Takata's teaching methods

Frank wrote:

Milarepa wrote:

Frank wrote:
Well, I feel you can't deny that there were still others in Japan practising Reiki, even when Takata advertised she was the only one left.

There were? Who?

At least Chie Hayashi, to keep this part of the conversation simple
(And I can imagine all the other people Hayashi trained..)

Chie was practicing Reiki at the time Takata was meant to have said she was the only one? For Takata to have lied at all, it needs to be took in context. Specially the when she said it. Whether there were 50 or 1000 people in Japan practicing, or simply initiated, can have no bearing on what might have been a genuine mistake via Hayashi's teachings, or more truth than people realize.

Milarepa wrote:Why not? If it is a new creation, it is new. Something claimed without any supporting evidence that can be critically looked at, is highly suspect. Particularly when it is the basis of people having the marketable value of sharing something unique, in an international way. It's how international business works. These are businesses.

Frank wrote:
Yet, the Gakkai doesn't really promote itself. If they exist (which I assume they do), they are not trying to sell anything to a wide audience and it doesn't seem to be a business to them.

This isn't personal to you Frank, but assuming something exists solely because others say so, particularly one person, means little.

One person in particular instantly elevated themselves to international recoqnition, and secured an international consumer base, once that person revealed the Gakkai concept. IT is this person who benefited from the promotion they done. Not that it was any big effort. Us westerners were chomping at the bit to leave anything Takata related, based on erroneous 'facts' and assumptions. Clamoring for anything oriental. Based on our own insecurities.

Frank wrote:
And I can very well imagine reasons for such a society to be quite closed.

So can i. Like it died out. Anyhow, the topic is about Takata. .

Frank wrote:
I find Usui's memorial stone and the document from or about Fumio Ogawa quite convincing (all referring to the Gakkai).

As do i, but those are pieces of evidence from a long time ago. Not recent by any means. It hardly shows the Gakkai continued to flourish.

Frank wrote:
It is difficult to find hard evidence.
Also because I know there are some people with inside information who are not very open about it. This also complicates my explanation of why I believe some things to be true.

Heard it all before bro. Nothing against you, your value here. These single source contacts are really iffy. It's ok and cool for everyone to dissect what Takata says. Yet these groups will jealously guard their own information, keeping it secret. Just so no-one can do to them what they have been doing to Takata. It's fine though, not an issue.

There is a book on Takata coming out this year, will (i anticipate) hold some surprises.

Warmest wishes

Wayne

Milarepa wrote:Whether there were 50 or 1000 people in Japan practicing, or simply initiated, can have no bearing on what might have been a genuine mistake via Hayashi's teachings, or more truth than people realize.

Then you just assume Takata was right and that she was the only one left?
You seem to be more willing to accept that Hayashi made a mistake than that Takata made a mistake.

It would make more sense to me that there were many other practising Reiki practitioners than there were none. It's just not logical to say there were no other practitioners.

Do you believe Takata was right and that she was the only one left?

Milarepa wrote:This isn't personal to you Frank, but assuming something exists solely because others say so, particularly one person, means little.

Perhaps I should rephrase a little.

There are a couple of sources that mention the Usui Reiki Ryōhō Gakkai (memorial stone, article by Mitsui, Ogawa's manual, Hiroshi Doi). I think it is safe to say this society -at least once- existed.
There is no hard evidence that they still exist and what they do exactly. Yet, I don't see a reason for believing they ceased to exist.


I have no interest in speaking ill of Takata or saying she's a liar.
I have great respect for who she was and what she established.
Still, I believe there are differences in what Usui-sensei, Hayashi and Takata taught.

*Gasshō*

Frank wrote:

Milarepa wrote:Whether there were 50 or 1000 people in Japan practicing, or simply initiated, can have no bearing on what might have been a genuine mistake via Hayashi's teachings, or more truth than people realize.

Then you just assume Takata was right and that she was the only one left?
You seem to be more willing to accept that Hayashi made a mistake than that Takata made a mistake.

It's important for people not to take as gospel one thing, while ignoring another. Like did Takata actually say and mean the above, yet ignoring she always said she taught as Hayashi taught her. What she actually said, what she didn't say, what time in history she was refering to, all these things help come to a clearer view.

Frank wrote:
It would make more sense to me that there were many other practising Reiki practitioners than there were none. It's just not logical to say there were no other practitioners.

Logical to who? Finding the source of that information might be useful and understanding why it was said.

Frank wrote:
Do you believe Takata was right and that she was the only one left?

Being initiated into Reiki is different to practicing Reiki. And that is different to being part of a style and group also. It depends what was said, and what was meant. And where that info came from. These things help form a clearer view.

There are many people, who think they are experts, that are promoting lies about Takata.

warmest wishes

Wayne

Milarepa wrote:There are many people, who think they are experts, that are promoting lies about Takata.

And the irony is that Takata's granddaughter, Phyllis Furumoto (who is alive and well, and overcame breast cancer with Reiki), is left out of the equation.

Hi Wayne, Frank

Frank wrote:
At least Chie Hayashi, to keep this part of the conversation simple
(And I can imagine all the other people Hayashi trained..)

We do know that Chie Hayashi was definitely still around in the 1950's - if for no other reason than the fact that Takata-sensei spoke of visiting her in Japan in the early fifties.
Though it is unclear as to when exactly Chie Hayashi retired from teaching.

Frank wrote:
Well, I feel you can't deny that there were still others in Japan practising Reiki, even when Takata advertised she was the only one left.

Milarepa wrote:
Chie was practicing Reiki at the time Takata was meant to have said she was the only one?

Certainly, later, during the 1970's, Takata-sensei on several occasions shared her belief that she was then the only surviving Teacher of Reiki
(though not the only surviving practitioner of Reiki).

It is of course quite possible that, during that time in the 70's, there were indeed many people practicising Reiki Ryoho (in some form or other) in Japan.
That is, beyond the Japanese people taught by Takata-sensei her self when she visited japan in 1955.

I really looking forwart to that book about Mrs Takata, mentiond above!

To be plain, i never understood all those rumours about her "wrong" teachings...

When i heart the Reiki Story the very first time from my teacher it was absolutely clear for me, that it is an universal Myth and follows universal patterns and contains spiritual teachings rather than "historical information, true in every bit and bite".

When the "japanese material" was revealed, truly, i found nothing new. It was all contained in the teachings of my teacher, only i did not knew the japanese names for it, like byosen and so on ...

But i was allways thinking, that Reiki is probably to "simple" for most western People who prefare a more complicated structure and a lot of detailed Informations like Chakras and Crystals and discussions about different Buddhas and Rituals and Penalties and so on .. and therefore get lost in distraction. And think that Takata have "cut the spiritual side of Reiki away" and that the "spiritual side" means daily chanting of the principles and poems of an Emperor in japanese is that spiritual side... Sometimes i really dont know, shall i laugh or shed tears?

blessings

susanne