"God Jul" Anyone?

just on the topic of christmas, hehe, I was brought up mixed catholic and norse-way...anyway, personally i do not follow the catholic way or thought - however i was lucky and got a mad-irish-priest to take me through the catholic upbringing (my irish side) however in norway, the juletid (jule-tide) was practiced long before christianity came to our country (which was in 1100AD - so a fairly young christian state) - and also the importance and tradition i grew up with, was the return of the sun.... as i am speaking we have about 2hours daylight, and if you travel a bit more north it is 24h darkness, just the stars, oh and the moon to light the way.
We celebrate the return of the sun, simple, on the 24th - used to be a full week from the 23rd pre-christianity. this marks the end of the darktimes and the return of the light, and therefore we would burn a "juletre" the evergreen to encourage the suns return, hence the lights on your x-mas tree. Also the colours of x-mas has significance for us - the red and white of the "other-worldly" nisse (which you call santa clause) is the representation of the fly-agric mushroom that the "nisse" would live under, also this sacred mushroom was presented to humans by the reindeer who loves to eat it and fly away in the skies - humans picking up on this would then partake and fly with the reindeer and meet the "nisse and other elven like creatures of nature (not the underworld) The mushroom was considered the food of from the gods....
anyway the gift baring principle came with all festivities around equinoxes and solstices, but even more so at this time of year as it is a time to say thanks to what has been and embrace what is to be.
This i think, looking at our traditions in the "Juletid" (christmas time) is still very intact - but the actions are today supposed to be pointing toward the christ - from the middle east - and is very very vague from my experience here in norway.... and most people have a difficult time to relate christ with "jul" apart from the idea that it was the guys birthday - which is debunked from a historical perspective, from what i know.

hehe sorry for that side turn on the thread - please remove the post if not relevant hehe
just feel very strong about our "jule" (christmas) traditions.

anyway, wish you all the best "God Jul & godt nytt år" (merry christmas and a happy new year)

f

Yeah we might need to end up splitting the topic, it's very interesting the route the chat's now taking! So if we need to continue this in another topic we can do that. i'm into researching religion also, mainly cause i love religion! All religion! Any vehicle that can make a human realise there's something greater than THEM, is priceless.

There's much independant evidence to support what you've wrote Frank. Hehe, i keep the missus going, saying why we put up an Xmas tree, when it's actually a pagan ritual, and nothing to do with Christ. 'traditional' i get told. So on that score, no-one can say i'm traditional! .

Looking at what you wrote, and i'm gonna choose my words carefully here so not to offend anyones religion, the sun plays an integral part in more religions than would initially appear. In fact, very famous religious area is actually made to look like a sundial, and it works as a point of reference for the sun rising in the morning.

On a slightly different note, i completely understand what you're saying about Jesus historically not being accepted by some. This is said widespread. Before i make a point, i wanna say first, to me, if he was real, or it was analogy, there's as much value out of the analogy (i've found), than if he was real. Anyhow, this is the curious thing with historians..

There are set criteria for accepting something as having happened historically. i'll try to find the criteria, but the known info about Jesus does fit it. Folks forget, that some books of the bible are within 100 years of the Christian date of his birth. Scientifically carbon dated. This is huge evidence.

What is used to doubt Jesus existence, and it's a fair point, is that other scholars around the time of his birth/death, largely never mentioned him. What's not realised possibly, is that some of the scrolls that have been found where actually hidden, some of them at least. This might indicate that anything to do with Jesus was outlawed? By all accounts, he was a revolutionary, whom supressed folks looked up to, and began to beleive in themselves. Would this perceived challenge to Roman authority make them kill him? Possibly. It's not unknown for ancient powers to completely eradicate all details of a persons existence, to wipe them from the earth forever. With christianity being fully adopted by the Romans some 100's of years later, perhaps a person could understand why there's not widespread evidence of him.

Her's an interesting spread from Wikipdeia's actual founder on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus .

Good chat Frank!
Take care
Wayne

fshortt wrote:just on the topic of christmas, hehe, I was brought up mixed catholic and norse-way...anyway, personally i do not follow the catholic way or thought - however i was lucky and got a mad-irish-priest to take me through the catholic upbringing (my irish side) however in norway, the juletid (jule-tide) was practiced long before christianity came to our country (which was in 1100AD - so a fairly young christian state) - and also the importance and tradition i grew up with, was the return of the sun.... as i am speaking we have about 2hours daylight, and if you travel a bit more north it is 24h darkness, just the stars, oh and the moon to light the way.
We celebrate the return of the sun, simple, on the 24th - used to be a full week from the 23rd pre-christianity. this marks the end of the darktimes and the return of the light, and therefore we would burn a "juletre" the evergreen to encourage the suns return, hence the lights on your x-mas tree. Also the colours of x-mas has significance for us - the red and white of the "other-worldly" nisse (which you call santa clause) is the representation of the fly-agric mushroom that the "nisse" would live under, also this sacred mushroom was presented to humans by the reindeer who loves to eat it and fly away in the skies - humans picking up on this would then partake and fly with the reindeer and meet the "nisse and other elven like creatures of nature (not the underworld) The mushroom was considered the food of from the gods....
anyway the gift baring principle came with all festivities around equinoxes and solstices, but even more so at this time of year as it is a time to say thanks to what has been and embrace what is to be.
This i think, looking at our traditions in the "Juletid" (christmas time) is still very intact - but the actions are today supposed to be pointing toward the christ - from the middle east - and is very very vague from my experience here in norway.... and most people have a difficult time to relate christ with "jul" apart from the idea that it was the guys birthday - which is debunked from a historical perspective, from what i know.

hehe sorry for that side turn on the thread - please remove the post if not relevant hehe
just feel very strong about our "jule" (christmas) traditions.

anyway, wish you all the best "God Jul & godt nytt år" (merry christmas and a happy new year)

f

Wow Frank! God Jul to you too! I am/shall be celebrating with some ol! (I know the o has a special character but I can't insert it on this forum!)

oh yes øl, having one right now

and wayne, exactly as i would have put it if i was articulate enough

f

you mean to say i never done any typos! Jeez, that's a first for me!

Note: just to be clear, I, like you wayne love the study all religions - personally i follow life and nature as it speaks more direct than a scripture/text wether Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Buddhist, Taoist, and on and on.... as you said wayne, i too love to explore whatever may enlighten our being and personally i follow no set path but the one i walk.

f

hold on bro! did you wirte - ' i like you wayne love, the study all religions' or 'i, like you wayne, love the study all religions'? Cause they may mean different things!

haha, noticed that too.... so i changed it to i, like you wayne...


f

Frank are you familiar with
the slopes of Tvillingene
seven peaks?

the seven peaks i have know of yes, slops of tvillingene not sure