How many of you believe in Higher Self?

thehungrycaterpillar wrote:

Hey Wayne, aren't you a J.K fan???

J.K ?

Milarepa wrote:

thehungrycaterpillar wrote:

Hey Wayne, aren't you a J.K fan???

J.K ?

J. Krishnamurthi ?
I have seen you whip out JK's stuff here & there...

thehungrycaterpillar wrote:

Milarepa wrote:

thehungrycaterpillar wrote:

Hey Wayne, aren't you a J.K fan???

J.K ?

J. Krishnamurthi ?
I have seen you whip out JK's stuff here & there...

Krishnaurti didn't believe in the existence of a 'higher self'. Krishmurti said that the 'higher self' was an idea, not a fact. Also, the Buddha, Siddhartha Guatama also was of this opinion. The Buddha deined the existence of anything beyond the 5 skandhas, that is, what we can call the 'everyday self'.

Krishnamutri:

We need a fresh mind, obviously; we need a mind that can look at things anew, without awakening the whole power of memory. And it is only possible if you can look at yourself – the self being not the higher self or the lower self, but the ordinary self; this division as the High with a capital H, an idea, not a fact. If you can see the motives, all the movements – conscious as well as unconscious – of every desire, of every thought, of every feeling, if you are totally aware of all that without any choice, if you can just observe, neither condemning nor comparing, if you can see this in operation, then out of that comes a fresh mind, a mind that is spontaneous. And it is only such a mind which has emptied itself of all memory, that can function, if necessary, with freedom; it is only such a mind that can meditate. And that is real mutation and nothing else.

(J. Krishnamurti, Rajghat 2nd public talk 1st December 1963.)

Bold script is mine.

H.P. Balvatsky states:

The moment one lets it [the concept of unity] go (and it is most easy to do so when engaged in any of the many intricate aspects of the Esoteric Philosophy) the idea of SEPARATION supervenes, and the study loses its value

when we 'pander' to the idea of a higher self, we're actually continuing to engage in seperation, and are hampering our own efforts on the spiritual path, imo. The ego can be very clever, and i'm sure reading this post, the ego is already telling many not to accept it, .

Interesting stuff though.

take care
Wayne

Oww..ow...oww..


Brain Cramp!!

....................
...............
,........,.....




Really cool topic!! Love it, just can't get it!!....you know the depth of it, everything is still in words and written concepts,
I need a Tolle-fied version....

I think it is entirely possible to believe in a Higher Self without it being separation. Although that is most often the end result of such a belief.

I suppose it all just matters how you approach the subject in your own consciousness.

The Buddha deined the existence of anything beyond the 5 skandhas, that is, what we can call the 'everyday self'.

Dude, did you just say skandhas???
what are you doing reading skandas??
wait, which skandhas are you talking about?

thehungrycaterpillar wrote:

The Buddha deined the existence of anything beyond the 5 skandhas, that is, what we can call the 'everyday self'.

Dude, did you just say skandhas???
what are you doing reading skandas??
wait, which skandhas are you talking about?

What's a Skandha?

Thaak wrote:I think it is entirely possible to believe in a Higher Self without it being separation. Although that is most often the end result of such a belief.

I suppose it all just matters how you approach the subject in your own consciousness.

Hmmm....
so it is a belief then?....you believe or you don't.
Does that mean it EXISTS or not? so what is the universal truth?

thehungrycaterpillar wrote:

The Buddha deined the existence of anything beyond the 5 skandhas, that is, what we can call the 'everyday self'.

Dude, did you just say skandhas???
what are you doing reading skandas??
wait, which skandhas are you talking about?

they're 5 aspects of a human, which make up the physical expereince, this earthly expereince.

thehungrycaterpillar wrote:


Dude, did you just say skandhas???
what are you doing reading skandas??
wait, which skandhas are you talking about?

OK, that just cracked me up!!

But seriously now, here is a good article on the skandhas:

http://www.dzogchen.org/teachings/talks/dtalk-95may22.html

Dragonfly wrote:

thehungrycaterpillar wrote:


Dude, did you just say skandhas???
what are you doing reading skandas??
wait, which skandhas are you talking about?

OK, that just cracked me up!!

I need to look up exactly what I was trying to say!
The word 'skandha' is also in a south indian language in literatures and was shocking to hear coming from an English dude!

thehungrycaterpillar wrote:... and was shocking to hear coming from an English dude!

I'm Irish, hehe.

thehungrycaterpillar wrote:

Thaak wrote:I think it is entirely possible to believe in a Higher Self without it being separation. Although that is most often the end result of such a belief.

I suppose it all just matters how you approach the subject in your own consciousness.

Hmmm....
so it is a belief then?....you believe or you don't.
Does that mean it EXISTS or not? so what is the universal truth?

Best answer might be..

If you believe in something, it exists. For you. .

Take care
Wayne

thehungrycaterpillar wrote: The word 'skandha' is also in a south indian language in literatures and was shocking to hear coming from an English dude!

I'm familiar with the skandhas from Buddhist philosophy and practices, as well as from yogic practices. I'm an American.

Best answer might be..

If you believe in something, it exists. For you. .

Take care
Wayne

so, the answer is it is not a universal truth that it exists,
it only exists if you believe in it. then it is a personal belief!
and NOT a route everybody takes or needs to take during spiritual evolvement?

(Oh, this is a gold mine for me... )


Thanks for the cool info and quotes Wayne , in the previous post!! Neat!!

I'm familiar with the skandhas from Buddhist philosophy and practices, as well as from yogic practices. I'm an American.

Now, I am eager to find out why they used that word in the literatures and what it means and where it originated...

thehungrycaterpillar wrote:

Best answer might be..

If you believe in something, it exists. For you. .

Take care
Wayne

so, the answer is it is not a universal truth that it exists,
it only exists if you believe in it. then it is a personal belief!
and NOT a route everybody takes or needs to take during spiritual evolvement?

(Oh, this is a gold mine for me... )


Thanks for the cool info and quotes Wayne , in the previous post!! Neat!!

Quantum physics indicates that we, individually can shape our own reality. Folks like Gregg Braden (i think he's cool), say that collectively, whjat humanity thinks also shapes our collective reality. so, there's potentially quite powerful stuff in what one believes. There's lots of mystic, and occult stufff on it. 'Occult' being used in it's true sense of the word here.

Anyhow, to illustrate this better, you might wanna check out James Twyman's spoonbending course, on DailyOm. The spoodbending is only a party trick really, but it illustrates, and actually shows, how we do shape our reality. Gimme a PM if you're thinking of going on the course before you sign up, so i can tell you something else. .

Take care
Wayne

Oh gosh -- so much to respond to here and so little time...

I'll just go back to the original question and hope for a chance to come back and consider some of the responses in here more.

I'm not sure that "Higher self" is exactly the same thing but I do believe in a core, eternal self that is individual and yet much more connected to everyone and everything than the ego self.

I had one powerful experience of that spontaneously years ago, just sitting alone on a river bank at night. I became aware that everything was connected and everything was perfect. I still knew myself as an individual but, with all the extraneous ego stuff that serves to isolate us stripped away, I also knew myself as part of the whole, like a drop of water in the ocean. The experience lasted quite a long time. Since, I've had brief glimpses of the same.

I'm not sure if that's the same thing as a higher self, but it seems to be what I associate it with. The wise, eternal core. I believe that we can always go to that self for answers.

Another experience I've had of the core self is in meeting the spirits of people who'd recently passed. In the case of my father, I experienced his essence, which was pure -- as if nothing in life had ever damaged it. It felt like an enormous privilege to have that experience of him. I've had the same experience of other people as well and that's led me to my belief that we each have a perfect and eternal core self that is never injured by any terrible thing that happens in life.

Other qualities I've felt in these spirits include a "questing" kind of feel and a lack of fear.

I've got lots more to say but I guess that'll do for now.

Back again: It occurs to me that the higher self would have to be a level up from the core self. If the core self is the self that's learning, the higher self would have to be the one negotiating about lessons, hmmm.

Quantum physics indicates that we, individually can shape our own reality. Folks like Gregg Braden (i think he's cool), say that collectively, whjat humanity thinks also shapes our collective reality. so, there's potentially quite powerful stuff in what one believes. There's lots of mystic, and occult stufff on it. 'Occult' being used in it's true sense of the word here.

Are you saying our beliefs are very powerful and it definitely shapes our reality?
and you are backing your statements with quotes from QP cool geeks who are merging science & Occult?
and therefore if I believe in higher self, then it will be true for me?

Anyhow, to illustrate this better, you might wanna check out James Twyman's spoonbending course, on DailyOm. The spoodbending is only a party trick really, but it illustrates, and actually shows, how we do shape our reality. Gimme a PM if you're thinking of going on the course before you sign up, so i can tell you something else. .

WAIT a cotton-picking minute!!
What??
That's awesome!

SPOONBENDING?????????????
There's a course on SPOONBENDING??? a Party trick??? ( ....I have heard that one before!!!)
so, Spoonbending is about shaping reality?????

Yeah, Yeah, I want to hear ALL about it!!




DO YOU bend spoons??

thehungrycaterpillar wrote:

Quantum physics indicates that we, individually can shape our own reality. Folks like Gregg Braden (i think he's cool), say that collectively, whjat humanity thinks also shapes our collective reality. so, there's potentially quite powerful stuff in what one believes. There's lots of mystic, and occult stufff on it. 'Occult' being used in it's true sense of the word here.

Are you saying our beliefs are very powerful and it definitely shapes our reality?
and you are backing your statements with quotes from QP cool geeks who are merging science & Occult?
and therefore if I believe in higher self, then it will be true for me?

I can't find the exact experiment, but scientists in a laboratory done an experiment. Under a high powered microscope, they had atoms or molecules placed (can't remember which) . These either spin left or right. Every single time the scientists thought they'd spin one way, they were! As these are the building blocks of live, this indicates that we can actually alter, and create our own reality.

Gregg Braden,and visionaries like him say that what humanity collectively thinks dictates our reality also. As it's a collective consciousness. He goes on to say, for instance, that in 2012, we have an opportunity to greatly alter reality, for the good. Though, that's a whole different subject in a way.

thehungrycaterpillar wrote:

Anyhow, to illustrate this betterr, you might wanna check out James Twyman's spoonbending course, on DailyOm. The spoodbending is only a party trick really, but it illustrates, and actually shows, how we do shape our reality. Gimme a PM if you're thinking of going on the course before you sign up, so i can tell you something else. .

WAIT a cotton-picking minute!!
What??
That's awesome!

SPOONBENDING?????????????
There's a course on SPOONBENDING??? a Party trick??? ( ....I have heard that one before!!!)
so, Spoonbending is about shaping reality?????

Yeah, Yeah, I want to hear ALL about it!!




DO YOU bend spoons??

I done the course last year. It was really good, in fact, it was excellant. Although it's called a spoonbendign course, it's not about spoonbending really, hehe.

I remember the first time it happened. It was my 3rd go at it in about 3 days (at that section of the course). I was doing it in my bedroom. I had a little teaspoon, and it moved a bit. Only a small bit, but noticeable. I got excited, and went and called my missus. I told her, and showed her what had happened. All along i was still rubbing the spoon, then suddenely i could feel it almost 'wilt' in my fingers. It had moved another maybe, 30 degrees, hehe. I was real excited!

This is exactly what James Twyman wants from the course. He shows us that we can do something like this, and once we actually see with our own eyes we can, the real objective for the course becomes clear. I'll not spoil that though!

It sounds fantastic in a way, but really, we can all do it, there's nothing inherently 'special' about it. There's no reason why any of us can;t do it. Well there is.. If we feel, and believe we can't do it, then we won't.

I'm gonna disgress here a bit. Greeg Braden has an excellant video out of the lost mode of prayer. He says that nowadays, folks don't pray the way it is meant to be. He uses firsthand examples from many indigenous spiruitual folks, shamans, Native Americans, etc. He says that when one prays, they have to feel, beleive & know, that theri prayer has already been answered! ANd also feel the joy that coems with that answered prayer. Then, the universe will move to accomoadate that.

It's the same principle in the spoon-bending course. We reagrd the spoon as bent, and 'see' it as such, and feel the joy of the accomplishment, and truely beleive all of it. Then, little 'miracles' happen. .






Take care
Wayne

[quote="Milarepa"]

thehungrycaterpillar wrote:

I can't find the exact experiment, but scientists in a laboratory done an experiment. Under a high powered microscope, they had atoms or molecules placed (can't remember which) . These either spin left or right. Every single time the scientists thought they'd spin one way, they were! As these are the building blocks of live, this indicates that we can actually alter, and create our own reality.

Gregg Braden,and visionaries like him say that what humanity collectively thinks dictates our reality also. As it's a collective consciousness. He goes on to say, for instance, that in 2012, we have an opportunity to greatly alter reality, for the good. Though, that's a whole different subject in a way.

I believe it was Electrons and this is Schroedinger's Cat theory. You change the outcome of something observed simply by observing it. In other words, when you expect to find a particle with an electron, you find its mass. When you expect to find velocity, you find its speed. But for whatever reason you cannot find both its mass and its velocity during the same observation.

I can't find the exact experiment, but scientists in a laboratory done an experiment. Under a high powered microscope, they had atoms or molecules placed (can't remember which) . These either spin left or right. Every single time the scientists thought they'd spin one way, they were! As these are the building blocks of live, this indicates that we can actually alter, and create our own reality.

Gregg Braden,and visionaries like him say that what humanity collectively thinks dictates our reality also. As it's a collective consciousness. He goes on to say, for instance, that in 2012, we have an opportunity to greatly alter reality, for the good. Though, that's a whole different subject in a way.

Whoa, I need to check this one out!!

I done the course last year. It was really good, in fact, it was excellant. Although it's called a spoonbendign course, it's not about spoonbending really, hehe.

I remember the first time it happened. It was my 3rd go at it in about 3 days (at that section of the course). I was doing it in my bedroom. I had a little teaspoon, and it moved a bit. Only a small bit, but noticeable. I got excited, and went and called my missus. I told her, and showed her what had happened. All along i was still rubbing the spoon, then suddenely i could feel it almost 'wilt' in my fingers. It had moved another maybe, 30 degrees, hehe. I was real excited!

If I was a wolf , I'll give a good happy howling right about now!!

This is exactly what James Twyman wants from the course. He shows us that we can do something like this, and once we actually see with our own eyes we can, the real objective for the course becomes clear. I'll not spoil that though!

and, I'll continue howling......

It sounds fantastic in a way, but really, we can all do it, there's nothing inherently 'special' about it. There's no reason why any of us can;t do it. Well there is.. If we feel, and believe we can't do it, then we won't.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!!!

He says that nowadays, folks don't pray the way it is meant to be. He uses firsthand examples from many indigenous spiruitual folks, shamans, Native Americans, etc. He says that when one prays, they have to feel, beleive & know, that theri prayer has already been answered! ANd also feel the joy that coems with that answered prayer. Then, the universe will move to accomoadate that.

VERY VERY beautiful!!
and I believe it with all my soul!!

It's the same principle in the spoon-bending course. We reagrd the spoon as bent, and 'see' it as such, and feel the joy of the accomplishment, and truely beleive all of it. Then, little 'miracles' happen. .

Yes, they do!!

Thaak wrote:

Milarepa wrote:

I can't find the exact experiment, but scientists in a laboratory done an experiment. Under a high powered microscope, they had atoms or molecules placed (can't remember which) . These either spin left or right. Every single time the scientists thought they'd spin one way, they were! As these are the building blocks of live, this indicates that we can actually alter, and create our own reality.

Gregg Braden,and visionaries like him say that what humanity collectively thinks dictates our reality also. As it's a collective consciousness. He goes on to say, for instance, that in 2012, we have an opportunity to greatly alter reality, for the good. Though, that's a whole different subject in a way.

I believe it was Electrons and this is Schroedinger's Cat theory.

Not exactly. It's the 'Cophenhagen interpretation', of which Bohr and Heisenberg were involved in the experimnents i'm speaking of.

Schroedinger's Cat theory, which is really more of a paradox, was Schroedinger's attempt to tackle what he saw as an issue with the Copenhagen experiment. Although, the Cophenhagen experiement in 1997 was shown (in a poll) to be the most widely accepted specific-interpreation in physics.

Schroedinger's Cat theory shows that there is a 50/50 chance the cat will be dead in the box (which no-one can see inside). Whilst the Cophenhagen interpretation can conclude that at the micro level, human observation can change the course of an event.

Maybe Bruce can give an input, he's a physics background.

Take care
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:

Thaak wrote:

Milarepa wrote:

I can't find the exact experiment, but scientists in a laboratory done an experiment. Under a high powered microscope, they had atoms or molecules placed (can't remember which) . These either spin left or right. Every single time the scientists thought they'd spin one way, they were! As these are the building blocks of live, this indicates that we can actually alter, and create our own reality.

Gregg Braden,and visionaries like him say that what humanity collectively thinks dictates our reality also. As it's a collective consciousness. He goes on to say, for instance, that in 2012, we have an opportunity to greatly alter reality, for the good. Though, that's a whole different subject in a way.

I believe it was Electrons and this is Schroedinger's Cat theory.

Not exactly. It's the 'Cophenhagen interpretation', of which Bohr and Heisenberg were involved in the experimnents i'm speaking of.

Schroedinger's Cat theory, which is really more of a paradox, was Schroedinger's attempt to tackle what he saw as an issue with the Copenhagen experiment. Although, the Cophenhagen experiement in 1997 was shown (in a poll) to be the most widely accepted specific-interpreation in physics.

Schroedinger's Cat theory shows that there is a 50/50 chance the cat will be dead in the box (which no-one can see inside). Whilst the Cophenhagen interpretation can conclude that at the micro level, human observation can change the course of an event.

Take care
Wayne

Right you are, Wayne. The Schroedinger's Cat thought experiment -- proposed by, you guessed it, Erwin Schroedinger -- was an attempt to refute the Copenhagen school's adherence to the uncertainty principle. Schroedinger asserted that the cat would be either definitely dead or definitely alive, regardless of our inability to observe it while the box was closed. The Copenhagen school's response was to posit that there were indeterminate states that were not resolved until we opened the box -- at which time, one probability wave function would endure and all other possible probability wave functions for the outcome would collapse to zero. A refinement led to the multiworlds interpretation of quantum theory, in which each probability wave function endures in its own reality, split off from the others at the moment the box is opened -- like the science fiction stuff of alternate realities.

Bruce