I did not know that the grave of Mikao Usui was moved

Hello

I was reading some things on Don Becketts joreiki website today.

Mr Beckett says:

THERE has been much speculation about the fact that Mikao Usui's burial site and memorial stone are on the grounds of Saihoji Temple in Tokyo -- a temple belonging to the Jodo Shyu sect of Buddhism. Some of Usui's students and family members have said that Mikao Usui was a Tendai Buddhist all his life; and some people claim that Usui converted to Shingon Buddhism as a young man. So, how did his burial site come to be on the property of Saihoji Temple?

Some claim its presence there as proof that Usui was not a Tendai Buddhist. Others have said that the Saihoji Temple grounds were formerly the property of a Tendai sect. And still others have speculated that the site of Usui's memorial was chosen by the president of the Usui Reiki Ryoho Gakkai (Society) at the time, Admiral Ushida -- possibly because of its proximity to the Usui Gakkai meeting place.

Below is an email from Dave King -- received July 4, 2009 -- which seems to clear up the confusion about this:

* A colleague took a trip to the Saihouji temple in Tokyo a few weeks ago. He chatted with a few people and received the following information.

1. The temple was moved there in 1921 when they widened the rail track and extended the road. They pointed out the information written on the plaque outside the temple (see images attached).
2. Stones from a Tendai graveyard including the Usui plot were transferred there between 1960 and 1961 when they cut the subway under route 4 near what is now a McDonalds.


Mr Beckett again:

So ... apparently Usui's gravesite was in a Tendai cemetery -- confirming the assertion that he died a Tendai Buddhist -- and was later moved because of a construction project.

source:
http://usui-reiki.johreiki.net/Reiki_Mysteries_and_Myths/Mikao_Usui+Saihoji_Temple.php

There's been some concern with some, as to the validity of Dave's stuff. Dave created Usui Do, which is claimed to be the 'original' style. Concerns have been voiced for years.

Take care
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:There's been some concern with some, as to the validity of Dave's stuff. Dave created Usui Do, which is claimed to be the 'original' style. Concerns have been voiced for years.

Take care
Wayne

Perhaps Wayne, but the story related above is just too plausible to ignore because of the messenger.

For sure, nothing should ever be ignored, . However, with any person who may have created a style, which owes it's existence to 'originality' claims, and, elusive nuns, etc, a person should use their common sense, and check the things out for themselves, before simply assuming. Hence my 'cautioning' post.

It may or may not say the temple was moved in 1921. It hasn't showed the claim about Usui sensei's grave, which if it had of been included, is what's of interest to Reiki. not 2 photo's purportedly saying a temple was moved in 1921.

Dave king is of the 'Usui sensei was tendai' camp, and this is, of course, good news for his style.

Take care
Wayne

Thaak wrote:.. but the story related above is just too plausible to ignore because of the messenger.

At first appearance, perhaps.


Don Beckett and I were talking about this just recently (maybe 2 weeks ago?), and I asked him to consider why, if - as Dave claims - the stones from the Usui plot were amongst stones from a Tendai graveyard which were only moved to the Saihoji Temple in 1960/61, how come, on the memorial stone itself (dated 1927), it is written:

"Lately, many students came together and decided to erect this memorial in the graveyard at Saihoji Temple..." ?

Don promptly emailed Dave - said he can't wait to hear Dave's explanation.

Me likewise


.
.

Toma wrote:
I was reading some things on Don Becketts joreiki website today....

source:
http://usui-reiki.johreiki.net/Reiki_Mysteries_and_Myths/Mikao_Usui+Saihoji_Temple.php

Hi Toma,

well, Don has now has a reply from Dave King - if you revisit the linked page you will see Don has updated it.

as you can see, Dave states:

Dave King wrote:My understanding is that:
1. The Saihoji temple ... was relocated to its present site in 1921.
2. The Usui family burial plot was moved to the monument's location at the current Saihoji temple in 1960/61..... The whole Usui family plot was moved. Usui's wife and son are there too.

So, to recap:
Basically, Dave is saying that originally Usui-sensei was buried in a Tendai graveyard.
However, his memorial stone was erected in a totally different graveyard (ie. the one in the Saihoji Temple grounds).
And it wasn't until more than 30 years later, as a result of excavation work for a new subway, that (in 1960/61) Usui-sensei's remains (and also those of his wife and son) were disinterred and, along with the grave-stones, were moved to the Saihoji location?

So,
we are being asked to believe that, in 1927, the honourable and respectful creators of the memorial stone - instead of erecting it at the grave-site of their beloved Sensei, decided to place it in a totally different graveyard in the grounds of a totally different temple - hidden away in amongst some graves with no connection to Sensei at all?

That they chose to omit from the memorial inscription any reference to Usui-sensei being buried elsewhere - would that not have been somewhat disrespectful in itself? It would mean that future students would be denied the opportunity to pay their respects to Usui-sensei by visiting the grave.

And is it perhaps too convenient that some thirty years after the erecting of the memorial stone in the Saihoji temple graveyard, there just happened to be plenty of space directly beside the memorial amongst the crowded graves for both Usui-sensei's tomb (in which his daughter is also interred) and that of his son, to be erected?



"curiouser and curiouser" cried Alice...


.
.

Rlei_ki wrote:

So, to recap:
Basically, Dave is saying that originally Usui-sensei was buried in a Tendai graveyard.
However, his memorial stone was erected in a totally different graveyard (ie. the one in the Saihoji Temple grounds).
And it wasn't until more than 30 years later, as a result of excavation work for a new subway, that (in 1960/61) Usui-sensei's remains (and also those of his wife and son) were disinterred and, along with the grave-stones, were moved to the Saihoji location?

So,
we are being asked to believe that, in 1927, the honourable and respectful creators of the memorial stone - instead of erecting it at the grave-site of their beloved Sensei, decided to place it in a totally different graveyard in the grounds of a totally different temple - hidden away in amongst some graves with no connection to Sensei at all?

That they chose to omit from the memorial inscription any reference to Usui-sensei being buried elsewhere - would that not have been somewhat disrespectful in itself? It would mean that future students would be denied the opportunity to pay their respects to Usui-sensei by visiting the grave.

We can use Occam's razor for this, since we're in wonderland. The folks who created the memorial for Usui sensei, were adept at that (now rediscovered 'original' Reiki technique) of time-travel, using HSZSN.

They knew, that if they created a memorial stone in 1927, that the tendai raves would be moved in 1960, to Sahoji temple. They prob teleported 30 years ahead to dig the subway also.

Take care
Wayne

edit: that should read tendai graves. It's too funny a typo not to include though!

Milarepa wrote:We can use Occam's razor for this, since we're in wonderland.

Hmm, the thought of Alice Liddell, with a cut-throat razor ...?

Scary


so who would you suggest to direct the movie version of this "Slasher in Wonderland"

Wes Craven? Sam Raimi? or perhaps someone like Lucio Fulci, or Umberto Lenzi?





.
.

One things for sure, it won't be Roman Polanski!


(got it in the end james)

Was the memorial stone put in position shortly after Usui's death, or when the grave was transferred to the other graveyard?

Is it possible that the words referring to the other graveyard were added when the stone was moved?

I remember reading here that there had been a dispute between the family and the Gakkai - would this have meant there was a delay in erecting the memorial headstone? It seems logical to me that the family's headstone would have been erected shortly after burial, and that the Gakkai's headstone erected some time later, after the family had washed their hands of the Gakkai.

Pandora wrote:Was the memorial stone put in position shortly after Usui's death,

The memorial stone was erected in Feb 1927. Usui sensei passed 1926. A translation..

Composed by: Masayuki Okada, Doctor of Literature - subordinate 3rd rank, 3rd Order of Merit.

Calligraphy by: Navy Rear Admiral Juzaburo Ushida - subordinate 4th rank, 3rd Order of Merit, distinguished service 4th class.

February, the 2nd year of Showa (1927 A.D.)

Source: http://www.aetw.org/reiki_usui_memorial.html

Pandora wrote:
or when the grave was transferred to the other graveyard?

that's if it was really moved. A translation of the memorial..

Lately, many students came together and decided to erect this memorial in the graveyard at Saihoji Temple in the Toyotama district to honour his benevolence,

Source: http://www.aetw.org/reiki_usui_memorial.html

Pandora wrote:
Is it possible that the words referring to the other graveyard were added when the stone was moved?

The words 'referring' to the 'other' graveyard, are the graveyard it is currently in. Dave King is alleging the grave has been moved from a previous tendai area. As we can see from the memorial translation, Usui sensei's students say they erected that memorial in Feb 1927, in Saihoji Temple. Where it stands. They couldn't have made the memorial in 1927, as they claim, and say it stands in Saihoji, unless they somehow knew 30 years later it would be moved there, hehe!

Take care
Wayne

Pandora wrote:Was the memorial stone put in position shortly after Usui's death, or when the grave was transferred to the other graveyard?

Is it possible that the words referring to the other graveyard were added when the stone was moved?

Which words? [ even i'm getting confused now ]

We are told Usui-sensei died March 9th 1926 in Fukuyama. His body was returned to Tokyo and his cremated remains interred (in the Saihoji Temple graveyard - or not?! ) sometime soon after.

The memorial stone, as far as we know (and even Dave seems to agree on this!), was erected in the Saihoji Temple graveyard in 1927 (it is dated February 1927, though could have been erected several weeks later), and has not moved since.

There is no reference on the stone (or anywhere else as far as I am aware of) to Usui-sensei being interred at another location...

On a plaque at the entrance to Saihoji, it mentions that the Temple was relocated to it's present location in 1921.





______
EDIT:

It is interesting to note that in a translation of the Usui Memorial as provided by Andy Bowling*, it states:

Usui Memorial wrote:As a result of our pupils' recent meeting and discussion, we decided to erect a stone monument at the graveyard in his family temple so that we may bring his virtuous deed to light and transmit it to posterity; so, I was requested to arrange an epitaph for the monument.

* Translation: from old to modern Japanese by Hiroshi Doi, and from Japanese to English by Tetsuyuki Ono, 1998
.
.
.

Rlei_ki wrote:

______
EDIT:

It is interesting to note that in a translation of the Usui Memorial as provided by Andy Bowling*, it states:

Usui Memorial wrote:As a result of our pupils' recent meeting and discussion, we decided to erect a stone monument at the graveyard in his family temple so that we may bring his virtuous deed to light and transmit it to posterity; so, I was requested to arrange an epitaph for the monument.

what's also interesting, is that Rick Rivard is claiming that the translation of the Usui sensei's gravestone reads that the gravestone was erected by Usui sensei's son, Fuji, on March 9th, 1927. One year after Usui Sensei's death.

I find it hard to beleive Fuji would have tolerated a memorial stone on his fathers grave, which was blatantly wrong. Saying his father was at Saihoji, when he was really at a Tendai graveyard. surely Usui sensei's family would have needed ot give permission for such a memorial.

Two things with this. Either, the folks whom made the memorial stone told lies on it, that it wasn't erected in 1927 in Saihoji. Or, Dave is telling mistaken, or telling porkies.

If the folks whom erected the memeorial stone, where so disrespectful, as to lie on it about something, well heck, everything said on the memorial must be challenged!

that is, is we beleive Dave...


take care
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:I find it hard to beleive Fuji would have tolerated a memorial stone on his fathers grave, which was blatantly wrong. Saying his father was at Saihoji, when he was really at a Tendai graveyard...

Wayne,
While the claim is now being made that Usui-sensei's grave was originally at a different location, as far as I can see, no one is claiming that the memorial had originally been erected anywhere other than in the Saihoji temple graveyard.

So, if the grave was really originally at a different location, the memorial stone would not have been there at the graveside for Usui-sensei's son Fuji to have 'issues' with...


.
.

Rlei_ki wrote:

Milarepa wrote:I find it hard to beleive Fuji would have tolerated a memorial stone on his fathers grave, which was blatantly wrong. Saying his father was at Saihoji, when he was really at a Tendai graveyard...

Wayne,
While the claim is now being made that Usui-sensei's grave was originally at a different location, as far as I can see, no one is claiming that the memorial had originally been erected anywhere other than in the Saihoji temple graveyard.

So, if the grave was really originally at a different location, the memorial stone would not have been there at the graveside for Usui-sensei's son Fuji to have 'issues' with...


.
.

I know no-pone claimed that, i'm throwing up the reasoning that the memorial can only be accurate in what it's alluding, . I wrote this my won way, hehe.

the memorial is at Usui sensie's grave, in saohiji temple. it states it was erected in Feb 1927. Any idea why Usui sensei's students would erect a memorial in a grave he wasn't in?

might seem disrespectful that. So, back to what i'd said. If it something was erected in Feb 1927, but wasn't at the grave, then the students were most definitiely giving the wrong impression. So, is the memorial correct? I'd say so, as i don't think Usui sensei's family would have tolereted a memorial stone that was wrong I.E the memorial was laid in Feb 1927 at Usui sensei's grave, in Saihoji temple. As the iompression gives. Or maybe i don't know enough bout Japanese culture? Do they erect memroials in graveyards where folks are buried in others?

take care
Wayne

aloha ---

this is indeed quite a mystery. and one of our greatest obstacles in solving it is our unfamiliarity with Japanese culture -- not only modern Japanese culture, but 1920s' Japanese culture!

is it believable that the first members of the Gakkai would have erected a memorial stone to Usui in a place where his remains were not buried? not knowing Japanese culture, i can only relate things from American (USA) culture. here, famous people are often memorialized with monuments or plaques (also bridges, highways, schools, theaters, etc.) that have no connection to their place of burial -- and these memorials do not necessarily include information about the place of burial.

in the case of Mikao Usui, someone has mentioned here that there was reportedly animosity between Usui's family and the Usui Gakkai. if that is true, it may very well explain why the Gakkai would have put their memorial stone somewhere other than Usui's grave. is it likely that the family did not allow the Gakkai stone to be placed at Usui's grave (and may not have permitted any reference to his grave on the memorial stone)?

as for the credibility of the Gakkai version of events -- that itself is not above question. the Gakkai say that Mikao Usui founded the Gakkai in 1922, and that he was its first president -- but both Dave King and Chris Marsh say the Gakkai was started after Usui's death (which means, of course, that Usui could not have been its first president). Mr. Doi (a member of the Gakkai) translates the memorial stone as saying that Usui founded the Gakkai in April 1922 -- which is not believable to me, considering other evidence at hand.*
____________________________________________________________________________________
* Oct 20 & 23: (1) according to Dave King, the kanji in question here are gakkai mouke, which he says can be interpreted “to mean whatever you like since it lacks any context as written. One interpretation is simply that ‘he opened a dojo.’ Doi-san interprets it as ‘he founded the URR Gakkai.’” (2) the translation on James Deacon's site says "training centre." (3) in the diary of Melissa Riggall, we find the following (from a Buddhist nun named Tenon-In, who claimed to have worked with Mikao Usui almost every day, from 1920-1926):
"We arrived in Tokyo at the end of March [1922]. In early April O-Sensei found a small room in Harajuku. Then came the earthquake of 1923. We all helped with the injured and the lost ones. Usui moved to a new room and at last had a separate place in which to sleep. Occasionally O-Sensei went out to work in the City." how odd, if Usui had indeed founded the URR Gakkai in April 1922, that Tenon-In would make no mention of it!
____________________________________________________________________________________

the quoted bit of translation provided by Andy Bowling -- "...we decided to erect a stone monument at the graveyard in his family temple..." -- this is the first time i've seen that, and it really seems to nail things down! BUT ... again, we have to ask, is this really what the memorial stone says? according to the translation commissioned by James Deacon, it says: "...decided to erect this memorial in the graveyard at Saihoji Temple..." and Rick Rivard's presentation is: "...decided to build this memorial at Saihoji Temple..." nothing about Saihoji Temple being Usui's family temple!

it was stated here that Mr. Doi was the translator of the Andy Bowling version. remembering that Mr. Doi's translation also has Usui founding the Gakkai, i have to wonder about the accuracy of this other point as well.

in conclusion, the only thing that seems for sure in all of this is that the memorial stone was erected on the grounds of Saihoji Temple -- but i don't find it hard to believe that Usui's remains were not originally buried there.

db

Hiya Don,
Great to see you here!

johreiki wrote:

this is indeed quite a mystery. and one of our greatest obstacles in solving it is our unfamiliarity with Japanese culture -- not only modern Japanese culture, but 1920s' Japanese culture!

is it believable that the first members of the Gakkai would have erected a memorial stone to Usui in a place where his remains were not buried? not knowing Japanese culture, i can only relate things from American (USA) culture. here, famous people are often memorialized with monuments or plaques (also bridges, highways, schools, theaters, etc.) that have no connection to their place of burial -- and these memorials do not necessarily include information about the place of burial.

yes, this is a good point! I dunno what way Japanese culture works, but would we erect a memeorial in a graveyard where the body wasn't buried? Perhaps, if we didn't knwo where the body was, i assume.

johreiki wrote:
in conclusion, the only thing that seems for sure in all of this is that the memorial stone was erected on the grounds of Saihoji Temple -- but i don't find it hard to believe that Usui's remains were not originally buried there.

This whole topic is really interesting, i hope we can al continue to explore it some more, .

Take care
Wayne

Wayne ---

thanks for the reply. you wrote:

I dunno what way Japanese culture works, but would we erect a memorial in a graveyard where the body wasn't buried? Perhaps, if we didn't know where the body was, i assume.

yes -- if we didn't know where the body was, or if we were not permitted to put anything where the body was ... or maybe even, if the graveyard with the remains was a long way from our meeting place, we would put a memorial in a graveyard that was closer to us...? i don't know the answer, but all of these seem likely possibilities to me....

it seems odd that there are so many mysteries in the story of reiki; things that it would seem could be established one way or another ... but instead we end up with multiple versions, unable to verify any of them! just recently i've heard, from a student of Jikiden Reiki, 2 new (to me) versions of how Dr. Hayashi died -- which makes a total of 5 versions i've heard of that story....

db