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Just for today..... Don't get angry.....Don't worry.....Be grateful.....Work hard.....Be kind to others

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    learning from Mrs. Takata

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    Post by aronaya Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:13 am

    The following post first written on the Reiki Cafe (http://www.nexuscafe.com/bin/home.cgi/Home/reiki), reprinted here by invitation of rlei_ki, and with the permission of Reiki Cafe moderator. Seems to echo your previous conversation about diagnosis.

    Blessings,
    Aronaya

    --- post follows ---

    For a long time, I've pondered Mrs. Takata's example, in the great healing that prompted her to bring Reiki to the West. By all accounts, she spent four months receiving Reiki, rather than undergo surgery for gallstones, benign tumor, appendicitis and asthma. At least one of those conditions is acute and potentially life-threatening.

    Nowadays, many would call that dangerous neglect, at least the part about not doing surgery for appendicitis. But in that time and place, there appeared to be more of an equal balance between the two approaches, surgery or Reiki.

    Now as then, any competent adult may legally and morally refuse medical treatment, so that remains true. However, it seems, if we follow the mainstream, that few would choose an "alternative" therapy as a first approach to a severe health issue.

    Here's the question that's nudging me: if one has a choice of healing approaches, one involving only gentle laying on of hands, and others involving powerful drugs with scary side effects, or invasive surgery with risks of infection, blood loss, complications etc., then...doesn't the "first, do no harm" principle favor the non-invasive healing to be tried first?

    And, following Mrs. Takata's experience, shouldn't we spend as much time doing Reiki as it takes, to effect a positive change? And, if we only do an hour, once a week, or once a month, or a half-hour per week, as noted in another post concerning a Reiki study [NIH study of Reiki impact on painful diabetic neuropathy], then doesn't that set us up for weak outcomes, as compared to the perception of pharmaceutical or surgical effectiveness?

    Yet, our common fee-for-service structures, patterned after massage therapy, psychotherapy, and corporate staff meetings, favor regular but not too frequent one-hour sessions.

    Where did this one-hour standard come from? Not so long ago, healings were done for as long as it took. Medicine man trained to dance and sing for days and nights; Lomi-lomi, a Hawaiian modality, went on for days, and, Reiki was done on a person for as long as it took -- in Mrs. Takata's case, four months.

    I know, we will say to ourselves, modern society is so fast-paced, that to do business, we have to offer one-hour time slices, and charge accordingly. But, as healers, isn't part of our job to heal the society, one person at a time, starting with ourselves? If we do hands-on just long enough to get started, then close it out because the clock beckons, accept payment with gratitude, and bless the client on her way out, then aren't we missing a huge opportunity to encourage time spent on self...healing?

    So, these questions go together -- shouldn't we have an ethic of trying Reiki first, and then do it for long enough to make a difference?

    With great respect for the undeniable accomplishments of Western medicine (incidentally, public health being one of the biggest social impacts -- sanitation, preventive medicine, awareness of diet and exercise), how can we return to a more balanced perspective, one that removes causes rather than repair the damage, expensively, after the fact?

    How can we, as mindful, responsible, and enthusiastic Reiki providers, help guide the way to a new balance?

    With a life as time-sliced as anyone's, I am challenged by these questions. In asking them, I hope to find a new balance for myself.

    Thank you all, for reading and inquiring and pondering. I hope these questions resonate for you.

    Blessings,
    Aronaya
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    Post by Milarepa Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:24 am

    Fantastic post! Many, many thanks for sharing that! You've raised quite a few interesting aspects, this topic will be very intersting!

    take care
    wayne
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    Post by chi_solas Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:14 am

    Aronaya, thought provoking and a reminder
    that we need to slow down and give Reiki
    energy the time/permission to work on the
    many layers of the mind, body and spirit
    so it can heal and lead to balance and harmony
    within. Push buttons and instant gratification
    in our world of technology has blind sighted
    the simplicity that is often overlooked when
    seeking good health.


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    Post by ZenDave Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:22 am

    I think part of returning things to the way they were as far as balance really only concerns one thing. Results.

    I have been a believer for quite sometime that a little Reiki here and there might not be the answer and that the answer is really lots and lots of Reiki ( at least while sick or treating a specific illness/dysfunction/injury).

    If we look at how Reiki is often taught in the modern age we can see that alot of the approach is often quick,fast and easy.

    Compared to other modalities over the centuries the average reiki practitioner is nowhere near as dedicated to the practice as say the aforementioned medicine men chanting and dancing for hours or days.

    We can only get out of it what we put into it. So the more we put into it the more we can mature in our practices and the more results can be achieved.

    Maybe it's time for us to step up and realize shouting "Shazam!" while we do 30 minutes of Reiki for someone isn't going to be so hopeful as we often propogate.

    Blessed Ever-Present Moment
    Dave
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    Post by chi_solas Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:32 am

    ZenDave wrote:I think part of returning things to the way they were as far as balance really only concerns one thing. Results.

    I have been a believer for quite sometime that a little Reiki here and there might not be the answer and that the answer is really lots and lots of Reiki ( at least while sick or treating a specific illness/dysfunction/injury).

    If we look at how Reiki is often taught in the modern age we can see that alot of the approach is often quick,fast and easy.

    Compared to other modalities over the centuries the average reiki practitioner is nowhere near as dedicated to the practice as say the aforementioned medicine men chanting and dancing for hours or days.

    We can only get out of it what we put into it. So the more we put into it the more we can mature in our practices and the more results can be achieved.

    Maybe it's time for us to step up and realize shouting "Shazam!" while we do 30 minutes of Reiki for someone isn't going to be so hopeful as we often propogate.

    Blessed Ever-Present Moment
    Dave

    Simplicity gets lost in the rush to heal.
    Your post is a reminder that we need to
    just be "Reiki"
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    Post by ZenDave Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:39 am

    And maybe even a reminder that simplicity does not equate expedience?

    Even learning to Be can take a long time ,even if it's actually one of the simplest things to do.

    Blessed Ever-Present Moment
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    Post by chi_solas Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:52 am

    ZenDave wrote:And maybe even a reminder that simplicity does not equate expedience?

    Even learning to Be can take a long time ,even if it's actually one of the simplest things to do.

    Blessed Ever-Present Moment
    Dave

    Learning to be Reiki is made easier for me
    when I practice the 5 Reiki principles. I
    did see it posted somewhere probabley Reiki4
    that the 5 principles being posted on a fridge
    door helps as a reminder to say them at the
    beginning of your day.
    sunny
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    Post by Pandora Fri May 01, 2009 5:05 am

    OK then here's the other view point.

    Why should Reiki take an hour?

    From the other healing modalities I practice I offer the following. One of my spiritual healing mentors only gives hands-on healing for 4 minutes. Crystal healing is as effective when only 10 minutes of hands-on healing is given as it is when an hour is given. So why all the hand positions? Why the hour?

    I believe there has been a great development of all energy-based healing techniques, with practitioners reporting a decrease in time spent with hands on: as if the power got turned up at the power generating station at some time. Does the Harmonic Convergence of 1988 have anything to do with this?

    When Mrs Takata moved in with Dr Hayashi, she was following what was standard practice for students/teachers at that time. Western Reiki imports certain sensitivities to Reiki: it's possible that the spiritual practices we follow (whether Japanese, or pagan, or Wiccan, or Christian... whatever) have a greater effect on the flow and quality of energy than the practices followed just after Reiki's codification. For example, Reiki guides which are part of Western Reiki but not of Traditional (or whatever you want to call it) Reiki - is it possible that their presence actually does concentrate the energy and make extended hands-on work unnecessary?

    Just a few thoughts by way of discussion.
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    Post by Milarepa Fri May 01, 2009 5:26 am

    Pandora wrote:OK then here's the other view point.

    Why should Reiki take an hour?

    12 hand positions generally, correspond to the endocrine system. giving a thorough over-all treatment.

    Pandora wrote:
    For example, Reiki guides which are part of Western Reiki but not of Traditional (or whatever you want to call it) Reiki - is it possible that their presence actually does concentrate the energy and make extended hands-on work unnecessary?


    Western Reiki, as in Usui Shiki Ryoho, is, or at least, was, traditional Reiki, imo. What Takata sensei taught was as close to what Usui sensei taught as we'd ever get.

    'Reiki Guides', are a part of individuals' spirituality, whom have incorporated them into their Reiki practice. Western Reiki, as in Takata sensei lineage, isn't synonomous with 'Reiki Guides'. Smile.

    Take care
    Wayne
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    Post by Pandora Fri May 01, 2009 6:04 am

    Milarepa wrote:
    Pandora wrote:OK then here's the other view point.

    Why should Reiki take an hour?

    12 hand positions generally, correspond to the endocrine system. giving a thorough over-all treatment.

    Pandora wrote:
    For example, Reiki guides which are part of Western Reiki but not of Traditional (or whatever you want to call it) Reiki - is it possible that their presence actually does concentrate the energy and make extended hands-on work unnecessary?


    Western Reiki, as in Usui Shiki Ryoho, is, or at least, was, traditional Reiki, imo. What Takata sensei taught was as close to what Usui sensei taught as we'd ever get.

    'Reiki Guides', are a part of individuals' spirituality, whom have incorporated them into their Reiki practice. Western Reiki, as in Takata sensei lineage, isn't synonomous with 'Reiki Guides'. Smile.

    Take care
    Wayne

    I hear what you're saying about the 12 hand positions, but why do we need them when we can treat the whole body from one part of it?

    I get confused about what we should call the various Reiki's. If I refer to "Western Reiki" I believe it means Reiki and everything else that's become conflated into it over the years, post-Takata. "Japanese" or "Eastern" Reiki could therefore mean Reiki as it is practised in Japan.

    Is there a protocol governing what we call these things?

    I am aware that Mrs Takata didn't teach about guides. However, many of her students and those following after her have done. Is this because these guides existed beforehand, and made themselves known to us when our consciousness expanded sufficiently?
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    Post by Milarepa Fri May 01, 2009 6:26 am

    Pandora wrote:

    I hear what you're saying about the 12 hand positions, but why do we need them when we can treat the whole body from one part of it?

    'Reiki' comes out from us in all directions at all times (this is why protection isn't needed, btw). Most notably it comes from the hands, eyes & mouth. When we place our hands on another, in any one area, that area get's maximum affect.

    Maybe try this on a willing participant sometime. If they have a toothache for example, treat their big toe with Reiki. Time it. Then wait a little time. Then go treat the toothache locally, time that. See what the difference is.

    Usually, within healing, unless one is a hypochondriac, one ants to get better as quick as pssible. This is why the hand positions are useful. A healthy endocrine system, which is a complete system, ensures a healthy body. treating one endocrine gland is not neccesarily treating all endocrine glands sufficentely.

    Pandora wrote:
    I get confused about what we should call the various Reiki's. If I refer to "Western Reiki" I believe it means Reiki and everything else that's become conflated into it over the years, post-Takata.

    Unfortunately, this is true. Sometimes too much knowledge isn't a good thing. with so much information available now, and less regulated training, much of important Reiki training has been misplaced.


    Pandora wrote:
    Is there a protocol governing what we call these things?

    Western Reiki is used by some to denote Takata-sensei lineage. My own opinion is they are all Takata sensei lineage anyhow, (cheeky grin here).

    Pandora wrote:
    I am aware that Mrs Takata didn't teach about guides. However, many of her students and those following after her have done. Is this because these guides existed beforehand, and made themselves known to us when our consciousness expanded sufficiently?

    Good point. I weas gonna mention it earlier, but didn't incase i offended you, Smile.

    some have found out about 'guides'. So, down the line, there are 'Reiki Guides'. My own opinion is the term is a made-up one. Reiki has no guides, and needs no guides. Now, a person may have guides if they wish, but just cause a person is Reiki initiated, does not make everything in existence Reiki, such as guides, and all healing. Smile.

    Take care
    Wayne
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    Post by aronaya Fri May 01, 2009 6:39 am

    In response to Pandora's question, suggesting that the power has been turned up, making shorter energy healing sessions more effective in general, I think there is some truth to that. Certainly students are coming to me more ready to dive in deeper faster.

    However, I have also seen, on the occasions when clients choose a three-hour treatment, that healing is much deeper and more comprehensive, and the client takes home a more integrated understanding of their personal healing vision.

    So, my challenge to Reiki people is, go deeper, spend more time, and see for yourself whether it makes sense or not.

    Blessings,
    Aronaya
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    Post by ZenDave Fri May 01, 2009 11:30 am

    I have seen it said on another forum where Takata Sensei was quoted as saying to treat the area of the problem. If someone has a headache treat the head.

    In my time being Reiki I have also seen it said that the 12 hand positions were intended as learning tools. That way you hit everything while developing the insight and no how to more specifically treat a problem.

    In my experience of hand positions or no, when I first began my Reiki journey I always used the hand positions. After about a year or so, I began experimenting more with just letting the Reiki flow through my be resting my hands on my hips and "letting it rip".

    Initially I found this was as good as hand positions. So then I began rarely using them.

    After a few years I began to notice I wasn't quite getting the same experience. I was not having the feeling that my energy tank had been filled,etc.

    I really couldn't understand it, so after a long while I tried the hand positions again. Lo and behold I had ended up clearing a blockage and getting that "completed" feeling again.

    What was needed was more intensive Reiki in one of the positions to allow another to start clearing the block.

    Now I'm a proponent of hand positions again.


    As far as the idea of guides go, I think of it like this. Surely guides exist in some form. but I do not think them to be Reiki specific. I am a bliever that guides ( whatever they may in fact be including subconcious aspects of ourselves) tell us what we need to hear at the time.

    They help to cultivate us. What is the point of telling us something we won't accept? But overtime they can nurture us in the direction we need to go.

    I could say it is possible they have amped things up. But at the same time the belief that they are could be what is doing the amping.

    Also remember, overtime we are going to improve. So a particular thing may take less time than it used to if the cause is the same.

    Other forms of energy work also speak of things such as being aable to hold a greater quantity of energy, as well as an improvement in the quality of the energy ( the energy itself is the same but we can only handle so much at one time).

    On the topic of how Takata's students taught, remember we have folks that created their own systems as well. Arthur Robertson for one. Good ol Raku Kei. Do we know how many of them practiced EXACTLY as she taught them? What other training have these folks had?

    Just because Takata selected them does not make them perfect. Remember none of the RM's she created were all that experienced as RM's at the time of her death.

    Just some things to think about.

    Blessed Ever-Present Moment
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    Post by Dragonfly Fri May 01, 2009 1:12 pm

    Great discussion, thank you! cheers

    One of the things I like about the hand positions is that it gives you a place to start and to finish, which helps focus my attention on what I'm doing. I generally do follow the hand positions but may move around or go to different places depending upon what I'm intuiting. Sometimes there are areas that need attention that a client didn't mention because another issue was more immediately pressing.

    I have clients who do receive medical attention for their conditions but also believe very strongly that Reiki helps them. So, they make sure to come regularly until their condition stabilizes and they have experienced healing to a degree where they don't need to have Reiki all the time. Many people don't realize that for this type of healing to be truly beneficial that they have to commit to the process too - it's not just what Reiki can do, it's what THEY can do with the Reiki they are receiving.
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    Post by Pandora Fri May 01, 2009 7:41 pm

    Another thought on hand positions:

    If we follow the Hayashi method of byosen, we are scanning for hibiki and then we treat that area. What then happens to the hand positions?
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    Post by Milarepa Fri May 01, 2009 9:26 pm

    The 12 usual hand positions are a good 'all-round' treatment. As they treat the 7 major endocrine glands, which are integral to a persons health.

    Byosen, and Reiji ho can stil be performed in a session in where someone does the formal hand positions.

    It's just up to the practitioner what time they spend on what. Smile.

    Take care
    Wayne
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    Post by Pandora Sat May 02, 2009 5:28 am

    I have noted for myself the correspondence between the endocrine glands and the hand positions. However, there is another correspondence which may be even more relevant: that of the chakras. So the chakras correspond to the endocrine glands correspond to the hand positions. As we are giving energy, it's the chakras which benefit first as they are energy centres - isn't it?

    As part of my A&P study, I learnt that there is a master gland which controls every single endocrine gland: the pituitary gland. Treating this gland, therefore, will treat every other gland in the body, as well as the other body systems which are governed by the endocrine glands. So if we just do the head positions it should be as good as doing the whole body - although maybe less direct, working on the "master" gland will affect every other gland.
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    Post by Dragonfly Sat May 02, 2009 5:36 am

    Pandora wrote:Another thought on hand positions:

    If we follow the Hayashi method of byosen, we are scanning for hibiki and then we treat that area. What then happens to the hand positions?

    I think it's not a case of either/or, but both (or all.) I think individual situations, plus certain preferences or intuition will guide us to do what works best for each Reiki treatment.

    I had a client who had previously lived in Japan and received Reiki treatments there. She said that they always did treatments with the client laying face down, but I almost always start my treatments with the clients facing up (I have them turn over to face down about halfway through although if I have a client with physical issues that make it difficult for them to do that, or if I am doing a shorter session, I do not ask them to lay face down.) I found the information very interesting but didn't feel that I needed to alter the way I was already doing my treatments.
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    Post by Milarepa Sat May 02, 2009 7:59 am

    Pandora wrote: So the chakras correspond to the endocrine glands correspond to the hand positions. As we are giving energy, it's the chakras which benefit first as they are energy centres - isn't it?


    That could be said, yeah, Smile. Whether it's the optimal way to treat something or not is a different story, Smile.

    It depends kinda on what came first, hehe. Do the endocrine glands exist because of the chakras. Or, is is the chakras (these energetic fluctuations), that tell a 'sensitive' person, that important parts of the body are here?

    This is important if 'issues' arise within the chakras first, or in the endocrine glands. To me, fwiw, i feel the chakras were a concept created by the folks who wrote the vedas, as a way of describing parts of the human anatomy (endocrine glands) they may not have been familiar with. If this was the case, of course the chakras are useful as a diagnostic avenue, but to treat the source, i.e. what is giving of the energetic flucuation, is the best way to go, imo. Smile.

    Take care
    Wayne
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    Post by Pandora Sat May 02, 2009 8:16 pm

    Wayne, I think it depends on whether you hold to the view that the energy field holds the patterns for the physical body. There are various experiments that have shown that it does, and that dis-ease forms first in the energy bodies. Barbara Ann Brennan's books have more information on this. Also the experiments by the Kirlians about the energy fields of plants are quite well-known.
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    Post by Milarepa Sat May 02, 2009 9:39 pm

    Pandora wrote:Wayne, I think it depends on whether you hold to the view that the energy field holds the patterns for the physical body.

    For sure, it depends on ones view, Smile.

    Pandora wrote:
    There are various experiments that have shown that it does, and that dis-ease forms first in the energy bodies. Barbara Ann Brennan's books have more information on this. Also the experiments by the Kirlians about the energy fields of plants are quite well-known.

    Is it actual disease that is forming first there, or is it outward manifestations of disease forming in the body, that can be noticed first?

    take care
    Wayne


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    Post by Thaak Sun May 03, 2009 6:06 pm

    Ok, I've finally read through this thread. Very interesting topics indeed!

    1) I'd like to share that I've changed my pricing structure. I tell my clients to assume they will be here for an hour, but that I will only charge them for as long as the session takes. My reason for this, is sometimes I'll find I've sat with them for 20 minutes, half an hour, 40 minutes or some other increment and felt done. But because they paid for an hour, I felt obligated to sit for the extra time. I feel its fair to myself and the client that I only charge them, and only sit, for the amount of time it takes for me to feel "done."

    That being said, I do understand the original poster's point. Are we that less dedicated that we charge $60 or more for an hour, and then only treat for an hour? This is kinda a sticky slope. A catch-22 if you will. If I completely dedicate my life to the life of a Reiki teacher and/or practitioner, then I won't have enough money to eat, let alone put a roof over my head and clothes on my back. The client won't have enough money to see me on the hyper-regular basis as Takata did, as Reiki, at least in the US, is not covered by insurance. So what do I do here?

    We do not live in a society that supports our healers like they did in mid-20th century Japan or 12th century North America.

    We as practitioners owe it to our clients to be as healthy as we can be. To do that, we need to make sure that we have food, shelter, clothing, and a lack of daily stress. The inability to comfortably provide the first three assures we will not enjoy the last.

    Until our current economic paradigm shifts, I do not forsee the current "way things are done" changing all that much.

    On another, slightly off topic, and I think interesting note:

    When I have a thought about a client, share an experiential anecdote, share a case study, or what have you, I notice that my chakra's all become hot, my hands become hot. Very similarly to when I am letting Reiki flow. So perhaps this is just part of the session being an on-going one, even when the client and I are not actually participating in the moment.

    I fully believe that when a client comes to see you, that a spiritual contract is signed that you will be of assistance to them as long as they require. What this means is that you are the intermediary for the Reiki phenomenon for this person for as long as needed. I've had some clients who I hadn't heard from in months, send me an email asking if I'd recently sent them Reiki. Well I hadn't consciously, but for whatever reason they were having some trouble, felt Reiki happen, and the first thought that popped into their head was that I had sent them Reiki.

    Who knows what really happened. But I like to believe that until that person no longer requires my assistance in their healing journey, then I will be there to assist whether I'm consciously aware of it or not.

    And I'm ok with that.
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    Post by Pandora Sun May 03, 2009 8:18 pm

    Andy I like your charging structure and reflections on it! I tell people to allow up to 75 - 90 minutes for a Reiki session, which means I could work on them for most if not all that time - or some of it. In the past I've given what I thought was a "short" session and spent the rest of the time talking to them about their issues or Reiki.
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    Post by Thaak Mon May 04, 2009 3:08 am

    Pandora wrote:Andy I like your charging structure and reflections on it! I tell people to allow up to 75 - 90 minutes for a Reiki session, which means I could work on them for most if not all that time - or some of it. In the past I've given what I thought was a "short" session and spent the rest of the time talking to them about their issues or Reiki.

    Exactly, often they end up sticking around for up to a couple of hours. I would only charge them though, for the amount of time that I was active with the Reiki flow.
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    Post by Pandora Mon May 04, 2009 5:15 am

    Thaak wrote:
    Pandora wrote:Andy I like your charging structure and reflections on it! I tell people to allow up to 75 - 90 minutes for a Reiki session, which means I could work on them for most if not all that time - or some of it. In the past I've given what I thought was a "short" session and spent the rest of the time talking to them about their issues or Reiki.

    Exactly, often they end up sticking around for up to a couple of hours. I would only charge them though, for the amount of time that I was active with the Reiki flow.

    And that's why I find it better to charge for the session, rather than per hour. The counselling part of the session has qualifications, CPD, and other expenditure associated with it that needs to be recouped as well as in the Reiki part, and if I charge for the counselling side it's acknowledging the training, skills and experience that goes into the counselling session. And the Reiki flows as we speak too.

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