Reiki practitioners do not diagnose...

How many people have been taught that:

“Reiki is not meant as a substitute for medical, or psychological, diagnosis and treatment.
Reiki practitioners do not diagnose conditions, offer prognosis, nor prescribe a course of treatment.”

- or words to this effect?

And just how true are the various elements of this statement anyway?
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I got that from the online Reiki community. Although, my own initial RMT is quite intuitive, that it'd be a waste if she didn't kinda enter into that area. Gentle suggestion/advice, coupled with a somewhat counselling session to, would be usual for her. And she's quite popular with that approach.

take care
Wayne

Hello 007!

In my experience,
Forum members who had a lot more experience than me told me that I shouldn't be concerned with the recipient's cleansing period. It's all upto them how they process.... as if I should wash my hands off!

I definitely do not follow that one.

Ofcourse I was also told not to diagnose or counsel and such...
I can agree to a certain extent with that.
Sometimes bad advice is more detrimental than no advice. Unless the RP knows what he/she is doing it can go pretty wrong.
Ofcourse there are the really gifted people who are the gems but then there are also people who think they are getting adviced by the 'spirit' but it is their EGO talking to them....

The recipients are vulnerable and may 'buy' into whatever.

BUT,
I do strongly feel that Reiki Practicioners should be given some kind of exposure by way of books or materisls ,in identifying basic illnesses and basic mental illnesses and be taught basic social worker skills.
Not to actively counsel or anything, unless they are naturally experienced and qualified. It'll definitely be helpful.

So many I hear, have emotional releases Or Half the time that special time spent with us may reveal something and we are placed in that responsible position and I take it very seriously.


@QQQQQQQQ0

Rlei_ki wrote:How many people have been taught that:

“Reiki is not meant as a substitute for medical, or psychological, diagnosis and treatment.
Reiki practitioners do not diagnose conditions, offer prognosis, nor prescribe a course of treatment.”

- or words to this effect?

And just how true are the various elements of this statement anyway?
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.
.

Isn't that said mostly to keep from running afoul of legal prohibitions against practicing medicine without a license?

Love and Light,

Garry

So, James,

What is your opinion??


@QQQQQQQQ0

In the USA, you could get into legal trouble if you started diagnosing. So you'd have to be very careful in what you said to your client.

I have a friend of mine who is a nutritionist who does applied kinesiology. One of the things she ran into on a client was that they were having liver detox issues. So she suggested the patient see her doctor about a potential liver problem.

The doctor got all huffy and reported her to the medical board, so she had to defend herself, hire a lawyer, and all that jazz.

Its definitely a sticky wicket.

You have to be a little schizoid to practice Reiki don't you...

No diagnosis, no course of treatment, but you OUGHT to offer homecare advice, and therefore ask suitable questions in order to understand what is going on from a holistic perspective.

And we have William Rand telling us that "Reiki is a Japanese technique for stress reduction and relaxation that also promotes healing".

But that's not as far, or necessarily as fast, as it goes - is it?

We are definitely hiding from something here.

I'll put my head on the block and say that Reiki doesn't always work for everyone. But it can have some profound effects beyond the benefits of relaxation.

JohnC

papakeri wrote:

Rlei_ki wrote:How many people have been taught that:

“Reiki is not meant as a substitute for medical, or psychological, diagnosis and treatment.
Reiki practitioners do not diagnose conditions, offer prognosis, nor prescribe a course of treatment.”

- or words to this effect?

And just how true are the various elements of this statement anyway?
.
.
.

Isn't that said mostly to keep from running afoul of legal prohibitions against practicing medicine without a license?

Love and Light,

Garry

Yes.

Isn't it interesting, that Takata was advised of reiki as an alternative method of dealing with her medical problem? And that the Usui manual describes particular protocols for particular conditions?

Bruce
P.S. The preceding is offered for general information purposes only, and does not constitute legal advice. Appropriate legal advice can be given only by an attorney who is licensed within your particular jurisdiction, and who is fully informed of the facts of your situation.

Bruce wrote:
Isn't it interesting, that Takata was advised of reiki as an alternative method of dealing with her medical problem? And that the Usui manual describes particular protocols for particular conditions?

Indeed.

Bruce wrote:P.S. The preceding is offered for general information purposes only, and does not constitute legal advice. Appropriate legal advice can be given only by an attorney who is licensed within your particular jurisdiction, and who is fully informed of the facts of your situation.

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I have my Reiki clients sign a waiver.
I also have "hands on Insurance"

Massachusetts law for Reiki Therapy states.

Exemptions: any person who uses touch, words, and directed movement to deepen awareness of patterns of movement in the body, or the affectation of the human energy system or acupoints or Qi meridians of the human body while engaged within the scope of practice of a profession with established standards and ethics, provided that their services are not designated or implied to be massage or massage therapy. Such practices include, but are not limited to the Feldenkrais Method; Reflexology; The Trager Approach; Ayurvedic Therapies, Rolf Structural Integration, Polarity or Polarity Therapy; Polarity Therapy Bodywork; Asian Bodywork Therapy that does not constitute massage as defined by this act; Acupressure; Jin Shin Do; Qi Gong; Shiatsu; Body-Mind Centering, and Reiki.

You know, I was thinking that I didn't have much left to say on this topic, as I said what I had to say already, and there wasn't much left to discuss really.

But something kept bugging me about this concept.

Frankly, the fact is, I don't feel comfortable diagnosing anything. Whether I should, or should not be allowed to is superfluous to the issue really.

I don't have any medical training aside from CPR and Basic Combat Medic training from having been in the US Army. Now unless someone is obviously not breathing and doesn't have a pulse (things easily identifiable by someone without a medical degree or license of some sort) or a sucking chest or open head wound (also easily identifiable by the lay person), then I'm probably not the right person to diagnose the situation. And even if I were there, and could diagnose these issues, I haven't been CPR certified in almost 15 years, and am certainly not the right person to make sure the sucking chest wound doesn't kill the person.

I'm not massage certified. I'm not paramedic or EMT certified. I'm not a fireman (even reserve or volunteer.) I'm not a police man. I haven't been in the military for 15 years. I don't have any herbalism certifications. I didn't even graduate from college.

So the bottom line is, I'm simply not qualified to diagnose an issue, and I'd be doing my clients a grave injustice if I even tried. Sure, I can read medical text books and other things on symptomology... but that still wouldn't make me qualified to diagnose something.

And I'd wager, anyone in my similar circumstance, shouldn't either.

Andy

Thaak wrote:Frankly, the fact is, I don't feel comfortable diagnosing anything. Whether I should, or should not be allowed to is superfluous to the issue really.

[. . . .]

So the bottom line is, I'm simply not qualified to diagnose an issue, and I'd be doing my clients a grave injustice if I even tried. Sure, I can read medical text books and other things on symptomology... but that still wouldn't make me qualified to diagnose something.

And I'd wager, anyone in my similar circumstance, shouldn't either.

Andy

Some personal notes, followed by observations that are more general.

Over a few days while doing distant treatment for my father (who was going through pancreatic cancer), I saw his liver turning darker and darker. A few days after that, his doctors found that bile had been backing up into his liver because the liver had grown back over a stent that they'd placed there.

Sometime later, I saw a blockage in his left kidney. His doctors later found that, too.

My mother and I had worked on a friend of hers who was having liver problems. About a year after that, Mom mentioned that her friend was having some fainting spells. I looked at the friend's energy (long distance), and told my mother that I'd gotten an impression that said "leukemia." (I heard it, and saw excess of white blood cells.) I also said I hoped I was wrong. But about 2 years later, the friend's doctors found it was leukemia. It would've been better if they'd caught it earlier.

If doctors are specifically looking for something, chances are reasonably good that they'll find it. But if they aren't looking for it, they probably won't notice it.

For people involved in energy healing, I don't think that "diagnosis" has to mean naming something as a recognized allopathic condition. But it could take that form -- e.g., after reading people's energies long distance, Caroline Myss came to realize that an image of concrete was the way that she perceived cancer. (Or like when I got the impression of "leukemia" while looking at my mother's friend's energy.)

I suggest that something equivalent to "diagnosis" could mean detecting an energetic pattern at a particular place in the recipient's body. That would be like Myss getting an impression of concrete in an area of the patient's body, before she learned that it corresponded to cancer. (Or like when I saw the darkening of my father's liver, or the blockage in his kidney.)

And that sort of detection can be useful if there are problems in areas where symptoms aren't appearing. Given unlimited time, full-body treament sessions might also work on the problem area. But if time in any particular session is limited, then zeroing in on the problem area is probably better.

Addendum: I'm still trying to figure out how to prod medical professionals to look at things that are noticed in energy healing sessions. Saying "There's a blockage of his energy at . . ." doesn't seem like the way to do it?

Bruce

Bruce wrote:

Thaak wrote:Frankly, the fact is, I don't feel comfortable diagnosing anything. Whether I should, or should not be allowed to is superfluous to the issue really.

[. . . .]

So the bottom line is, I'm simply not qualified to diagnose an issue, and I'd be doing my clients a grave injustice if I even tried. Sure, I can read medical text books and other things on symptomology... but that still wouldn't make me qualified to diagnose something.

And I'd wager, anyone in my similar circumstance, shouldn't either.

Andy

Some personal notes, followed by observations that are more general.

Over a few days while doing distant treatment for my father (who was going through pancreatic cancer), I saw his liver turning darker and darker. A few days after that, his doctors found that bile had been backing up into his liver because the liver had grown back over a stent that they'd placed there.

Sometime later, I saw a blockage in his left kidney. His doctors later found that, too.

My mother and I had worked on a friend of hers who was having liver problems. About a year after that, Mom mentioned that her friend was having some fainting spells. I looked at the friend's energy (long distance), and told my mother that I'd gotten an impression that said "leukemia." (I heard it, and saw excess of white blood cells.) I also said I hoped I was wrong. But about 2 years later, the friend's doctors found it was leukemia. It would've been better if they'd caught it earlier.

If doctors are specifically looking for something, chances are reasonably good that they'll find it. But if they aren't looking for it, they probably won't notice it.

For people involved in energy healing, I don't think that "diagnosis" has to mean naming something as a recognized allopathic condition. But it could take that form -- e.g., after reading people's energies long distance, Caroline Myss came to realize that an image of concrete was the way that she perceived cancer. (Or like when I got the impression of "leukemia" while looking at my mother's friend's energy.)

I suggest that something equivalent to "diagnosis" could mean detecting an energetic pattern at a particular place in the recipient's body. That would be like Myss getting an impression of concrete in an area of the patient's body, before she learned that it corresponded to cancer. (Or like when I saw the darkening of my father's liver, or the blockage in his kidney.)

And that sort of detection can be useful if there are problems in areas where symptoms aren't appearing. Given unlimited time, full-body treament sessions might also work on the problem area. But if time in any particular session is limited, then zeroing in on the problem area is probably better.

Addendum: I'm still trying to figure out how to prod medical professionals to look at things that are noticed in energy healing sessions. Saying "There's a blockage of his energy at . . ." doesn't seem like the way to do it?

Bruce

Yes, those things can be useful. But my intuitional skills are not yet strong enough to get those types of impressions. Or at least my interpretation of what I "see" isn't clear enough yet to know what the hell I'm "seeing."

But that aside, in the USA, you have to be very careful about telling someone that they have a problem in a particular area. Even if you tell their doctor to check it out.

A nutritionist friend of mine did this, and had to go before a medical board for potential litigation against her for diagnosing without a license. All she did was indicate the person might want to have their doctor look at their liver for potential issues that her applied kinesiology indicated were quite dangerous.

True, ethical guidelines do blur between right and wrong considering your examples. Would a doctor truly be ethical to ignore your insight because you aren't a licensed medical professional? Especially if you've proven over time to be right in other instances?

On the flip side, what if you found that what the doctors were treating wasn't the issue? And so your client stops taking those meds, or becomes dependent on you instead of her doctors? After all, I do believe there is a place for allopathic conventional medicine. And then your client's condition worsens? We have to be very careful of any suggestion we make. For while we are not medical professionals in the licensed, legal sense, our clients come to use because they do, in a way, respect us as such. They pay us money to help make them feel better.

So, we must be ethically careful with that respect. They may choose to ignore their doctors, who might actually be helping, albeit in a longer round-about way, or be helping something entirely different. The more we "diagnose" or tell the client about what we find, there is a likelihood that we are not prepared to medically treat that client in a necessary way. And that client may end up dieing.

I'm not ready to take on that responsibility in the context that I am not comfortable with my knowledge medica, nor my ability at intuitive diagnosis.

Andy

Bruce wrote:

<gentle snip>

Addendum: I'm still trying to figure out how to prod medical professionals to look at things that are noticed in energy healing sessions. Saying "There's a blockage of his energy at . . ." doesn't seem like the way to do it?

Bruce

It seems to me like a reasonable approach would be to speak to the medical professionals in the language they are used to hearing from patients and their families and simply ask what are the possible causes of the patient's condition. If you can ask it in way that makes it sound like you're a layman asking them to explain it to you, rather than a colleague suggesting a diagnosis, then you're probably more likely to get some traction. IOW you're leading them to entertain a line of thinking that up to this point they had not entertained, while making them think it was their idea, and you were just the naive layman whose random question sent them off in the right direction.

Love and Light,

Garry

Andy I agree....

So the bottom line is, I'm simply not qualified to diagnose an issue, and I'd be doing my clients a grave injustice if I even tried. Sure, I can read medical text books and other things on symptomology... but that still wouldn't make me qualified to diagnose something.

And I'd wager, anyone in my similar circumstance, shouldn't either.

My reason for using the Reiki system is to assist my clients
in the art of relaxation so they can touch base with their
inner self & find balance/harmony to work with their mind,
body, & spirit. I don't see myself in a parody medical role.

When I became a Reiki 1 practitioner my Reiki teacher did
stress we do not get involved in trying to diagnose. I find
that some of the Reiki Rituals like byosen gives a double
message, we are taught to scan yet we don't diagnose.

chi_solas wrote:My reason for using the Reiki system is to assist my clients
in the art of relaxation so they can touch base with their
inner self & find balance/harmony to work with their mind,
body, & spirit. I don't see myself in a parody medical role.

That's fine, but it's not the way that Usui described his system -- he didn't confine its description to assisting relaxation. His description was phrased as a more medical role.

When I became a Reiki 1 practitioner my Reiki teacher did
stress we do not get involved in trying to diagnose. I find
that some of the Reiki Rituals like byosen gives a double
message, we are taught to scan yet we don't diagnose.

Does that mean that you don't do byosen?

As for "double message," that doesn't come from byosen itself. It comes from byosen combined with an insistence (from whom?) that we don't diagnose. Byosen was a practice (I wouldn't call it a "ritual") taught by Usui. The double message appears to be a more modern thing.

Bruce

I don't know that I've ever been in the situation where I noticed something that wasn't already apparent on some level to the client I was working on. I do have my clients sign a waiver and I explain to them that while I can't guarantee anything, much anecdotal evidence is out there for Reiki's benefits.

Interestingly, I had a new client the other day who is about to undergo a mastectomy next week on her right breast. As I worked on her, I noticed an odd shift in energy in her left breast. I did mention it to her (with all of my usual disclaimers) and she replied, "Funny that you should mention that because there is some sort of mass there too but they haven't yet identified if it is benign. They are going to biopsy it the same day they do the mastectomy." She actually seemed pleased/surprised that I picked up on it - seemed to validate something for her.

namaste,

reiki is competable with other systems of healing we all know that or that has been taught to us. we do see the problem areas and if the doctors listen they will go into those areas and do their job. normally they look at reiki as some mumbo jumbo. yes, if the patient insists and asks the doctors in the language they understand them the doctors do listen.

but what do you do when the doctors are giving/have given wrong treatment???? a recent patient who has come from chandigarh had throbbing pain in the lungs region 6 months back. the doctors there started treating her for t.b. now her relatives have brought her to delhi and have admitted her in a knowm hospital here. doctors say there is nothing wrong as per their tests, but she does have those pains which are now shooting pains. when i scanned her i got a visual reading of one lung with pistules of water and the other one with less pistules. i have felt her pain and it is quite bad, have tried to pull out her pain with psychic surgery, will get a feed back today.

doctors are giving her pain killers and saying that she has had a wrong treatment done. as to what is actually wrong with her they are yet to say.

Bruce wrote:..And that the Usui manual describes particular protocols for particular conditions?

Indeed.

In the Usui treatment guidelines [Usui Ryoho Shishin], and also in the Hayashi Ryoho Shishin are prescribed specific courses of treatment for specific disorders.

As to diagnosis - of course, many people think of diagnosis in terms of 'labelling ailments and diseases': "the patient is suffering from X (or Y)"
- yet diagnosis is simply about arriving at an opinion/conclusion as a result of examining a situation/problem.

Now while Byosen Reikan Ho may not be a diagnostic tool in the sense of being about 'labelling' - it is still about examining the 'client' for the 'energetic sensations' which indicate dis-harmony or dis-ease

And of course, as well as providing us with Byosen Reikan Ho, and a set of guidelines for treatment practice, Usui-sensei also provided us with a further, very important set of therapeutic treatment guidelines.

(Strangely, although perhaps the very core of Usui-sensei's approach to treating illness, it seems few Reiki practitioners actually prescribe this treatment for their clients)


Known as Shôfuku no hihô, Manbyo no rei yaku, the instructions for its application begins: “Just for today...”
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Rlei_ki wrote:

[...]

And of course, as well as providing us with Byosen Reikan Ho, and a set of guidelines for treatment practice, Usui-sensei also provided us with a further, very important set of therapeutic treatment guidelines.

(Strangely, although perhaps the very core of Usui-sensei's approach to treating illness, it seems few Reiki practitioners actually prescribe this treatment for their clients)


Known as Shôfuku no hihô, Manbyo no rei yaku, the instructions for its application begins: “Just for today...”
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Amen, brother!

Love and Light,

Garry

Bruce, I have discovered through my own personal
healing that relaxation is important for the client
to get in touch with their inner self. When relaxed
the body begins to heal itself. I used Reiki on myself
before I got involved in "formal Reiki" I know ULFE
works without using byosen/symbols/rituals. Being
certified is only a formality when using the Reiki system
ULFE is free and you do not have to be certified to use it,


It was through Reiki 4 that I learned many people have adapt
the Reiki System added/deleted. and many folks who claim to
be Reiki authorities don't seem to be able to agree/on what's
true/untrue about "Dr" Usui's System and how much was changed
by "Takada" and others. The best advise my RMT gave me was," do
not try to diagnose"

I think the point that Andy makes earlier is that despite intuitive impressions, or what we may have learned from the Hayashi Healing Guide or other methods for diagnosing/treating conditions, Reiki practitioners in the U.S. are strictly prohibited from actively diagnosing patients. There's very little way around that.

Ironically, I do have chiropractors who refer me if they feel that there is something energetic going on with their patients that the adjustments alone are not addressing. Not so long ago, chiropractors' diagnostic methods and beliefs were not considered very sound!! So, that does make me hopeful that things may change for energy work.

Enjoying the fascinating discussions!!

Dragonfly wrote:I think the point that Andy makes earlier is that despite intuitive impressions, or what we may have learned from the Hayashi Healing Guide or other methods for diagnosing/treating conditions, Reiki practitioners in the U.S. are strictly prohibited from actively diagnosing patients. There's very little way around that.

Ironically, I do have chiropractors who refer me if they feel that there is something energetic going on with their patients that the adjustments alone are not addressing. Not so long ago, chiropractors' diagnostic methods and beliefs were not considered very sound!! So, that does make me hopeful that things may change for energy work.

I remember it well.
Acupunture,chiropracters. have
now taken their respected practices
into mainstream medicine.

Today I make a co- payment of $15
dollars to visit my chiropractor
every 6 weeks. I would love to have
a formal Reiki session that often.

chi_solas wrote:.... and how much was changed
by "Takada" and others..

what was changed by Takata sensei? She always said she taught as she was taught by Hayashi sensei.

Of course, for the 'originality' experts to have any kinda 'authority', it must be spread that Hayashi sensei & Takata sensei changed things. There's no evidence Hayashi sensei changed things, on the contrary actually. And Takata sensei did teach over an extraordinary time-frame, it's not surprising her students may have recalled different things. In an largely oral teaching, how easy is it to remember what happened 10 or 20 years ago?

take care
Wayne