Milarepa wrote:
You're quote about science is right.
.....................What you're quote might mean (without reading the whole text) is that you're looking at your computer monitor right now. Your brain interprets it as always there. However, the monitor isn't always there.
.....................The universe is so dynamic that that monititor with it's sub-atomic particles is moving at such a fast rate it is actually in our exitence at one point, and actually vanishes from existence the next point (an exciting question which gets my adrenaline going is where does it go!). It's very fast, but quantum physics has shown this is what happens.
.....................Likewise, when you move across the room, you aren't actually moving. You're disappearing and appearing at a different point, which gives the illusion of movement. Something that also supports what i've said about Reiki not moving anywhere, or being sent, now that i think bout it i must get the details and post it in the relevant topic).
my perception of what said above, is bit difficult for me to explain, but i'll try...the sub-atomic world, i feel, is a miniature version of our universe... scientific knowledge tells us that an atom contains particles like a nucleus and electrons revolving around... through which 'bounded rationality' the protons and neutrons are confined inside a nucleus, we yet have to discover... and then what creates the centripetal force to keep the elecctrons moving around the nucleus, is still under debate... on one level we say that atom is discrete, meaning that it is the most tiny possible building block of matter, and yet we say, rather prove, that fission chain reactions and the fusion phenomenon have the tendency of splitting an atom into its anatomical constituents...the sub-atomic particles exist within the atom, and once outside the atom, their behaviour, their existence, their realm, so utterly changes, that we get amazed....
same is true with the entire universe... everything owes its existence not to its 'existence' but to the existence of that atomosphere within which it is housed... so this concept of 'relative existence' is sometimes the key to understand the true existence, if ever it has to be...
the same concept of relative existence defines our material world... lets take an example : our planet is revolving around sun in its orbit, and also on its own axis on a definite speed... means that all that is housed within our planet is also moving at the same speed... similar to the principle that the speed of the passengers in a fast moving car is neither less nor more than the car itself...
once, if you can suppose for a moment, we can change our speed relative to the speed of the planet in motion, we lose our reality or even existence... so where was our existence in the first place ?? or ever it was, if really so ?? so if i try to reconcile with your example of working at my computer screen, i would say that computer screen only 'tends' to exist or gives a semblance of existence, otherwise and technically speaking, what i see as compter screen a nano second ago, is no longer a computer screen anymore , rather it has already moved ahead, and something has come in its place, but since i have moved ahead with the same speed, i hardly notice the motion, and my this 'inability' to sense the innate motion, is the key to my own eixtence
Milarepa wrote:Anyhow, for the scientists to arrive at this conclusion, and without a doubt to further understand it, and move beyond it, they will need to continue to look at terms, definitions, and certanties. If you're saying anything is possible with quantum physics, this is true for sure. It's a theoretical science largely, so anything is possible.
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as a theory, no doubt, quantum physics is amazingly turly spiritual
Milarepa wrote: Lambs-Wool wrote:in sprituality, what i can see as of today, is that better we refrain defining things, the higher we go
In a sense this is true. We should elaborate though,
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It's useful to not get too fixated on any single thing in a spiritual path, be it concept, technique, experience etc. However, if we don't attempt to understand what we are doing (as in technique) what the reason is for doing the technique (so we're not merely unthinking robots), and what the experience means, we won't understand our journey.
maybe my initial understanding and readings in philosophy has sorta disturbed my concepts so badly (of course you can tell it more precisely, since you have been through all the details of how philosophical principles sometimes operate so irrrationally in order to approach true rationality)....
no doubt we need words, phrases, terms in order to interpret things, and if words are lost from humanity, we will lose everything... yet, sometimes, especially in subtle, objectless, blissful moments of true presence, we feel it more convenient to not to define or explain what we been feeling, since, like dreams, sometimes beautiful things start vanishing on the very next moment we start explaining, defining, or memorizing them
Milarepa wrote:
Throughout religion, and independant spirituality, folks always need to search for answers and advice. Both you & I have done this, and will definitely need help again it's fair to assume. What sets us apart from other species is our intellect. If we are mindfull (and that's the crucial part in ALL spirituality) then we can fully embrace our humanity, in all it's glory, and it'll accentuate our understanding.
forgive, i have fragmented your paragraph, but i couldnt resist, since it is such lovingly been written, and exposed... beautiful reading
!
Milarepa wrote:something you & I would understand is Ta'Wil, the esoteric understanding of the Holy Qu'Ran. Buddhist's also don't study sutras for years on end cause they're bored,
. Even going against my own earlier advice somewhat, no-one can suggest that a Zen buddhist would not be able to obtain enlightenment through the
study of one single Koan!
general readership : 'ta-wil' means logic, reason, deduction!
'tarteel' means recitation, normally without understanding the meaning, in a fashion religious devouts across all religions chant, or recite their holy books, sciptures, etc. with an attitude of reverence and sacredness.
'tanzeel' means a blissful moment when the innate meaning of the sentence or some word of a religious text gets 'transcended' on the heart (not mind) of the person...
what i personally feel here, that 'ta-wil', 'tarteel' and 'tanzeel' are all of them necessary, if we want to satisfy our heart and mind simultaneously
what you say Wayne ?
take care
salman
Take care
Wayne[/quote]