A thought on initiations..

chi_solas wrote:

Milarepa wrote:the first post was about:

milarepa wrote:
Would you initiate someone who couldn't understand the things as most of the rest of us could? Would you initiate someone who was clearly sub-intelligent, thereby making it next to impossible to convey what the initiations entail, what they might do, what is & isn't acceptable in Reiki practice, how they might change their life. Possible healing crisis, etc, etc, etc.

quite a bit different from someone, anyone, being able to understand things. before the topic progresses in this direction further, it was never once said mentally impaired folks shouldn't be taught Reiki, or even experience Reiki. the term is to general. my opinion is in the first post,

point understood.
it would be helpful if you could
create a scenerio of the kind of
person you have in mind.

i created it the very first post, lol. perhaps it woudl help if you would read the topic? and see what i have, and havn't said.

milarepa wrote:]
I was thinking yesterday.. (surprised me that, hehe!)

It's about initiations.

Would you initiate someone who couldn't understand the things as most of the rest of us could? Would you initiate someone who was clearly sub-intelligent, thereby making it next to impossible to convey what the initiations entail, what they might do, what is & isn't acceptable in Reiki practice, how they might change their life. Possible healing crisis, etc, etc, etc.

If you'd decline to initiate another person because of any, or all of the above, how come it's fine to forgo all those issues and attempt to initiate animals?

Warmest wishes
Wayne

chi_solas wrote:
Sub-intelligence imo is mentally
challenged. Then there is brain dead.
That is different than sub-intelligence
There is a natural innate healing that
the Reiki System promotes.

if the post is read, i wasn't talking about a healing response. i was talking about whether folks would try to teach a human Reiki, when that human clearly couldn't understand what was being conveyed. and to relate that same understanding to an animal, whom prob won't even know , say, english fully. even a dog only responds up to 200 words.

chi_solas wrote:
To become
a Reiki practitioner you do need to
understand and comprehend the history,
rituals and symbols.

i've indicated this in earlier posts here today also. recap my post to resko re: principles & Reiki experience. even this at it's most basic, the be a Reiki practitioner carries certain responsibilities, both to oneself, and others.

the topic is about, well, was about, animals, humans was an example we can relate to mentally to compare. so, folks, should we teach Reiki to animals? can we teach Reiki to animals? is there any point in teaching Reiki to animals? does the animal know enough to make an informed decision? my dog will sit happily & like his butt all day. does he know the significance of Reiki teacher/student relationship?

warmest wishes
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:
the topic is about, well, was about, animals, humans was an example we can relate to mentally to compare. so, folks, should we teach Reiki to animals? can we teach Reiki to animals? is there any point in teaching Reiki to animals? does the animal know enough to make an informed decision? my dog will sit happily & like his butt all day. does he know the significance of Reiki teacher/student relationship? sure
why not.

Animals are good at intuitive, non-verbal
communication. Animal whisperers may be
able to give you insight to
.. can animals learn Reiki..
I take it you mean the Reiki system

I'm sure their are people who have trained
their pet animals to talk. It considered
amusing. I know that many folks do believe
that their pet has a higher level of under
standing than we give them credit for.

if we change reiki rituals, procedures, and steps since the next person is an animal, instead of a human being, or lets say mother earth, i m wondering whether this would be termed reiki or another healing ritual ?

Doing experiments is fine, and indeed necessary, but mixing up what we learn through experiments, with what had been passed on to us by our teachers, is something we need to think twice....


As teachers, there is a huge responsibility for us to categorically make it clear that what is the difference among the terms healing, spirituality and reiki..... After having doing some work in QT, i m of the view that interaction within a reiki session and that within a QT session, are different, although both are healing session...

Healing and spirituality are sub-sets of reiki, but the converse is not that true... And also that the domains intercept somewhere, overlap somewhere and go independently somewhere....

What has been generally said above, is mostly about healing taking place through reiki... But reiki is not just healing, it is transformation of personalities... I have witnessed the miracles of reiki in curing the autistic children, in making people quit smoking.... What we miss easily is that a reiki process is subtle and progressively more refined than general clinical alleviation of symptoms....

My kid brother is a down's syndrome... In my early days of reiki experiences, i tried sessions with him... And i felt that his mind becomes alaramingly calm and frightening at peace, that he seems to be losing the day to day motor skills like going toilet, taking food, changing clothes, etc. So i can say that we may give a second thought to general belief that reiki is intelligent... Nah, it is the innate divinity and spirituality of the receipient that dictates what outcome(s) a reiki session will fetch. On these notes, i m bit reluctant to use reiki for uses other than prescribed by founders... Being in a reiki session is, like i talked to Buck, is a continuous internal gassho, where we are in an interaction with much bigger universe than we can possibly fathom or comprehend

Take care

Salman

Hi Folks,

I have come to wonder if Reiki itself decides the outcome of the one to be initiated. We hear about many masters(poor choice of words) attuning many others, and everybody has a different experience even if the attunement processes are identical. This makes me think that the spiritual aspect of Reiki decides who gets what, based on anything from past lives to ones ability to adapt to, or absorb, the changes that spirit deems as the correct ones for the individual. I guess it wouold explain and simplify the whole situation in regard to why attunements vary and why the experiences vary so much for the one being initiated.

Someone mentioned something about animals, and us not giving animals enough credit for their connection to their surroundings, or spirit for that matter.

Animals do not have to be reminded of the natural order of things....they live the natural order of things....they cannot do other wise.

Our animal friends may also not be aware of, or understand their own mortality..How would life differ for us if we were not aware of the ticking clock?

Alot of us talk spiritual, but we walk mortal.The animals with little sense of self, may be the only ones of this planet that truly live as they were intended to.

We always say that animals rely on instinct more than thought...What if instinct is a higher form of thought, that, like so many other things, we do not fully understand?

Jim

Reikijim it sounds like you are
in tune with the animal kingdom.

We do refer to animal's instinct
and we refer to our instinct as
intuition.

I know when my dogs wanted to get my
attention they would draw my attention
by making a talking sound over a bark
& then when they got my attention they
would make direct eye contact holding
intense eye contact like a powerful
energy transmitter in place of words.

Interesting thread, to take it back to it original questioning, should we initiate those we deem, mentality incapable of absorbing the whole process, have to say never really thought about it before, and my first instinct was no, but as I write this, I think my opinion could change, because a soul is challenged, has physical and mental limitations within this lifetime should that block their path of spiritual learning, or are they, beings that are truly learning this time round, their spirit the same only shrouded by the most purposeful quest towards compassion and knowledge, the attunement is spirit to spirit, regardless of intellectual compression, the teachings range from basic to fairly intellectual, when teaching do we not let spirit guide us anyway, not one of my classes is ever been the same.

And animals attuned to Reiki…..would like to meet onexx

Dharma wrote: Interesting thread, to take it back to it original questioning, should we initiate those we deem, mentality incapable of absorbing the whole process,

From where I sit: If we are talking about a human being, I would say no. We all exist in our own level of developement. Growth can be achieved in many ways, and I sometimes wonder if an individual needs to be at a certain level before reiki makes alot of sense. I do believe that Reiki will transform into many different understandings and practices, yet the original intentions of the founder seems to still be talked about and i for one keep my eye on his intentions for the system he created.

If we are talking about animals...well mostly I don`t see the point, as I believe they are perfect the way they are born....and besides how do we know that they want to be attuned....we act selfishly in the name of others far too often

Dharma wrote:
have to say never really thought about it before, and my first instinct was no, but as I write this, I think my opinion could change, because a soul is challenged, has physical and mental limitations within this lifetime should that block their path of spiritual learning, or are they, beings that are truly learning this time round, their spirit the same only shrouded by the most purposeful quest towards compassion and knowledge, the attunement is spirit to spirit, regardless of intellectual compression, the teachings range from basic to fairly intellectual, when teaching do we not let spirit guide us anyway, not one of my classes is ever been the same.

And animals attuned to Reiki…..would like to meet onexx

I`ve met a cat that a fellow owned....Parker was attuned to level 2 Usui/Tibetan. I never knew him before his attunement, so I cannot say how he was prior. I liked him alot, but he did nothing special.

I think good judgement and input from spirit should both be considered when deciding to share Reiki with someone on a permanent basis. Instincts should not be ignored and it`s important how you feel about them when you talk to them about it. Attunements can bring on great change....make sure the student has the support system in place financially and emotionally to survive the changes that may come. I would stay away from anyone who you sense instinctively has a hidden agenda or a purpose other than self growth.... the desire is supposed to come from the search for enlightenmentand peace/love/compassion, not paying your bills, creating a social position for yourself or your need to heal others..... your personal need to heal others...remember...is still your need...not necessarily theirs....pain and suffering teaches, regardless of how it reminds us of our mortality when we witness another who suffers. Some feel it`s their life purpose, it`s my life purpose, but as yet I`m not ready and i will not explain why. But for some i believe reiki is a convienent way out of having to compete in mainstream life ....or a device for making money....as we see all the time in North America...makes me want to vomit when I consider the values of the man who created the original system of Usui reiki.

Reiki initiations are a big deal to some....me for example...others will attune anyone or anything...I do not understand their reasoning and i would suppose they would not see mine...That`s ok...we all see different things in reiki

ah, thats a great read Jim, much thanks for the share....

I see we are discussing many very important things here, and i can't help but to poke my little nose here...

There are many approaches to reiki (not talking about styles here), we value each approach since it reflects a human opinion, definitely as unique and inert as a relation between a man and god could be

The questions being discussed here are very interesting, and while discussing them each of us might feel reconfirming/revisiting our own general perception about reiki as a system, and not merely as a healing modality...taking start, lets ask a preliminary question.... is reiki for everyone?

This stirs some uncomfortable cues in many folks since by nature 'what sort of question is this?' reiki is a blessing, a natural endowment, an infallible right of each human being...it is like air, like food, like water... No one could decide for other whether these blessings can be 'given' to him or not.... Correct! But still i dare to ask....is reiki for everyone?

Other side of coin, reiki ability is something that is, and has to be, transferred from 'hands to hands' via initiations... An element of personal choice/judgement/preference has already been present in the system...a master has a right to initiate somebody who has requested it, or to refuse without giving reasons... There is nothing in reiki code of ethics which could reprimand a master who has refused to initiate somebody.... Why master given such choice? Why master 'entrusted' with a right of decision? I see.... With rights, comes responsibility... A master has to 'see' 'something' before initiating somebody... Would u initiate anybody who is willing to pay for it?

If master's choice is an ego thing, sensei Usui has perhaps been reported wrong in saying that we will give okuden to those students (and only to those students?) who show a moral character (and bear other tests) ?

To my opinion, reiki initiations are not merely a conferring of an ability, rather are more in the nature of an unwritten, unspoken covenant betwen the teacher and student... A kramic bond, some would say..... A person before initiations cannot be said to be the very same person after the initiations....it is a life changing event, a ensleevement into a great spiritual attire... A person who is mentally challenged might be initiated technically without failure, but do we have an assurance that reiki serves for his improvement in a mechanism it would do otherwise? Do such person has a capability to understand how he can make best use of reiki ? Can we teach precepts to such a person? Can he self-treat, let alone the possibilites of treating others? Such questions are paramount in making an attempt to answer the issues revisited by Dharma in previous post...


Initiating pets and animals to reiki ? Well, tbh, i feel quite uneasy in imagining that i will be initiating my pet whom i can't communicate what reiki is? Over time, i m more becoming convinced that we must not try to do magic with reiki by putting it to uses other than prescribed by founder.... It might be more merit in putting our time to explore within reiki in the way Usui had envisioned, or if we insist to keep putting reiki to every possible use our fertile imagination suggests, then at least we must clear our heads that we are going away from 'my system' as Usui sensei called it.

Ah, i m feeling i m getting a little emotional, but you know, the topic is so much interesting

Take care

Salman

Hi Salman,

Initiating people to level one, for most I would think, to be a good idea. Self healing is always a good idea, and i do feel that everyone should have to opportunity to do so.
It may not be fair for me to feel this way but...I guess I feel that not everyone needs to be at the master level. I`m not even sure that I need to, considering the changes in perception and abilities in reiki that i experienced after my level two initiations. I think one could spend a lifetime improving one`s self in level 2 without taking the nexy step. The symbols certainly do change things

I guess in my previous post I may have been a little too critical. Thats what I get for posting on an public forum before I`ve had my morning coffee.

Jim

I have had a ponder on this, and although each case would be different I think, many souls living with great restrictions would benefit from being attuned to Reiki, when I left school, before I came to my present work I trained and worked in theatrical arts and part of that work was to work in deprived communities, bringing healing and art based workshops, and as I moved further into this field I worked in a residential blind school, the residents and day visitors were not only blind, but many were disabled on vastly varying scales, as I think back about individual souls, I see clearly that their would have been many that would have experienced almost miraculous life enhancing experiences from being attuned to Reiki, not just from a physical point of view but an emotional one, many with deep physical and mental disabilities, where still deeply empathic beings, their was no dysfunction to this area, and lived with a great deal of emotional pain, about the world that surrounded them, and that worlds reaction to them, we as able bodied souls know how harsh the world can be, even those that are supposed to be in positions of caring and healing. I feel in my opinion that, and again each case in individual, but many souls living with great difficulties and disabilities, would greatly benefit from being attuned to Reiki.

I take it that we are referring to
learning the Reiki system over Reiki
energy.

Every living person, animal, plant etc;
has the ability to benefit from the
Universal Life's Energy that is used
during a Reiki session/attunment.People
animals,plants, do not need to be attuned
to the Reiki System to use ULFE.

I thought we were talking about attuning animals and people with severe disabilities to reiki, the benefits of being able to self heal on a daily basis as apposed to receiving from othersx

hiya folks, sorry i'm so busy personally atm, havn't time to read thoroughly all the points, some very important ones i noted!

Bridget is spot on (thankyou for keeping it on topic, ). Initiations, as in Reiki, is not just the attunement, but also the training, the course content.

There's good reasons we provide course training, alongside what is really a simple performing attunement. . Even though an attunement itself. it's a major deal for a human to experience such a spiritual thing, a huge responsibility. Me myself, i feel this has to be conveyed. Only my opinion, others are equally valid.

warmest wishes
Wayne

duh, off course we were....my thoughts are still the same, I think many would find simple training easy enough to follow, imo, it should be only those that can follow even in the simples terms, that should be initiated.blessingsx

hi Dharma and Jim

Jim wrote:
Initiating people to level one, for most I would think, to be a good idea. Self healing is always a good idea, and i do feel that everyone should have to opportunity to do so.

well, that is true without any doubt, but when i see that people just try to get inititions to put a tag they are reiki healers, but they dont seriously intend to apply reiki one skills to themselves and to others, this factor makes me think whether they had been in any need to be initiated first of all ?

it is their free will, of course, whether they opt to choose reiki for them in day to day application, but of course, it is free will of teachers also, to make judgement whether an incoming potential reiki attunee may be entertained or not

Jim wrote:
It may not be fair for me to feel this way but...I guess I feel that not everyone needs to be at the master level.

yes, for sure, mastership is not for everyone so as to 'test' it and feeling free to putting it to garbage bin, since not found very interesting

Jim wrote:
............ considering the changes in perception and abilities in reiki that i experienced after my level two initiations. I think one could spend a lifetime improving one`s self in level 2 without taking the nexy step. The symbols certainly do change things

thats a lovely sentiment, although you might not make it a rule for yourself bro

Dharma wrote:

..........and although each case would be different I think, many souls living with great restrictions would benefit from being attuned to Reiki

well, of course, it all depends on a particular case we are considering, and plus the nature of limitation/disability, etc. i share one personal experience Dharma... my kid brother is a Down's syndrome... when i got reiki, i natrually tried to improve his conditions by reiki, and naturally i had a lot of compassion and concern for him... over two months or so of the daily reiki sessions with him, we noticed that he has been 'calmed' rather made alarmingly inactive as a result... his mental alertness became very passive too... and all this was not going towards any improvement signs...

then we discussed this factor with his Psychiatrist, and he advised that we may stop reiki sessions for a while... while, i m not generalizing this experience, but i feel that it may be considered that reiki may sometimes act differently for metnally challanged people

Dharma wrote:
............ I worked in a residential blind school, the residents and day visitors were not only blind, but many were disabled on vastly varying scales, as I think back about individual souls, I see clearly that their would have been many that would have experienced almost miraculous life enhancing experiences from being attuned to Reiki,

well, certainly we are not judge to decide something for someone, but as per our compassiona and love, we suggest for them what we feel best ! reiki has much theraputic potential, and if we subject reiki to unusual ailments, we might expect to get unsually impressive results too...

if i would have this situation, i would, however, like to attune the guardian/attendant of such buddies if that is a possible arrangement.

Dharma wrote:
not just from a physical point of view but an emotional one, many with deep physical and mental disabilities, where still deeply empathic beings, their was no dysfunction to this area, and lived with a great deal of emotional pain, about the world that surrounded them, and that worlds reaction to them, we as able bodied souls know how harsh the world can be, even those that are supposed to be in positions of caring and healing. I feel in my opinion that, and again each case in individual, but many souls living with great difficulties and disabilities, would greatly benefit from being attuned to Reiki.

Dharma, i might have said something that might be misunderstood... while talking about disabilities / limitations, i had in mind the mental disabilities specifically which would bar someone from using reiki, even if attuned...if a person has is mentally capable of understanding / applying reiki, then i think there might not be any physical disability that would make the reason for not attuning that buddy into reiki

however, about initiating animals to reiki, i reiterate the earlier points


take care

Salman

salman for sharing a personal
part of your life. It is through our
personal experiences that we gauge & learn
the benefits of our Reiki experiences.

Interesting conversation.

I see to streams of thought here.

1) That deep understanding of the history, the protocols, and the meaning behind Reiki is important for a student to exhibit, before we should consider initiating them.

2) That intuition can often guide and who are we to judge otherwise?

I'm obviously of the 2nd stream of thought in most cases. When dealing with human beings, who will most likely want to "use" the system on other human beings, then we most likely need to be a bit discerning. At least in how others (if you care what others think) might view us as a practitioner based on how and who we choose to teach.

As for animals, plants, and spiritual beings... who's to say that people who claim to have conversations with animals don't really have these deep conversations? Who's to say that intuition isn't our form of understanding this conversation on a metaphorical level if we don't have the ability to actually understand an animals linear time line conversation?

Personally, I prefer to follow my intuition. It hasn't lead me wrong yet.

And for Bridget. You had noted that you'd not heard of anyone initiating an animal? If you recall my mouse story, I did end up initiating it at the end.

hi Andy

Interesting insights.

Personally, i m of the view that communication with non-human beings is possible and does happen too... I have had an experience with an owl in my college days....

Even earth and rocks are living beings..... I have found it not meaningless that earth takes breath about 1.5 hours before the show of dawn....


Over time, i have experienced that when we try experimenting on some system with something 'beyond the scope' of the system, the results are often so interesting that we start flowing with them instead of reaping the benefits of the system within its pre-conceived domains.

While initiating animals or other things that are apparently non-living, it might be an interesting experience.... But it is certainly not anything we would call reiki ryoho, or would we?


Reiki is not an energy only, it is a system, and the moment i start doing something within the system that was not mentioned by founders and torch bearers of the system, i start getting a feeling that i m doing a disservice to my involvement with the system.

Just my views though

Take care

Salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:
Reiki is not an energy only, it is a system, and the moment i start doing something within the system that was not mentioned by founders and torch bearers of the system, i start getting a feeling that i m doing a disservice to my involvement with the system.

Just my views though

Take care

Salman

Is it a disservice though? If it is possible to do something, then is it a disservice to explore that?

I'm not so sure that it is.

Your right Andy you did write...

I’d like to add, that I attuned the mouse that day.

Thanks for the reminder.

yeah Andy

When i chart out my personal path in reiki, i find it more beneficial to explore within conventional areas of reiki, particularly towards the goal of improvement of mind, soul and body, as envisioned by founder....

Since we don't have unlimited time for reiki in this busy world, i mostly try to explore the conventional areas... However, the beauty of reiki is that it perfectly blends with spiritual progress of advanced folks... I know you have spent ages in your shamanic journey buddy, and most certainly your perspective and spiritual outlook would be different from general thought...

It is generally impossible to generalize anything within such matters, so you take things as 'my' personal approach only


Take care

Salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:yeah Andy

When i chart out my personal path in reiki, i find it more beneficial to explore within conventional areas of reiki, particularly towards the goal of improvement of mind, soul and body, as envisioned by founder....

Since we don't have unlimited time for reiki in this busy world, i mostly try to explore the conventional areas... However, the beauty of reiki is that it perfectly blends with spiritual progress of advanced folks... I know you have spent ages in your shamanic journey buddy, and most certainly your perspective and spiritual outlook would be different from general thought...

It is generally impossible to generalize anything within such matters, so you take things as 'my' personal approach only


Take care

Salman

By all means, we should always follow our heart in what we feel is necessary.