Is Reiki forever?

In the notes attributed to Harue Kanemitsu, a level 2 student of Takata sensei, Takata sensei is said to have spoke in-course ' She said we would never lose our healing power, except if we were to try and teach REIKI to another.....'.

There's a trend among some Reiki folk not to train more than a couple of Master students. I used to think this is prob cause of 'quality control'. Perhaps there's another reason, maybe one that's been passed on innocently now, that even some practitioners aren't aware of?

What would happen if one lost their Reiki healing power might depend on just what exactly Reiki is. Assumptions that toe-the-line with our Reiki peers perhaps not being the wisest choice, neccessarily. Without further investigation.

In certain initiatory procedures, consciousness is passed on. From teacher to initiate. And some do believe that this is the way Reiki works, in part. The other part being the consciousness recieved enables us to interact with our own divinity.

Is this unlimited? Maybe.

Warmest wishes
Wayne

Update:

Robert Fueston was reading this topic, and wasn't sure about the information regarding the level 2 notes being from Harue Kanemitsu, a student of Takata. Robert has kindly managed to get in contact with Harue. Harue confirms that she was trained in level 1 by Takata in July 1979. This means that the 1975 notes that are atributed to her cannot be hers.

Interesting, I have meet some Teachers
who have decided that Reiki 1-2 is the
only level they are going to teach.

That's a rather odd statement. Reiki is innate in us, so what conditions would have to be present where we might "lose" it? I wonder if maybe there was some koan-like context we're missing here? LOL

'Reiki' might be inate in us, but so is, say, my 'personal' energy. This doesn't mean it's unlimited.

And like i've mentioned, some Reiki folks see the spiritual empowerment of Reiki as passing something (consciousness) onto the student. It's common in other non-Reiki systems from Japan, for example.

If we we're passing on something that was'nt as unlimited as some assume, and also didn't experience it ourselves as much as we should, would that mean we we're depleting what we had.

There's also another factor. I was gonna write it last night, but didn't feel comfortable. It was beleived by many in Japan after the turn of the 20th century that things like Reiki could actually deplete our own lifeforce! Fastforward to now. Off the top of my head there's quite a few Reiki practitioners who have had heart issues, and various other ailments. Course, they may have been destined to have that anyhow, but just how preventable medicine is the principles & passing on Reiki? I say passing on Reiki cause to my mind, it's quite a few teachers who've had/do have health problems. Some very, very well known ones.

Uncomfortable reading this prob, i'm uncomfortable writing it. I dunno if it's right, i hope not, but it's always useful to generate discussion. some things i've said here are fact, whether they tie in our not, jeepers, i dunno.

Warmest wishes
Wayne

Dana, I hear Reiki folks talking
about channelling and when I
mention innate and how we are born
with our own healing energies,Reiki
is free. It seems to be a concept
that they have not been taught.

hai milerapa,

reiki was, reiki is , reiki remain forever. it is answer for handing "Is Reiki forever"

In the notes attributed to Harue Kanemitsu, a level 2 student of Takata sensei, Takata sensei is said to have spoke in-course ' She said we would never lose our healing power, except if we were to try and teach REIKI to another.....'.

i strongly believe reiki never left anybody only we left reiki. now i explain how.

reiki was still flowing when we was not learned reiki same way as we have but problem we didn't understand and feel it and it power so reiki never left anybody in world.

There only way we stop feeling reiki that is when we star doubting on reiki or become more selfish means not worked for mankind that time it happened we lost our power of sense and believe once any body lost this two things they start to feel reiki not following but reiki is continue for all.....

If Takata sensei said it is only to give up selfishness and work for mankind and this is second thing which i mention above....

There's a trend among some Reiki folk not to train more than a couple of Master students. I used to think this is prob cause of 'quality control'. Perhaps there's another reason, maybe one that's been passed on innocently now, that even some practitioners aren't aware of?

i agree with you if it is for mankind but now days most of master working for money than how quality control... it is for money flow......

What would happen if one lost their Reiki healing power might depend on just what exactly Reiki is. Assumptions that toe-the-line with our Reiki peers perhaps not being the wisest choice, necessarily. Without further investigation.


just control the dis-believe and start practicing again and work for mankind everything normal very soon.



In certain initiatory procedures, consciousness is passed on. From teacher to initiate. And some do believe that this is the way Reiki works, in part. The other part being the consciousness received enables us to interact with our own divinity.

i agree it is possible but it is again temporary until our believed not developed so all thing depend on our own self.



Is this unlimited? Maybe.

it remains forever may be we sense it or not

thanks and love
vj

Wayne, my personal energy depends on my
daily routine & life style and how I
organize my life. I never feel that I'm
passing my energy on to a client as much
as I'm supporting a client to tap into
their innate being.

Most folks who find "Reiki" usually have
or had a physical, emotional,spiritual
dis-ease within. although "Reiki IMO
helps one to maintain a healthy mind & Body

chi_solas wrote:Wayne, my personal energy depends on my
daily routine & life style and how I
organize my life. I never feel that I'm
passing my energy on to a client as much
as I'm supporting a client to tap into
their innate being.

I wasn't suggesting Reiki is personal energy, .

I mentioned 'Consciousness' , solely cause it's known in certain forms of Japanese spirituality that some systems do pass this on. This is different from personal energy. And might not be unlimited. it's a question i'm floating. I've no opinion either way, but it's maybe good to look at all angles. there's reasons for many things in Reiki, we might not realise just.

Milarepa wrote:

chi_solas wrote:Wayne, my personal energy depends on my
daily routine & life style and how I
organize my life. I never feel that I'm
passing my energy on to a client as much
as I'm supporting a client to tap into
their innate being.

I wasn't suggesting Reiki is personal energy, .

I mentioned 'Consciousness' , solely cause it's known in certain forms of Japanese spirituality that some systems do pass this on. This is different from personal energy. And might not be unlimited. it's a question i'm floating. I've no opinion either way, but it's maybe good to look at all angles. there's reasons for many things in Reiki, we might not realise just.

I always look for simplicity

I do understand that other systems
do look deeper at what,why,when &
where

chi_solas wrote:

I always look for simplicity

That'd a pretty good practice!

chi_solas wrote:Most folks who find "Reiki" usually have
or had a physical, emotional,spiritual
dis-ease within.

Uh, most folks who don't "find 'reiki'" also usually have or had a physical, emotional, or spiritual dis-ease within?

Bruce

Bruce wrote:

chi_solas wrote:Most folks who find "Reiki" usually have
or had a physical, emotional,spiritual
dis-ease within.

Uh, most folks who don't "find 'reiki'" also usually have or had a physical, emotional, or spiritual dis-ease within?

Bruce

True, those of us who come to Reiki
usually find comfort within the Reiki
system and move on to become a Reiki
Practitioner.

chi_solas wrote:Dana, I hear Reiki folks talking
about channelling and when I
mention innate and how we are born
with our own healing energies,Reiki
is free. It seems to be a concept
that they have not been taught.

They have been told that Reiki is this "special power" they have been suddenly gifted with, instead of something that has been perhaps amplified or tweaked by the attunement. I tell my clients and students they are all perfectly capable of healing themselves. The degree to which we experience the healing is highly individual, though.

Milarepa wrote:
There's also another factor. I was gonna write it last night, but didn't feel comfortable. It was beleived by many in Japan after the turn of the 20th century that things like Reiki could actually deplete our own lifeforce! Fastforward to now. Off the top of my head there's quite a few Reiki practitioners who have had heart issues, and various other ailments. Course, they may have been destined to have that anyhow, but just how preventable medicine is the principles & passing on Reiki? I say passing on Reiki cause to my mind, it's quite a few teachers who've had/do have health problems. Some very, very well known ones.

Uncomfortable reading this prob, i'm uncomfortable writing it. I dunno if it's right, i hope not, but it's always useful to generate discussion. some things i've said here are fact, whether they tie in our not, jeepers, i dunno.

Warmest wishes
Wayne

My husband noted a few years ago that there are a number of spiritual teachers who have experienced stroke (and heart attacks), including Usui Sensei. So, if we are connected in this state of consciousness and are healing our bodies, why would we experience these major "insults" to the body? Some of it could be genetic predisposition, although there is evidence to suggest that you can override many aspects of your own genetic makeup (read Bruce Lipton's _The Biology of Belief_) and certainly you'd think that a highly evolved spiritual teacher might understand that. However, my husband, who works in health care, noted that our circulatory system requires a certain amount of arterial blood pressure in order to function properly. In other words, we need some stress in our lives. I wonder if people who meditate for long periods of time are existing so often in a super-relaxed state that it slows down arterial blood pressure to dangerous levels and causes either a bleed or perhaps even a blockage. Just a thought.

Dragonfly wrote:

chi_solas wrote:Dana, I hear Reiki folks talking
about channelling and when I
mention innate and how we are born
with our own healing energies,Reiki
is free. It seems to be a concept
that they have not been taught.

They have been told that Reiki is this "special power" they have been suddenly gifted with, instead of something that has been perhaps amplified or tweaked by the attunement. I tell my clients and students they are all perfectly capable of healing themselves. The degree to which we experience the healing is highly individual, though.

I remember a student rubbing her
hands before she started a share
session. I asked her what are you
doing. Her response was, that was
what I was taught...of course I was
surprized by that response.

Dragonfly wrote:

My husband noted a few years ago that there are a number of spiritual teachers who have experienced stroke (and heart attacks), including Usui Sensei. So, if we are connected in this state of consciousness and are healing our bodies, why would we experience these major "insults" to the body?

If the idea is correct, it'd could cause folks are experiencing Reiki sure, but an attunement is a different process. If the attunement was a transfering of consciousness, something is being passed. If this consciousness that was being passed we were only allotted a certian portion, it may have a negative effect on us.

Dragonfly wrote:
Some of it could be genetic predisposition, although there is evidence to suggest that you can override many aspects of your own genetic makeup (read Bruce Lipton's _The Biology of Belief_) and certainly you'd think that a highly evolved spiritual teacher might understand that.

Perhaps they do, or did. it might have been a reason why not many were initiated on the past. and why others were told not to initiate many.

Dragonfly wrote:
However, my husband, who works in health care, noted that our circulatory system requires a certain amount of arterial blood pressure in order to function properly. In other words, we need some stress in our lives. I wonder if people who meditate for long periods of time are existing so often in a super-relaxed state that it slows down arterial blood pressure to dangerous levels and causes either a bleed or perhaps even a blockage. Just a thought.

It's a good thought though! very interesting point Dana! Would the trend not be then that heavily spiritual folks tended to experience problems? It's prob impossible to do, but it'd be interesting to see if practitioners in general suffered ill health, or was there a trend in teachers who actually initiated many.

warmest wishes
Wayne

chi_solas wrote:
I remember a student rubbing her
hands before she started a share
session. I asked her what are you
doing. Her response was, that was
what I was taught...of course I was
surprized by that response.

I know when I learned Pranic Healing, they instruct you to "activate" your palm chakras by pressing your thumb lightly into the center of your palm. Sounds like rubbing your hands together would be a similar technique. That's not what we were taught in Reiki, but it could have been added by someone who was familiar with other forms of energy healing that work with activating the energy in the palms.

Dragonfly wrote:

chi_solas wrote:
I remember a student rubbing her
hands before she started a share
session. I asked her what are you
doing. Her response was, that was
what I was taught...of course I was
surprized by that response.

I know when I learned Pranic Healing, they instruct you to "activate" your palm chakras by pressing your thumb lightly into the center of your palm. Sounds like rubbing your hands together would be a similar technique. That's not what we were taught in Reiki, but it could have been added by someone who was familiar with other forms of energy healing that work with activating the energy in the palms.

I have also seen Reiki practitioners rubbing their hands together before starting a Reiki session. There may be several reasons, including:

As you said, they were just "taught to do that".

They are just warming their hands so they don't feel cold when first placed on the client.

They are stimulating the energy centres in the palms.

They almost unconsciously do it after having their hands in gassho (prayer position) as a way to signify they are now ready to start something.

They are doing an abbreviated form of kenyoku (dry bathing) said to have been taught by Usui sensei and Dr Hayashi and based on a Shinto purification ritual.

Some practitioners are also taught to "power up" their hands by drawing all the symbols they have been taught on each palm before starting a session. That can take a while for Karuna or Tera Mai Masters!

I never knew that. RLL works
I'm still a life long learner

There's no comment or ? to stupid.

I sometimes rub my hands together briefly - to warm them and also I think for preparation (like you said, transitioning from gassho to actually beginning a treatment.) I didn't really think about it one way or another!

Dana wrote:
However, my husband, who works in health care, noted that our circulatory system requires a certain amount of arterial blood pressure in order to function properly. In other words, we need some stress in our lives. I wonder if people who meditate for long periods of time are existing so often in a super-relaxed state that it slows down arterial blood pressure to dangerous levels and causes either a bleed or perhaps even a blockage. Just a thought.

although it is just a thought, but it is indeed an apt thought too

human beings are complex and have been programmed by nature to do a great diversity of actions and deeds... spirituality and physical vigour are also some of these aspects...


while nature intends us to keep a balance between various aspects of our being, taken as one whole, we often do opposite it...

in my view, the physical activity is as must as is the spiritual practices... some work out, brisk walk, running, swimming, cycling, whatever, we need to incorporate it in our daily lives even when we feel we are super spiritual


very low blood pressure is sometimes the cuase of cardiac arrest (in contrast with cardiac stroke)... and is often lethal.. we can equate it with examples like glucothermia.....


this was in response to your thought i m working the things out on the mainstream topic (is reiki forever)... lets see what i have to say then...



take care

salman

Thanks for your perspectives, Salman! I think as you said that balance is important. I am guessing that may be why in yoga there are asanas as well as meditative practices; you need both for good balance.

hiya bro

some initial thoguhts on the trail of these deep questions :

Milarepa wrote:In the notes attributed to Harue Kanemitsu, a level 2 student of Takata sensei, Takata sensei is said to have spoke in-course ' She said we would never lose our healing power, except if we were to try and teach REIKI to another.....'.

teaching reiki means teaching how to teach reiki (i.e. master level) or just teaching how to do reiki (levels one and two ) ? i feel she was alluding to master level by saying those words

and assuming that she meant master level, my thoughts follow as under :

Wayne wrote:

There's a trend among some Reiki folk not to train more than a couple of Master students. I used to think this is prob cause of 'quality control'. Perhaps there's another reason, maybe one that's been passed on innocently now, that even some practitioners aren't aware of?

What would happen if one lost their Reiki healing power might depend on just what exactly Reiki is.

we have tons of debates on what reiki is and have a great reservoir of opinions about that... our explanation of the sentiment that we lose reiki healing power, will run along a particular opinion we pick out from this big pool

what follows on this message is directly linked on how i personally comprehend about the nature of reiki

honestly speaking, the moment i separate reiki from connotations of being an 'energy', i feel less inertia to move along reiki is innate to us ? might be like radio waves all around us, settalite waves, cellular waves, etc are also innate to us, but we cannot 'access' them since we dont have the receiving equipment...


the word 'innate' needs some more light... one thing is that we have something already 'within' us, and need to lower some barrier in order to access that... the second thing is that NO, the innate item is not 'within' us, rather we have an inactivated ability within us that could use and access something that is outside us...


the third thing ( ) is that there is some outside ability or instruction code that we need to 'import' or 'embed' within us, in order to use and access something that was not possible without that... (the empahsis is that we are using something we had within us already, in contradistinction of the thing we are importing within us at the same time)...

Wayne wrote:
Assumptions that toe-the-line with our Reiki peers perhaps not being the wisest choice, neccessarily. Without further investigation.

may be a wise choice at least! for want of any 'wisest' choice

Wayne wrote:
In certain initiatory procedures, consciousness is passed on. From teacher to initiate. And some do believe that this is the way Reiki works, in part. The other part being the consciousness recieved enables us to interact with our own divinity.

Is this unlimited? Maybe.

this discussion goes to the core of the 'nature' of initiation... the initiation at third degree, as far as i can understand, does the following :

..1... transfers the mandate from Usui to the initate

..2... creates an "id" or "account" of that person in lineage ladder

..3... hands down a certain figment of Usui's Consciousness to the initiate

..4... establish a connection direct with the source (may it be Usui, or further to the wisdom he was gifted with, or else? ) without the intervention of intermediate lineage holders

..5... transfers figments of individual consciousness of intermediate lineage holders to the initiate (the synergy effect too)

..6... makes the consciousness of the initiate 'available ' to the lineage holder upwards too, right to Usui himself


these could be just theories or could be facts or both... since we often come across situations where facts feed theories, which in return feed other facts

you might smell a Jung version in these thoughts, but i cant help myself


having said all this, it is evdient that we owe a great responsibility to the reiki community and public at large when we are initiating somebody to masters level, since we are transferring and conferring an ipso facto mandate to that new member of the lineage... if he does things unworthy of the philosophy of the founder, he dilutes/disturbs the whole lineage...


a sidenote : in various initiatory disciplines, the permission of the founder of the school is required before 'taking in' or 'sworning in' ceremony for a new member...i had some discussion with some buddies that in witchcraft and wicca community, the initiation is a very very sacred step, and it needs 'active' permission of the founder, obtained through inviisible means...

in shamanic circles too (perhaps Andy will make a nose-correction) the initiation ceremony has a great deal of 'pre-approvals'... but in reiki, we dont require any approvals from peers (living or dead) or from the founder himself...

do we take for granted that permission is inbuilt when we were ourselves initiated with DKM ?


this was the food for my thought to say something more on the question Wayne floated.. maybe tomorrow !


take care

salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:

some initial thoguhts on the trail of these deep questions :

Milarepa wrote:In the notes attributed to Harue Kanemitsu, a level 2 student of Takata sensei, Takata sensei is said to have spoke in-course ' She said we would never lose our healing power, except if we were to try and teach REIKI to another.....'.

teaching reiki means teaching how to teach reiki (i.e. master level) or just teaching how to do reiki (levels one and two ) ? i feel she was alluding to master level by saying those words

What Harue reports is what Takata seems to have said to most level 1 students. I believe Takata was not warning Reiki teachers they would lose their ability if they taught students, but Takata was talking directly to the new students who hand only begun their Reiki training, warning them against impulsively trying to teach what was not theirs to teach


EZRI

EzriReiki wrote:

Lambs-Wool wrote:

some initial thoguhts on the trail of these deep questions :

Milarepa wrote:In the notes attributed to Harue Kanemitsu, a level 2 student of Takata sensei, Takata sensei is said to have spoke in-course ' She said we would never lose our healing power, except if we were to try and teach REIKI to another.....'.

teaching reiki means teaching how to teach reiki (i.e. master level) or just teaching how to do reiki (levels one and two ) ? i feel she was alluding to master level by saying those words

What Harue reports is what Takata seems to have said to most level 1 students. I believe Takata was not warning Reiki teachers they would lose their ability if they taught students, but Takata was talking directly to the new students who hand only begun their Reiki training, warning them against impulsively trying to teach what was not theirs to teach


EZRI

That's a good point!