Daft initiatons... need some advice please...

Thaak wrote:

I would argue that the symbols are not actually placed in someone. The initiation process includes symbols, but the person is not initiated with symbols so to speak.

And you are sure of this...How?

Thaak wrote:

This is confusing though, because as the level of the practitioner increases, higher level symbols are typically initiated differently than they were for lower levels. However, I don't believe this confusion proves the opposite of my argument.

Huh?

Thaak wrote:

You obviously have meditated on the symbols quite a lot, as you discuss this quite a bit. Rather than trying to meditate on the symbols as though they are some separate entity placed within you from without, try training your focus more on the vibrational frequency of the symbol gives when the focus is made. Then focus on that frequency. Once you taste the frequency, and you can call it to you without visualizing the symbol. The symbol becomes unnecessary.

Ok...If you are correct in this...Whats the point or advantage? Why? And why would I instruct another in this approach, or attitude? Is this strictly a debate, or does it have a purpose to the rest of us?

I have meditated on the symbols as well...and yes they "taste" differently, feel would be the word I would use.

Thaak wrote:

It is separation consciousness, duality (and don't throw that, "stick my hand in a fire...freezer" analogy that doesn't work again at me please) mindedness when considering the symbols, a separate entity, that is giving you the power to do what you can do. If you look at the symbols, indeed the entire system of Reiki, as a tool for energetic manipulation, then things really start to get interesting.

Would you be so kind as to start another thread and school me in the disadvantages of separation consciousness?

RJ

Reikijim wrote:

Would you be so kind as to start another thread and school me in the disadvantages of separation consciousness?

RJ

I will indeed, tomorrow. Bedtime for Bonzo right now.

Milarepa wrote:

Thaak wrote:

But in the path of shamanism (a life path) that I am following, we are learning to do away with thought and do away with belief systems. I'm not there yet. Every day I wake up, I still have to remind myself of things and be aware of when I am judgmental or attached or whatever.

So lately, I've just been taking it a moment at a time. If I feel called to read some information, or share some information. I do it. But every time I actively try to seek new information by actively contemplating that idea, symbol, thought process, etc., I am not following the life path through shamanism.

I'm so glad you said this. We might need to moderate this topic after this. You know, i understand what you're saying here. It's a major reason why i've cooled of with shamanism. It was challenging to somehow integrate both paths in some ways. I choose Reiki. I guess it's cause of the want to know as much as possible about Reiki. I'm the kinda person who feels if i'm meant to teach something, i have a responsibility to know all about it. Then, it developed into an honour thing for me.

Shamanism kinda was almost a whole different ball game for me. ANd i felt if i was to stay true to that, then how could i fully commit to Reiki? I mean, how many paths can one really stay fully focussed on? Moreoever how many paths should one even attempt to fully walk at once?

Not talking about integrating various paths ot some degree into others. But fully abiding by any single path.

I do Yoga asatill of course. Vippasana meditation. Mndfullnes. Sometimes Qigong. Kuji-in. These are no way to the same focus as Reiki though. I guess just concentrating on one thing mostly, works for me.

Take care
Wayne

Wayne, there is only one path.

That path is yours.

Fully abide by your own path.

If the path has cobbles, or tarmac, or grass, or soil, does it matter? The path is not the surface!

Excellant advice, Chris. Many thanks!

Colin wrote:
Just thought I'd like to point out that not all styles of Reiki do use all the Reiki symbols as part of the initiation to Reiki level 1 (e.g. Komyo, Gendai and some forms of Usui Reiki Ryoho - don't know details about Jikiden Reiki initiation yet though!)

And of course, until some masters began making changes to the initiation processes they had been taught by Takata-sensei, Usui Shiki Ryoho would also have been entitled to a place on your list


.
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Milarepa wrote:
Ahh, hehe. Show me a Reiki practitioner of any style whom can't be traced to initiation into symbols (either themselves, or in lineage).

Like i'm saying, the symbols are active, even when we don't consciosuly use them. The symbols are always in play. Let's think about it, why on earth did Usui sensei empwer symbols, and pass them on in initiation? Cause they represented his expereince on Kurama Yama. As the spiritual initiation is passed down via lineage, the vehicle it is passed down in, is via the symbols. If however, one creates a system not using the symbols in initiaiton, then it can stil be passed on, as the founder has the ability, but, it is weeakend. this is why regular Reiju is required.

So would that mean that even though the Reiki Teacher has not actually intentionally placed or visualised any Reiki symbols whilst attuning his/her Reiki 1 student, the symbols (or properties of them) would still be passed on to the student, explaining why Reiki 1 students can do distant healing if they try?

By the same logic, wouldn't that also mean that a Reiki 1 student would also have received the ability to pass an attunement, if they knew the procedure and tried?

Here also..

SOME THOUGHTS ON INITIATION...
Copyright 2006 James Deacon
[Modified: Dec. 14. 2006]



<snipped for brevity>



IMO, modifying the initiations results in the student being 'fine-tuned' to a slightly different set of frequencies (some might say, a less 'pure' or less 'effective', perhaps even less-than-therapeutic, set of frequencies).

All that talk of passing impure energy down the lineage if styles are mixed is starting to sound like the only people who will have received pure Usui Reiki are those directly attuned by Mikao Usui or who have received un-modified attunements from people who have never received any attunements for any other style of Reiki. I think this probably means no one alive today (apart from maybe the odd Japanese nun who apparently was not taught any symbols) is capable of passing on completely pure Usui Reiki, as even Dr Hayashi and Mrs Takata are said to have modified the initiation process (and/or symbols) they used a some point(s) in their long careers.

This striving for a pure lineage also sounds rather like the search for a pure-bred Reiki master race who are the only ones who have pure Usui Reiki!

It is a good theory as to why some people feel different styles of Reiki feel different though!

Ai to Hikari
Colin

Colin wrote:

So would that mean that even though the Reiki Teacher has not actually intentionally placed or visualised any Reiki symbols whilst attuning his/her Reiki 1 student, the symbols (or properties of them) would still be passed on to the student, explaining why Reiki 1 students can do distant healing if they try?

absent healing can be done without Reiki, we know this. This though isn't what happens passively in Reiki. I feel that forsure, Reiki 1 students can absent heal, since they're initiated with HSZSN.

It's more of a stretch to say that they can absent heal without the teacher using HSZSN in their initiation. there's no deliberate act of empowerment with HSZSN there.

However, when a teacher is carrying out the spiritual empowerment, what we're doing is passing on what we ourselves are able to do. This is because we've been initaited into the symbols, .

Colin wrote:
By the same logic, wouldn't that also mean that a Reiki 1 student would also have received the ability to pass an attunement, if they knew the procedure and tried?

when we use DKM in the way we do now, in Usui Shiki Ryoho, we are in fact master initiating. So yeah, they could.

If we were performing a Reiju, it' still confering the ability of Reiki. And there is our own DKM in the mix. Can a person whom has solely reiceved Reiju, pass on that blessing? I dunno, possibly. As, they're actually experiencing the blerssing themselves. difference between Reiju & Denju, as we know, is how long one lasts for. Not how effective it is intially, per se.

Colin wrote:

Here also..

SOME THOUGHTS ON INITIATION...
Copyright 2006 James Deacon
[Modified: Dec. 14. 2006]



<snipped for brevity>



IMO, modifying the initiations results in the student being 'fine-tuned' to a slightly different set of frequencies (some might say, a less 'pure' or less 'effective', perhaps even less-than-therapeutic, set of frequencies).

All that talk of passing impure energy down the lineage if styles are mixed is starting to sound like the only people who will have received pure Usui Reiki are those directly attuned by Mikao Usui or who have received un-modified attunements from people who have never received any attunements for any other style of Reiki. I think this probably means no one alive today (apart from maybe the odd Japanese nun who apparently was not taught any symbols) is capable of passing on completely pure Usui Reiki, as even Dr Hayashi and Mrs Takata are said to have modified the initiation process (and/or symbols) they used a some point(s) in their long careers.

yeah, some might say impure, that's the way it was put, . I think the article is about suggesting that changes within the initiatons, are not always neccessarily a good thing. I've personally heard this is with Tera-Mai, some have said to me. That it feels weird.

My own reason for including the article, is to hopefully open up the possibility that the symbols do more, and are involved in, more than we think. even when one doesn't consciously use them.

Colin wrote:
This striving for a pure lineage also sounds rather like the search for a pure-bred Reiki master race who are the only ones who have pure Usui Reiki!

Penchant for writing dramatically, eh? Likewise here, hehe. Can't comment on striving for a pure lineage. I know folks do strive to find out the real teachings of Reiki though!

anyhow, isn't it the styles whom claim originality the ones whom are attempting to set themselves up above others? else, why go learn with them! Ahem... .

Colin wrote:
It is a good theory as to why some people feel different styles of Reiki feel different though!

If i got initiated into Sekhem, how come it feels different the Usui Reiki. Most folks can feel the differences in these styles. What's changed in them? surely the teachings don't affect teh energetic experience? It's got to be theh inclusion of other symbols, and the different initiation procedure.

We may be making a call to the US, but not all calls are to New York. Hehe.

Take care
Wayne