Initiations via videconferrencing : still "distant" ?

i found words somewhere that a person who has not received denju, even once attuned, cannot give denju no matter how he waves his hands, intends, places things/symbols, or whatever...

and i go with that bent of mind....

we have tons of sites which offer a wish-list sort of mechanism... you subscribe for your name to be placed on the list, and you would probably be receiving an email in next one or two days that you have been attuned to this or that level...


that is something which is not acceptable within major circles of Usui Shiki Royoho, especially the 'original' guys... and i go with that bent of mind too...


what if, lets say for example, a reiki master within Usui Shiki Ryoho, who has the same bent of mind, and who considers the email-fashion attunements just a crap....

what if that person desires to give initiation to somebody not present physically, but can be seen on a webcam, or tv screen...

lets be more specific... teacher and student are on a videoconferencing, or a webcam chat over some messanger service like yahoo, live messenger, skype, etc. and are infact 'watching' each other...


the student is instructed to assume the standard gassho position, and is insttucted about the 'cues' on when to raise hands, when to open them, when to close them back to gassho, and so on....

on the master side, the master does all the ncessary ingredients required,i.e, thought, word, deed.....

and then the attunements go exactly in a fashion that in-person would go... except that master cannot access the auric shell of the student as would be possible for him in an in-person one....

my question is, that how do you see about the sancitity of such initiations... would those be in-person, distant, or 50:50 ?

this question rises importance that there are other disciplines besides reiki, where the initiations are being given in this manner, and there is no disagreement in those circles about the validity or otherwise of such initiations....

please come in and say something... this is damn important


take care



salman


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Hi Salman,

I am afraid I didn't understand the post. Are you saying that distant attunement isn't possible?

I understand that some reiki style founders do not endorse distant reiki attunements and since it is their right it doesn't bother me. But generally speaking, the distant reiki attunement works, just as distant reiki treatments do.

The concerns that have been expressed by some are rather of the nature if the student will get good instructions as to what to do with new tools (how to use it etc) than if reiki attunement itself would work.

Certainly that some say it doesn't work, period. But as with everything else in the life, IMO we should first make our own experience if possible and base our opinion on our own experiences. So, the best, IMO is that you try for yourself and see if it works or not. I was on both ends and it worked just fine for me.

Regards,

Resko

Find Out How Learning Reiki Can Change Your Life.

rzukic wrote:
I understand that some reiki style founders do not endorse distant reiki attunements
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The concerns that have been expressed by some are rather of the nature if the student will get good instructions as to what to do with new tools (how to use it etc) than if reiki attunement itself would work.

hi Resko

i have no doubts on the working or sanctity of distant attunements, they work cent percent... they empower the student in as good way as in-person initiations would do...

but, on another note, we have voices within the senior people that even in in-person attunements, the ultimate experience might slightly differ from one technique to another technique, although, again, all would be working...

so on this vein, no wonder if we say that distant attunements confer the ability but the experience may slightly vary than the in-person one... although, both work perfectly...

what i intended to ask is that during webcam initiations, given the concurrent presence of master and student face to face, in live, interactive session, would we technically call such initiations as in-person or a distant one ?

for this question, we might not find answer from Takata's Sensei teachings, since this technology was unthinkable in her times...

so we have to join heads (and hearts too ) to find what is the specie of such attunements... distant or in-person, especially since they contain elements of both!


so, in a way, as there is new-age reiki, there might be new-age initiations, provided we have vetting by peers over a general consensus note


take care


salman

distance intiations have worked without even video conferencing.

imo, a vital prt of an initition is conveying what the teacher has created in his immediate surroundings in that initiation. video conferencing without a doubt accentuates this, and HSZSN is used anyhow.

i still gotta mantain though, in-person is the primary and most optimal way for all reiki training, for at least handful of reasons. a teacher is entitled to use their own judgment though.

i was involved in my last ever distance initiation (and on-going training) about a month ago. for a very special reason i felt it was more important to complete an already started process from years ago. it was a far more impressive experience, from my opinion.

warmest wishes
wayne

Thanks Wayne for coming out of your hibernation

i just read on the other post, that you've been in serious allergic problems... i thought your silence was due to non-availabity of internet in your newly moved home for the time being, but hearing that sorry tale, i m worried....

you take care of yourself buddy... the other week you had experience with poisonous mushrooms, and this week you have allergic reactions... i was thinking all these events are a playful trick of nature to give you some 'rest' from the overly busy routines you've been going through in this while ?

(well, the cost of this 'rest' is very high though )

get well soon bro.. may God be with you... and as your signature says "that which is able to save your body and soul is naohi by God" so be it may God be with you buddy !


and now something on the thread...

you wrote :

imo, a vital prt of an initition is conveying what the teacher has created in his immediate surroundings in that initiation. video conferencing without a doubt accentuates this, and HSZSN is used anyhow.

what i infer from above sentences is that the teacher builds up a certain surrounding around himself in in-person initiations (that are of great help for the initiation process itself)... and in distant initiations, such surroundings around the teacher are very faint... and thats why you probably said "video conferencing without a doubt accentuates this" ??

the feelings of interactiveness and face to face accentuates what ?

please tell, if i m getting your sentences in a different way than that you meant ?


take care Wayne

salman

hi salman, yeah mushrooms & allerigic reaction, hehe, it' been a wild ride!

sure, in an initiation there's more going on than first seems. it's important to be in-person durinhg initiations cause certain 'atmosphere' is created around the teacher. it's more than atmosphere, but for this post i'll use that word. .

Milarepa wrote:it's important to be in-person durinhg initiations cause certain 'atmosphere' is created around the teacher. it's more than atmosphere, but for this post i'll use that word. .

Hi Wayne,

I can see that the "atmosphere" might be more the kind that's ritually summoned rather than emotionally charged. But are we really talking about a kind of atmosphere that cannot transcend time and space?

Brings up some interesting issues for me too that may be relevant to initiation. In some ways we create what we feel, but what we feel may not always reflect what moves us...

Good luck with the core transformation btw. The book is out too now - kind of easier to follow too (well, quicker anyway)...

John

JohnC wrote:

Milarepa wrote:it's important to be in-person durinhg initiations cause certain 'atmosphere' is created around the teacher. it's more than atmosphere, but for this post i'll use that word. .

Hi Wayne,

I can see that the "atmosphere" might be more the kind that's ritually summoned rather than emotionally charged. But are we really talking about a kind of atmosphere that cannot transcend time and space?

Hiya Buddy!

this is a great point ya know! Now that i think bout it, and since we use HSZSN at the start of the whole thing, for sure, it's plausible that distance doesn't matter. yeah i'd say it's ritually summoned.

JohnC wrote:brings up some interesting issues for me too that may be relevant to initiation. In some ways we create what we feel, but what we feel may not always reflect what moves us...

thins sounds real good. please expand on it!

JohnC wrote:[
Good luck with the core transformation btw. The book is out too now - kind of easier to follow too (well, quicker anyway)...

John

yeah, thanks buddy. thanks also for your patience in loaning me the dvds! I promoise once i get this workshop done, i'll post them right over. Yeah the dvd is slow, i only finished dvd 1 last night. it's very long, hehe. but just by the dvd 1, i feel it's gonna be good!

wamrest wishes
Wayne

hi Wayne and John!

I want to ask that why master gives reiki to aura of the attunee at the start ? And when we place symbols in palms, etc, are we really putting within the physical body or are we putting to the auric counterparts of these physical parts? Where is the catch?


Any idea or research, that while doing initiations, the auric shell of master enlarges manifold ?


When DKM is drawn or written by master, it produce an extra 'glow' that can be sensed energetically by a non-reiki sensitive buddy too? Or through, lets say, kirlain photography ??


I mean to say, is the atmosphere 'ritually summonned' only ??


Take care



Salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:hi Wayne and John!

I want to ask that why master gives reiki to aura of the attunee at the start ? And when we place symbols in palms, etc, are we really putting within the physical body or are we putting to the auric counterparts of these physical parts? Where is the catch?

they don't have to. but it'd be the create a responsivness with student, and accentuate area.

placing the symbols in physical is also placing in aura. just different expressions of same being.

Lambs-Wool wrote:

I mean to say, is the atmosphere 'ritually summonned' only ??


Take care



Salman

ritual is big part.

I dont know where to put this question, but Wayne what'd you feel is the aura ?


is it a envelope around our physical body (as commonly said) or it is the aura, within which our physical body is housed ?? (lets say, for example, a circle within a bigger circle... and the inner circles is still 'included' in the bigger one rather than syaing that the outer circle is circuferencing the inner one)?

how you view Aura ?

take care

salman

imo, it's not a seperate thing from our physical body. our physical body is just another manifestation of our being. so we got physical, and more subtle levels, described as aura. it's all ome though.

physical can be described as maybe erm, denser, so it's more work to try to do something there. so if we work with aura, it's more easily maleable, and efficient results.

when we place our hands on another person, we're still doing aura work. cause our aura is around us, and within us. it is us.

is this what you asking bout my view?

warmest wishes
wayne