effort in i do, just os i can argue with folks sometimes for the sake of it. That would mean i'm a nasty, vindictive person.

    If you're using your above reason , which can clearly be proved to be wrong, i'm also saying you're doubly wrong about my motives, and would ask if it's possible you'd stop repeating a wrong assertion of me, as it upsets me.

    An assertion about my motives, said in public on the forum, drags me into having to defend myself in public, as new members will see what you've wrote. I'd prefer you took it into PM, or feel free to complain bout me to staff. RLL staff isn't a 'old school-boy' network, and i can ssure you, complaints about anyone would be took on a professional manner.

    Pandora wrote:
    I was pleased to see the quote from Hayashi supporting me - at least it means I have someone who is in all our lineages thinking along the same lines as me!

    Most practitioners think/have thought along these lines too. It's good to try to expand upon them. Which has been done since last night. Encouraging others to think for themselves, is good.

    Pandora wrote:
    I wonder if there is a way to discuss things without being perceived as being personal or combative?

    Well, by not repeating personal remarks about a members motives would be a start.

    This forum was created with a semi-combative framework, this is cause it goes with the territory that some fokks will percieve others as comabtive, cause they ask cgallenging questions. It wasn't to be as uncomfrtable as Reiki4All, howver, all opinions are welcome. Even challenging ones, providing nothing perosnal is said, and its done respectfully.

    anyone whom is deemed to ask difficult questions, doesn't have to have their posts interacted with, that's no problem, Smile.


    Pandora wrote:
    Perhaps by not splitting people's posts (which may be perceived as disrespectful) and replying to them word by word, point by point (a bit sort of boxing match or martial arts style),

    Just what are you talking about here? Please be specific.

    If a person says different points in one text body, then of course, for the sake of being concise, the text body needs to be seperated, so the individual points are adressed.

    Pandora wrote:
    but by taking quotes, pulling them out and into a completely separate topic, and asking generally for thoughts relating to them?

    A person is welcome to make topics & posts in whatever way they wish, so sure, go ahead with that.

    If you have comments about anything to do with anything on the forum, please do contact a staff member in private, and they'll raise it with the rest of us, Smile.

    thanks for listening,i apprecite it
    Wayne
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    Post by Bruce Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:17 am

    Milarepa wrote:
    This forum was created with a semi-combative framework, this is cause it goes with the territory that some fokks will percieve others as comabtive, cause they ask cgallenging questions. It wasn't to be as uncomfrtable as Reiki4All, howver, all opinions are welcome. Even challenging ones, providing nothing perosnal is said, and its done respectfully.

    Uh, nothing personal being said, like calling someone an "egomaniac?" Is that an example?

    Bruce
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    Post by Milarepa Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:28 am

    sure Bruce, Smile .
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    Post by Pandora Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:36 am

    I'm not going to quote because I think that just make things worse. Interleaving posts, taking them line by line, word by word - isn't that akin to trading punches? And I do think that might lead to misunderstandings - indeed, already has done. Reiki is not a martial art, neither is learning.

    However, I am posting from a background of adult and further education, and I've suggested a way of discussing stuff which removes it from the "what you said..." arena, and puts it into the "what do you all think?" arena. Wayne, you have a martial arts background, and it shows. I have given an option for the forum from my area of expertise.

    If the forum is to be a place where we can all learn, then we need to move away from any form of combat and into a place where we can look at concepts outside an arena.

    I don't think I'll PM you Wayne, as I'm not sure you're in a place where you can respond outside your comfort zone at the moment.
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    Post by chi_solas Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:33 am

    Pandora wrote:I'm not going to quote because I think that just make things worse. Interleaving posts, taking them line by line, word by word - isn't that akin to trading punches? And I do think that might lead to misunderstandings - indeed, already has done. Reiki is not a martial art, neither is learning.

    However, I am posting from a background of adult and further education, and I've suggested a way of discussing stuff which removes it from the "what you said..." arena, and puts it into the "what do you all think?" arena. Wayne, you have a martial arts background, and it shows. I have given an option for the forum from my area of expertise.

    If the forum is to be a place where we can all learn, then we need to move away from any form of combat and into a place where we can look at concepts outside an arena.

    I don't think I'll PM you Wayne, as I'm not sure you're in a place where you can respond outside your comfort zone at the moment.

    Pandora I always find your postings valuable and
    to the point. RLL is just a new forum and is in
    the developing stages. Taking another
    person's posting and going line by line always felt
    to me like an interegation. We are folks in the
    healing business.I enjoy hearing what other folks do
    within their practicelike what is Head Massage or
    other techniques that I'm unaware of. I joined this forum
    because its listed Reiki Learning Lounge. I'm interested
    to learn aboutother Reiki Folks even if they practice a
    different style of Reiki from me. sunny
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    Post by Milarepa Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:40 am

    the two above posts are fair comments. I can definitely look at my way of responding to posts, if my format is upsetting some, Smile.

    Also, I'd prefer it though, that in Reiki topics, we talk about Reiki related subejct matter, and try to stay away from personal comments about posters.

    This topic should be about ULE. And not about my personal motivation at times, or indeed, my personal hobbies/interests. About the only thing that RLL's ethos dis-courages, is the use of others assumptions about an individual's personality, in response to posts.

    thanks
    Wayne
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    Post by Reikijim Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:48 pm

    Hello All,

    I`m gonna say it one more time. Personal judgements belong in pm`s to the parties involved. I did this myself once, it will not happen again!!! We all have to refrain from this activity. This forum will be a respectful place to all. Read the post i wrote in the welcome section if this is not clearly understood. I`m not trying to be the heavy here, but we, as a group will learn more, if the situations which lead to bickering are avoided.



    Play nice kids...and concerning 'ULE'... - Page 7 109644 party on!!!


    Smile RJ
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    Post by chi_solas Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:41 pm

    Thanks for the reminder RJ.The screen
    and keyboard are communication tools to
    pass along our thoughts and feelings
    about a subject being discussed. The
    mechanics of this process can desensitize
    us that we are actually responding to
    real people with feelings.

    In the true nature of the Reiki world
    we might refer to this as a blockage No
    when communication opens up and clears the
    the path we're ready to move a-head bounce

    PS I did read the post in the welcome section concerning 'ULE'... - Page 7 850837
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    Post by chi_solas Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:57 am

    I was responding to a Reiki Posting
    on another site and used the ULFE
    acronym & was surprized that folks
    did not know what ULFE stood for
    maybe I have high expectation. santa
    rzukic
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    Post by rzukic Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm

    Hi Andy,





    Thaak wrote:
    I see your point. While my first energy was actually Amanohuna, the discoverer of Amanohuna was initially trained in Reiki.

    I would imagine that most, if not all, hands-on energy modalities are similar to Reiki in that they require intent to use the energy, hand positions, and symbols.

    QT, Qi Gong, Cranial Sacral, Structural Integration, et. al. all have very different methods to do the work. Often I have heard that Reiki-esque methodologies work in concert with these others, and often comes in simultaneously without intention.



    James has put it better than me, and you can see where i was going with this..



    SOME THOUGHTS ON INITIATION...
    Copyright ©️ 2006 James Deacon
    [Modified: Dec. 14. 2006]




    'Reiki' is an initiatorially-received (initiatorially-awakened?) ability to interact with a very specific set of therapeutic qualities - or, as some would phrase it: a very specific set of 'therapeutic energy-frequencies' *, which are not normally consciously accessible to us.

    On one level, the purpose of the Reiki initiations is to calibrate or fine-tune the student's awareness/sensitivity/interactivity to that particular set of therapeutic energy-frequencies.

    In order to pass the specific initiation to another - in order to fine-tune (rather than attune) them to the set of frequencies that constitutes the therapeutic qualities of (pure) Reiki, we ourselves must first have received that specific initiation - we must have ourselves been fine-tuned to these specific frequencies.

    If we have not - if we do not, as it is phrased "hold the energy": this specific set of frequencies - then we cannot pass this particular 'fine-tunement' on to another:

    "You cannot give what you do not have".



    Modified forms of the Initiation process

    The Reiki Initiations as used and taught by Takata together comprise a very precise process - just like a mathemathical or chemical formula (or a food recipe for that matter)

    You follow the process/formula and you get what you are supposed to get.

    But if you start messing about with the process - alter the process - change the number or nature of one or more of the 'ingredients', change the point in the process where certain proceedures are carried out or the order in which the 'ingredients' are added to the mix, you are likely to end up with something other than what you were supposed to get.

    "Modify the formula, and you get a different result."



    IMO, modifying the initiations results in the student being 'fine-tuned' to a slightly different set of frequencies (some might say, a less 'pure' or less 'effective', perhaps even less-than-therapeutic, set of frequencies).

    We can only pass on what we have; and if what we have is fine-tunement to a slightly different set of frequencies, then (in using the same modified version of initiation process that was used to initiate us) this is what we will pass to others.


    Even if we revert to using the actual initiation process as taught by Takata-sensei, unless we have first received this form of the initiation ourselves, then what we pass will still be a slightly different set of frequencies.


    In an attempt to clarify this point [though by the time you've read the following, it may well be even less clear !]:

    If we are 'fine-tuned' to a particular set of energy-frequencies, then by using the identical process by which we became 'fine-tuned' to this specific set of frequencies, then this is what we will pass on to others - 'fine-tunement' to the identical, specific set of frequencies we ourselves hold

    If, however, we modify the process, then we pass on a modified version of what we ourselves hold.

    For example:
    If I have received, say, Tera Mai Reiki - then in using the Tera Mai initiation, I will pass this set of 'frequencies' on to the other person.

    However if (sticking with the same example), having been attuned to Tera Mai, instead of the Tera Mai initiation, I use, for example, the Jikiden initiation process, (without having myself received the Jikiden 'frequencies'), then what I am passing is actually the Tera Mai frequencies, modified by the Jikiden process, rather than the 'pure' Jikiden frequencies themselves.

    The person receiving this 'impure' Jikiden, even in passing on initiation via the Jikiden process, will still not be passing 'pure' Jikiden frequencies (as they never had them in the first place).

    Alternatively, lets say (having been attuned to Tera Mai), I decide to create a new 'style' of Reiki (and lets be egotistical and call it James Deacon Reiki). Instead of using the Tera Mai initiation, I create a new initiation process (perhaps using new symbols, or initiation points or whatever). In using this new process, what I am passing is actually the Tera Mai frequencies, modified by the new process.

    This particular 'impure' or modified version of the Tera Mai frequencies now becomes known as 'James Deacon Reiki'.

    I pass the James Deacon Reiki initiation to someone.

    Having received the James Deacon Reiki frequencies (i.e the Tera Mai frequencies, modified by the new initiation process), that person, by themselves using the James Deacon Reiki initiation process, will pass this same set of 'frequencies' on to the next person. While this set of frequencies may technically be considered to be an impure version of Tera Mai, it is at the same, the 'pure' set of James Deacon Reiki frequencies; and this is what the next person receives: pure James Deacon Reiki.

    Everyone who receives this James Deacon Reiki frequency-set can, by using the specific James Deacon Reiki initiation process, pass the pure James Deacon Reiki (aka impure Tera Mai) on to the next person.

    However, someone who has, say, 'Usui Shiki' Reiki frequencies, (but who has not received the James Deacon Reiki frequencies) even if they use the James Deacon Reiki initiation process, will not be passing 'pure' James Deacon Reiki - but rather 'Usui Shiki' modified by the James Deacon Reiki process.

    and so the 'frequency-set' has changed once again...

    In turn, the person receiving this 'impure' James Deacon Reiki, even in passing on initiation via the James Deacon Reiki process, will still not be passing 'pure' James Deacon Reiki frequencies (as they never had them in the first place)...

    Now, if that person, holding the 'impure' version of the James Deacon Reiki frequencies, should choose to use, let us say, the Komyo initiation processs....


    This, I believe, can go some way to explaining why there is a different 'feel' (in some cases, subtle, in others not so subtle) to the Reiki channeled by practitioners in certain lineages.

    The greater the changes to the initiation process, the greater the energetic difference, to the point where the frequencies to which the student becomes attuned cease to be recognised as 'Reiki' at all - a prime example being the modified versions of the Reiki initiations as used in Tera Mai.


    Modifications to the initiation process could also account for instances where the 'fine-tuning' simply just doesn't 'take' at all: the student complains of feeling tired or drained after giving Reiki treatments - a sign that, uneable to channel Reiki, they are in fact using personal ki to bring about healing - and in doing so, are depleting their own vital life force.

    _______
    *existing within / as part of, the omnipresent Universal Life-force Energy



    I like this! Very insightful! Now based on common understanding that everything could be improved, could any of these hybrid reiki styles be an improvement or is it set in the stone that original usui reiki is perfect and as such can not be improved?

    Regards,

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