Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by **Lambs-Wool** Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:50 pm

Lambs-Wool: Global Moderator

Post n°26

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Lambs-Wool Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:50 pm

Milarepa wrote:
If we go deep enough, we naturally don't focus on anything time related, so that illusion falls away, upon resuming noraml consciousness it may seem we lost track of time, when in fact we became aware there is no time!

in the days, some 18 years back, when i was busy in concentration exercises through gazing, this would also happen to me that i would keep sitting gazing on black dot or candle flame for two hours or more in one sitting, and would similarly feel that time's been so flying, but the question of asleep never arose in my mind since my eyes did remain wide open during that spell...

however, this time, when i m trying to recap that experience into meditation with eyes closed, i naturally have to be bit skeptic whether i was asleep Smile

hence the question....

Milarepa wrote:

If you do fall asleep, upon re-awakening, you can simply resume practice if it';s possible. Most definitely don't let yourself judge yourself if you keep falling asleep, i say this cause you sai 'i'm quite afraid..'.

i can read into that Wayne... a beautiful advice and i count on this Smile

maybe you are saying this for the reason too that if i will keep my mind stuck in that question, then what i will be meditating upon ?

well, the term being afraid was not used in that sense though... i can well imagine that the feeling of any fear sometimes makes us blocked to go foraward in our meditation experience, and tbh, that was not the point Smile

i plan to sit meditation this weekend with once my sleep already taken in full as required, then only i will be in a position to judge whether it was sleep spell or mediative spell Smile

hope this will help

Milarepa wrote:

Here's some practible help form someone well known....

http://www.srichinmoy.org/spirituality/concentration_meditation_contemplation/meditation/am_i_meditating_well/question_5

thanks for the referrel... an interesting site to browse through... i will come up with more 'questions' once i do that...

so long then, take care Smile

salman

by **Milarepa** Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:24 am

Milarepa

Milarepa: Forum Founder

Post n°27

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Milarepa Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:24 am

Lambs-Wool wrote:

i can read into that Wayne... a beautiful advice and i count on this maybe you are saying this for the reason too that if i will keep my mind stuck in that question, then what i will be meditating upon ?

Meditation is focussing on one single thing. In the end that becomes no-thing. So if you mediated on that question, it's as spiritual as mediating on anything, or suing Koans for example, since even going to do a poo in the toilet is spiritual if we do it in a certain manner.

If you let yourself chastise yourself for falling asleep, it could give rise to apprehension and and feelings of 'not doing it right' (which is usually nonsense in meditation), it's these factors that could be distracting to your practice of single pointed focus, Smile

.

Take care
Wayne

by **Lambs-Wool** Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:43 pm

Lambs-Wool

Lambs-Wool: Global Moderator

Post n°28

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Lambs-Wool Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:43 pm

Milarepa wrote:
Meditation is focussing on one single thing. In the end that becomes no-thing.

yes, in the end, the focus of meditation becomes out of focus, and something more subtle, objectless, revealing comes into foucs, and so ad inifitum till the we feel we are the focus ourselves Smile

a very apt statement by the way! Smile

Milarepa wrote:

.......So if you mediated on that question, it's as spiritual as mediating on anything, or suing Koans for example, since even going to do a poo in the toilet is spiritual if we do it in a certain manner.

and what else lol!

??

well, i feel the moment of taking our meals is a very spiritual moment... and my babajee instructed me to say 'alhamdolillah' (GOD is great) on every single bite... and when i applied and experimented that upon, i discovered that the taste and pleasure in taking food is partly dependent on what we eat, and partly dependent on how we eat ! beat

Milarepa wrote:
If you let yourself chastise yourself for falling asleep, it could give rise to apprehension and and feelings of 'not doing it right' (which is usually nonsense in meditation), it's these factors that could be distracting to your practice of single pointed focus, .

Take care
Wayne

what i feel that such 'apprehensions' are part of a process, they come and they go their usual, own way... and as you said, the best is to let go their way without trying to act smartly over them...

what reiki especially hszsn does, is that it brings the moment of 'being' more closer, and i have tried hszsn before meditation for such effects, and found working!!! Smile

take care bro

salman

Last edited by Lambs-Wool on Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixing quotes)

by **Milarepa** Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:22 pm

Milarepa

Milarepa: Forum Founder

Post n°29

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Milarepa Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:22 pm

Lambs-Wool wrote:

well, i feel the moment of taking our meals is a very spiritual moment... and my babajee instructed me to say 'alhamdolillah' (GOD is great) on every single bite...

Yeah, my kids have been saying it from an early age. when they get excited they pronounce "humdalaa", hehe.

by **chi_solas** Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:53 am

chi_solas

chi_solas: Admin/Forum Promoter

Post n°30

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by chi_solas Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:53 am

Try taking one raisin from the bag
instead of a handful, chew on it and
make it last for as long as you can as
if its the last one in the bag. Compare
the experience of eating that one raisin
to stuffing a handful of rasins into your
mouth. Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ? - Page 2 78411

Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ? - Page 2 78411

Muti-tasking is another area in our lives
were speed is considered efficient. bounce

Meditation is just a matter of sitting quietly
and watching the breathe rise and fall a natural
way of being in the moment sunny

by hialeah Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:13 pm

hialeah

hialeah: Member

Post n°31

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by hialeah Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:13 pm

Off topic a bit but I notice when I chant while cooking (focusing on the process of cooking and repeating the mantra continuously) the food seems to taste better and I the leftovers appear to keep better (taste fresher) for a longer period of time. I see this as a form of active meditation similar to walking meditation. Also, I'm unaware of just how much time has passed.

by **chi_solas** Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:15 pm

chi_solas

chi_solas: Admin/Forum Promoter

Post n°32

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by chi_solas Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:15 pm

hialeah wrote:Off topic a bit but I notice when I chant while cooking (focusing on the process of cooking and repeating the mantra continuously) the food seems to taste better and I the leftovers appear to keep better (taste fresher) for a longer period of time. I see this as a form of active meditation similar to walking meditation. Also, I'm unaware of just how much time has passed.

I like it. I enjoy walking meditations
Cooking meditation I'll try it and see
if my chanting improves my cooking. cheers

by **Lambs-Wool** Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:43 pm

Lambs-Wool

Lambs-Wool: Global Moderator

Post n°33

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Lambs-Wool Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:43 pm

chi_solas wrote:

Muti-tasking is another area in our lives
were speed is considered efficient.

Meditation is just a matter of sitting quietly
and watching the breathe rise and fall a natural
way of being in the moment

beautiful ! Smile

meditation aims to control the movement of thoughts and cross-association/jumping of thoughts, and once the moment of being is attained, it defines its own definition of travelling, where we are still in the thought, but moving in our perception Smile

take care

salman

by **Lambs-Wool** Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:20 pm

Lambs-Wool

Lambs-Wool: Global Moderator

Post n°34

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Lambs-Wool Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:20 pm

hialeah wrote:Off topic a bit but I notice when I chant while cooking (focusing on the process of cooking and repeating the mantra continuously) the food seems to taste better and I the leftovers appear to keep better (taste fresher) for a longer period of time. I see this as a form of active meditation similar to walking meditation. Also, I'm unaware of just how much time has passed.

not at all off-topic Smile

infact highly included in the mainstream!

in continuation of what you said above (and very aptly said btw), i dare to add that we, in the modern life, have almost ignored the importance of earning food, making food, and taking food....

first of all : earning food, i.e., the means to earn our living and livelihood... if we earn by foul means, there is something that changes within the food we purchase from such money... the manifestation of such change is not active, but can be felt over a period of time.... some people say, that our genes mutate when we earn foul living and dishonest money.... but even if they dont, the effect are nevertheless equally catastrophic....

secondly : making food... it needs something very important to think over.... it is a routine observation that everybody has a highly personalized and specific cooking ability... if we give a same recipie to two different individuals, the food they would cook will not be the same... their cooking skills count, agreed, but there is something more to it... the personality (and correctly saying, the spirituality) of the person cooking the food is often reflcted in the food he/she cooks, and i can testify this from my personal experiences that the taste of a food cooked by a pious and spiritual person is quite different from food cooked otherwise... both in taste, and in effects....

thirdly : taking food.... if we closely analyse, our physical link with this material world for the intake we need, is through two ingredients viz. the air we breathe, and the food we take... so eating food, drinking water, galloping bites, and saying thanks to our God for bestowing us the food, and the ability to take it, is all together a set of great spiritual import...

and similarly, the act of breathing, is also of like importance...

these all gestures, sure constitute a very important figment of our meditative experiences Basketball

take care

salman

by Shakti ~ Rising Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:59 am

Shakti ~ Rising

Shakti ~ Rising: Member

Post n°35

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Shakti ~ Rising Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:59 am

i'm enjoying reading all the posts... Smile

by Shakti ~ Rising Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:10 am

Shakti ~ Rising

Shakti ~ Rising: Member

Post n°36

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Shakti ~ Rising Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:10 am

Lambs-Wool wrote:

Shakti ~ Rising wrote:just had a rather lovely meditative experience in my tai chi class...

we were doing 'djang djong'...I don't think I've said that right......its similar to the horse stance, and i usually find this practice to be like slow torture!!! I hate it and my legs kill!!...but today i went up into the light...the pain ceased even though my legs were still shaking( ahahah) the tears streamed with joy......I couldn't stop smiling...lovely!!

lovely share Sharon - thanks

just curious to know whether you are taught about controlling the movement of chi inside the body, in the said course ?

take care

no, we are not taught about controlling the movement of chi inside the body, .......I've only been going to this class for a couple of months, the rest of the group had been going for about 8 mths before me....I'm playing catch-up! ahaha

but it's interesting that you ask that, because when I was in this stance the day this occured I was actually playing about with the chi inside my body...It just felt very natural.. I ws taking the energy up my spine to the top of my head then back down the front of my body...to be honest I was doing it as a destraction to the discomfort I was feeling and I could also sense very very strongly, two balls of energy at the soles of my feet which gave me the impression of two balls of fire... It was a good day...unfortunately i haven't had a repeat performance!

salman

by Shakti ~ Rising Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:20 am

Shakti ~ Rising

Shakti ~ Rising: Member

Post n°37

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Shakti ~ Rising Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:20 am

Lambs-Wool wrote:a question for all ! please give your feedback

its been these days that when i meditate, especially if latenight before sleeping or early in the morning before sunrise, i feel i m asleep during meditation... time just flies, and i sorta start travelling like we do in dreams...

i m quite afraid that i actually slip into sleep during that while what you say, may be the possiblities ??

take care

salman

great insights come to us in dreams, so does it matter if we drift off while meditating?....isn't sleep and dreaming itself a type of meditation? don't many of us fall into very deep healing sleeps while receiving healing and taken to some beautiful dreamlike realm?

tis all good...enjoy your nap just don't snore if you have an anal meditation teacher watching you! ahahah

by **Milarepa** Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:18 pm

Milarepa

Milarepa: Forum Founder

Post n°38

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Milarepa Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:18 pm

anal meditation never tried that. Is that for anal retentive folks? Laughing

by Shakti ~ Rising Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:56 pm

Shakti ~ Rising

Shakti ~ Rising: Member

Post n°39

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Shakti ~ Rising Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:56 pm

0h boy!!! I really ought to read over howt himgs lookbefore Ipress send!! Laughing

by Dharma Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:59 pm

Dharma

Dharma: Member

Post n°40

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Dharma Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:59 pm

Lambs-Wool wrote:
a question for all ! please give your feedback

its been these days that when i meditate, especially if latenight before sleeping or early in the morning before sunrise, i feel i m asleep during meditation... time just flies, and i sorta start travelling like we do in dreams...

i m quite afraid that i actually slip into sleep during that while what you say, may be the possiblities ??

take care

salman

Technically we should not meditate and then fall asleep, for many that would be a big no no.....but to be honest i often fall asleep when i meditate im a busy working mum, all that peace quiet stillness....im asleep before i know it! their are those that say it leaves you open and be aware....but i always awake within a short time feeling amazing....also daydreaming is just another form of mediation.

Last edited by Milarepa on Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixing quote)

by **Lambs-Wool** Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:11 pm

Lambs-Wool

Lambs-Wool: Global Moderator

Post n°41

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Lambs-Wool Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:11 pm

Sharon wrote:

great insights come to us in dreams, so does it matter if we drift off while meditating?....isn't sleep and dreaming itself a type of meditation? don't many of us fall into very deep healing sleeps while receiving healing and taken to some beautiful dreamlike realm?

well, tbh, our ego says that "yes, it matters!" Smile

in meditation, we start while giving an active direction to our thought process, and we tend to be 'in-control' and by doing this we aint doing anything undesirable, since meditation (taken here in the species of a mental exerices), has the sole ojbective of controlling the jumping of our mind from thought to thought...

but as we go along, and our meditation deepens, we seem to be 'losing' the aforesaid 'control' at our will Smile

we keep on getting new revealations not necessarily directly linked with our primary object of meditation...and sometimes we DO know it too... yet we dont stop ourself, and we dont direct ouselves back to our prime object, since we know that the new thing being seen is one of the sequel Smile

in the dreams, however, the visions are never 'controlled' right from the beginning.. i would wonder if i hear someone saying that "yo, i m gonna see that (fill the blanks) in my dream tonight" Smile

about insights during dreams, they can be true or fake, just like the initial 'confusion period' of any meditation too Smile

we see things in dreams that come true very next morning or soemthing, we see the 'missing links' in dreams that solve some long pending mystery all of a sudden...thats true.. but if our objetive was to get those insights (many disciplines prescribe meditation for getting insight, and to do 'travelling' ), then what would we do ? go to sleep and wish that we get insight, or would sit in meditation actively in the hope of that insight coming to us any minute... you decide Smile

! (well, to me, if i m tired after day-long work, i will prefer the first approach Smile

TBH !

the analytical power is usually absent in dreams... we occasionally know that we are in dream when we are dreaming.... in meditation, the analytical power is supposed to be present in the beginning, but as the process deepens, we progressively start 'shifting control' of that anyalytical power from our active mind to our instinct or intuition...

the most striking difference, when we wake up from dream, we know that we were in dreams, but when we come back from a deep spell of meditation (emphasis is on 'deep'), we mostly dont feel that what we'been doing moments ago, rather we usually feel that some moments of life have been 'lost' or better to say, 'stolen' Smile

on the technical side, we often hear in the ancient texts that duirng sleep our astral body losses its envloping character of our physical body, and rather assumes a shape like we tow two cars, but in meditation, our astral body does not change its features, rather the more energies meditation keeps on transferring to it, the more it keeps on passing to our mental and physical faculties... this thing is totally absent in dreams Smile

another difference ( i'm not the direct observer) but i have learnt it in sayings and books, that when we sleep, the process of feeling thirst, hunger, etc. keeps going on... but in meditation, this is not the case...

lemme give an example Smile

suppose i take meals after every five hours.. and assume that i spend two hours out of them in sleep.. when i wake up, i will feel appetite again on the sixth or seventh hour.. but if the same two hours were spent in deep meditation, i would start feeling hunger from the seventh hour, and not before... (please laugh freely if this makes you to Smile

)

please openly comment if you feel something technically incorrect above.. (i feel, many things would be Smile

)

take care

salman

by Shakti ~ Rising Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:13 am

Shakti ~ Rising

Shakti ~ Rising: Member

Post n°42

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Shakti ~ Rising Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:13 am

I love your perspectives expressed here.... but I have to ask salman, have you never been able to control your dreams?I love my dream world......I haven't done this for a while, cos most of the time I just zonk out when my head hits the pillow!!.......but I often used to 'control' and guide my dreams and would continue my dream where it left off the previous night...but then I'm such a big day dreamer when awake.....i think i spend most of my time within the creative realms of my mind afro

by **Lambs-Wool** Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:13 pm

Lambs-Wool

Lambs-Wool: Global Moderator

Post n°43

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Lambs-Wool Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:13 pm

Sharon wrote:
ilove your perspectives expressed here.... but I have to ask salman, have you never been able to control your dreams?I love my dream world......I haven't done this for a while, cos most of the time I just zonk out when my head hits the pillow!!.......but I often used to 'control' and guide my dreams and would continue my dream where it left off the previous night...but then I'm such a big day dreamer when awake.....i think i spend most of my time within the creative realms of my mind

although, i often experiment a lot with things of this nature, but dont know why this escaped my list Smile

infact i didnt ever try to control dreams... what i have been doing often is to 'control' (rather mutate) the time-span of my sleep duration... for example, i would sleep for two hours, but make myself programmed to take it as a sleep of 6 hours... and sometimes it rather works Smile

to control dreams, we might have to use techniques of auto-suggestions and post-hypnotic suggestions maybe.. when the control element, and the element of WILL enters in seeing dreams, would then they remain in the category of dreams Smile

?

well, your post has given me a new guinea pig (and that is, myself again Smile

)

and, one last question Sharon.. how have been your expriences in clairoyance ? i'm interestd to know more Smile

!

take care

salman

by Shakti ~ Rising Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:06 am

Shakti ~ Rising

Shakti ~ Rising: Member

Post n°44

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Shakti ~ Rising Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:06 am

thats a great feat to make your body believe you have had slept for six hours when you have only slepft for 2.......could have done with that skill when my kids were babies and I suffered all the groans of sleep deprivation...!!

ever heard of the term lucid dreaming? I haven't studied this concept, but it seems to be similar to what I naturally do... I have encouraged my children to take control of their dreams when they have woken up with scarey ones.....they have gone back off and turned huge monsters into mice and have become heroes nd warriors in their dream worlds... its very empowering for children to do....

are we still 'dreaming' if our will is at play??....hmmm I would say yes, but I would also say we are using a different type of will.....its more of a spirital will than an ego will...don't know if this makes sense but this is how it feels to me....

happy experimenting!!

my experiences in clairvoyance vary....I was much more sensitive in that respect as a child...would 'know' things....one particular thing I was very good at was 'feeling' someone coming around a corner before I could physically see them....sometimes in school I would receive the answer to a question before it was even asked!! aahaha.......but this was a very internalised thing for me I was so shocked by it I wouldn't even say the answerout loud.... but I would say generally I'm prety crap clairvoyantly... sometimes I get the 'know' thing and sometimes I get great visuals .......but mostly not so hot!

if I was to give myself a lable it would be clairsentient....I DO feel a lot energy wise.. so don't ask me about your future any time soon! ahahaha and I still can't pick the winning lottery numbers, no matter how much dowsing I try!

by **chi_solas** Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:05 am

chi_solas

chi_solas: Admin/Forum Promoter

Post n°45

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by chi_solas Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:05 am

I believe you can control your dreams. affraid

According to Joseph Murphy Ph.D D.D.

Your subconscious controls all the vital
processes of your body and knows the answer to
all problems..... Prior to sleep, turn over a
specific request to your subconscious mind and
prove its miracle -working power to yourself

by Shakti ~ Rising Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:15 am

Shakti ~ Rising

Shakti ~ Rising: Member

Post n°46

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Shakti ~ Rising Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:15 am

remember Edgar Cayce http://www.edgarcayce.org/are/edgarcayce.aspx

by **chi_solas** Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:49 am

chi_solas

chi_solas: Admin/Forum Promoter

Post n°47

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by chi_solas Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:49 am

Edgar Cayce's books are so inspiring study

by Shakti ~ Rising Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:39 am

Shakti ~ Rising

Shakti ~ Rising: Member

Post n°48

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Shakti ~ Rising Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:39 am

I read one book years back....I should read more geek

by **Lambs-Wool** Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:29 am

Lambs-Wool

Lambs-Wool: Global Moderator

Post n°49

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Lambs-Wool Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:29 am

Sharon wrote:
my experiences in clairvoyance vary....I was much more sensitive in that respect as a child...would 'know' things....one particular thing I was very good at was 'feeling' someone coming around a corner before I could physically see them....sometimes in school I would receive the answer to a question before it was even asked!! aahaha.......but this was a very internalised thing for me I was so shocked by it I wouldn't even say the answerout loud.... but I would say generally I'm prety crap clairvoyantly... sometimes I get the 'know' thing and sometimes I get great visuals .......but mostly not so hot!

if I was to give myself a lable it would be clairsentient....I DO feel a lot energy wise.. so don't ask me about your future any time soon! ahahaha and I still can't pick the winning lottery numbers, no matter how much dowsing I try!

interesting share dear Sharon Smile

cliaroyance, we are often given impression, rests in the momnets of seeing, feeling, hearing, etc. things.. but when we analyze those moments, we come to know that clairoyance does not sits alone in those moments, rather rests more in interpreting those moments, mostly intuitively, and sometimes by logic and judgement...

premonitiions may be a suitable example to understand what said above... what i often have to say is that visions, feelings, sounds, etc. encountered by us during meditation, dreams and in moments of clairoyance, are never exactly that same as that they appear to be...

as we know we are connected not only with our ownself but with numberless other things in the universe through invisible links, we are constantly receiving information from such sources... that information is not in the form of 'information' it is in the form of 'incoming energy' (again vaguely saying)... computers on an internet or intranet network can be best given as examples... whatever travels in countless tunnels between servers and adjoined computers on a the world wide web, is nothing more but bits and bytes, and that again is a specific combination of 'zero' and 'one' (binary code)...

now if my computer is accessing a page while my mobile is accessing only a 'wap-enabled' page, this has little to do with incoming bits, rather is more to do with the 'interpreting device' i.e, microprcessors...

i rather have confused myself, but i want to say clairoyance is not always a thunderbolt or 'breaking news' sort of thing... much more, it rests in number of 'in-significant moments' which we often ignore by saying 'oh, not that hot' Smile

so i very much doubt that you are clairoyantly 'crap' dear Sharon Smile

take care

salman

by Shakti ~ Rising Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:02 pm

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Post n°50

Re: Stages of Meditation-where do you belong ?

by Shakti ~ Rising Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:02 pm

I understand your confusing relay of info ahhaah....no really I do. Very Happy

don't know if I've mentioned this on here or not.... a couple of weeks after I finished my sessions with the first healer I ever met, I started to get visions... not big important worldly event visions, but highly highly symbolic visions all about myself and my life.... I don't hear words or see written messages, information seems to filter through to me via symbolic language...and the beauty of it, was I understood..... I love you

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