Did Hawayo Takata feel the need to lie about Reiki history?

Colin wrote:

Hi Dana

Yes, many Reiki practitioners who use the so-called "Traditional Japanese Reiki Techniques" still do this technique or at least a fully clothed version. The Nerve Stroke is based on a technique taught by Chujiro Hayashi, called Ketsueki Kokan Ho (Blood Exchange (or Circulation) Technique), which, in its full version, can actually be used as a standalone technique as well as a way to finish off a Reiki session. Since it does involve stroking, patting and pushing it is best done only where there are no local laws against practicing Massage without a licence, as it is really a form of Reiki massage.

It is usually taught in styles such as Gendai, Komyo, Vortex and Jikiden Reiki.

I find it is a great way to come out of a Reiki session!

That's what I thought. I'd read about "Blood Exchange" before in the listing for Traditional Japanese Reiki Techniques, but figured it was probably not something many of us could legally do without also being a licensed massage therapist. I can do hands-on Reiki treatments in the state where I live, but I know that several states (NJ, FL) will not allow hands-on work without being a licensed massage therapist. I never considered whether or not doing this technique was allowable in my state. I could do reflexology without being a licensed massage therapist, so maybe it is possible.

Colin, there; something in my head about that technqiue not being acceptable in Uk. was it to do with UK Reiki Fed, i can't remember. it was a prominent perosn in that that told me.

Dragonfly wrote:Does anyone do the "nerve stroke" technique anymore? Is there a variant that we can do that would not be considered "manipulative" (as in massage)?

Hello Dragonfly

Yes there is a variant. You do everything exactly the same as you do in the standard Nerve Stroke only that the stroking hand doesn't touch the client's back/spine. Instead of physically pressing each side of the spine, you press the energy. I mean by this, you hold your hand about an inch from the body, and get a feel for the client's energy, kind of bounce your hand, raise and lower it very slightly a few times till you can feel a "pull" as your hand comes up. Then "push" the energy down till your hand is maybe one third inch from the spine, then do the sweep. You should feel a kind of dragging sensation as you do it, if you got it right.


EZRI

EzriReiki wrote:
Hello Dragonfly

Yes there is a variant. You do everything exactly the same as you do in the standard Nerve Stroke only that the stroking hand doesn't touch the client's back/spine. Instead of physically pressing each side of the spine, you press the energy. I mean by this, you hold your hand about an inch from the body, and get a feel for the client's energy, kind of bounce your hand, raise and lower it very slightly a few times till you can feel a "pull" as your hand comes up. Then "push" the energy down till your hand is maybe one third inch from the spine, then do the sweep. You should feel a kind of dragging sensation as you do it, if you got it right.


EZRI

Thank you so much! That makes perfect sense and oddly enough, several times recently I have felt like I actually wanted to do something like that during client sessions, but wasn't sure where that idea came from.

Milarepa wrote:Colin, there; something in my head about that technqiue not being acceptable in Uk. was it to do with UK Reiki Fed, i can't remember. it was a prominent perosn in that that told me.

Acceptable to whom?

A prominent person in the UKRF, eh? Now who could that be?

It certainly hasn't been mentioned to the general membership, which includes many people who practice this technique. Robert Jefford, the Chair of the UKRF is a Jikiden Reiki Practitioner, among many other styles which would practice this.

I also have it specifically stated on my Reiki insurance, obtained through the UKRF, that it is for a Jikiden Reiki and Reiki Master so that those techniques which could be considered as massage are also covered. The insurance company has been made aware theat certain styles of Reiki may actually practice this type of technique so there should be no problem.

Robert practices it? that makes perfect sense, considering the person who told me, .

I'll just leave our chat at that,

Is the nerve stroke an actual massage.
along side the spine? Can it be done
with out touching?

chi_solas wrote:Is the nerve stroke an actual massage.
along side the spine? Can it be done
with out touching?

Hi Bridget

See post no. 28 in this very thread!

Colin wrote:

chi_solas wrote:Is the nerve stroke an actual massage.
along side the spine? Can it be done
with out touching?

Hi Bridget

See post no. 28 in this very thread!

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. If its not
touching as in massage then I see no
reason why it can't be used as a Reiki
hand position. Unless folks only want to
use hand positions that were used by Usui.
It really is a matter of preference.

If it involves legal matters with the massage
licence i would not use it.

Hi Bridget

See post no. 25!

I'm starting to sound like a Chinese Restaurant menu!

But basically, yes, it is a form of light massage when done as Chujiro Hayashi and Hawayo Takata did it but it is also a Reiki technique. So, in locations where there are laws concerning compulsory massage licences it would be best to do an off-body version, or not bother with it at all.

John Gray, in his book, Hand to Hand, says that although Takata did "a hand manipulation along the spine to improve the blood circulation", he does not teach it because it involves "manipulation of tissue", which requires a massage licence in many jurisdictions. Instead he teaches a pattern of hand positions on the back, legs and feet which accomplishes the same thing without tissue manipulation.

HI folks,
I just got word back from the Executive Officer of the 'Board of Massage Therapy' In Honollulu, Hawaii. They told me that in 1933 the board had requirements for the laundering of linen, and uniforms (for cleanliness), but it wasn't until 1945 that the regulations for massage therapy began to be implemented.
She also went on to say that Reiki isn't covered by the massage license. I take it she can only mean Hawaii as a state.

Warmest wishes
Wayne

Every state has it's own regulation laws.
There are federal, state. city laws.

I got a further email from the Executive Officer of board of Massage Therapy, Hawaii. she told me that there are indeed records of Hawayo Takata appying for/or being granted a massage licence, between 1945-1950.

Knowing Takata sensei already did massage, and what the Board of Massage have already implied (by saying Reiki isn't covered by it), and that many, many healers weren't able to even apply for the license, with Takata sensei already having most of the skills, it's common sense that she decided to switch focus, and plug the demand for legal massage.

There's clear business & legal implications why she changed the sign. The more sinister reasons didn't really exist.

Milarepa wrote:I got a further email from the Executive Officer of board of Massage Therapy, Hawaii. she told me that there are indeed records of Hawayo Takata appying for/or being granted a massage licence, between 1945-1950.

Knowing Takata sensei already did massage, and what the Board of Massage have already implied (by saying Reiki isn't covered by it), and that many, many healers weren't able to even apply for the license, with Takata sensei already having most of the skills, it's common sense that she decided to switch focus, and plug the demand for legal massage.

There's clear business & legal implications why she changed the sign. The more sinister reasons didn't really exist.

I like that you keep knocking on
doors until you get the answer
that makes the most sense

Hi, I just stumbled upon this old thread and it was a fascinating read (as usual)!

It is great that we have people on board who have the time, patience and resources to study these facts.

Anyway, I'd like to stick to something Wayne wrote in the beginning of the thread:

Milarepa wrote:Imo, it's been vital Takata sensei is discredited in order for the originality styles to have a purpose of existence.

Why do you feel that way? My understaning is that no matter how perfect and truthful teachers both Hayashi and Takata may have been, there is a valid purpose in studying the origins. And as we know there are differencies (and this is not to say either way is better or worse), isn't it fair that we have the chance to compare and select what seems most suitable for each of us personally?

As far as I know people never pass on oral teaching in exactly the same way they receive it themselves, so to say that neither Hayashi or Takata never changed anything would be embellishment at the very least. Takata may have had a number of reasons to change some details - but I guess it is obvious by now that each generation of reiki teachers after her have changed at least as much, so concentrating on what Takata may or may not have changed, although interesting in its own right, is not as fundamental as we may like to think.

hiya matti, for any 'originalilty' style to have a bona fide reason for existing, there first must be severe doubt as to the style whom would be it's main 'competitor'. Usui shiki Ryoho was the style, so in order for other styles to have an appeal, to have a reason to exist, and to have the interest, certain marketing had to be done. Usui Shiki Ryoho, and Takata sensei, have been lambasted for many years now, by folks who havn't a clue what they're even talking about.

Here's an example: a pretty well known Reiki 'expert' is on a video online saying any lineage coming from Hayashi to Takata is western linegage. that the others are easternlineage. i've spoke on their forum bout this, and am waiting for them to respond atm. explaining i fail to see how a Japanese man (Hayashi) teaching in a Japanese format to a Japanese woman (Takata), fails to be an eastern lineage, but is a western one. I went on to explain i can see why folks make this implication (it's the assumption all western is wrong, eastern is correct), but there's no logical sense in it.

You tell me matti, how attractive would it be to get involved with these Japanese styles, if folks realsied that Usui Shiki Ryoho exists in a format that was taught by one of Usui sensei's students? Everyone chases their tails for this new style, that new style, this so called new technique, etc. A person just needs to study Usui Shiki Ryoho a bit more, and it costs them far less than going and learning a new style that claims something. Course, this attitude would make these modern styles less appealing.

Anyhow, yes, a good teacher will vary some things per class, etc, this is very small aspects. A person can't keep the integrity of a single format system if they change the format greatly. i've been told by someone who was taught by more than one of Takata sensei's master students, that the changes that Takata made were very very slight. It's greatly assumed out of proportion,

cocnentrating on what Takata sensei may or may have not changed surely isn't fundamental to folks not interestred in it. There are folks that are interested in it, and who want to experience Usui Shiki Ryoho as it was meant to be. What the trend is, folks who do experience the style as Takata sensei taught tend not be very vocal about it, and don't even care for online talks at all.

warmest wishes
Wayne

Hi Wayne,

Thank you for the thorough answer! Hope you don't mind if I continue the conversation...

Milarepa wrote:for any 'originalilty' style to have a bona fide reason for existing, there first must be severe doubt as to the style whom would be it's main 'competitor'. Usui shiki Ryoho was the style, so in order for other styles to have an appeal, to have a reason to exist, and to have the interest, certain marketing had to be done. Usui Shiki Ryoho, and Takata sensei, have been lambasted for many years now, by folks who havn't a clue what they're even talking about.

Uhh, yes, there is always the marketing issue. But still, do you believe that two generations of teachers (obviously with very little written notes) would manage to keep a style completely authentic? With all due respect to Hayashi and Takata (and yes, that is a lot of respect) I won't. Therefore, in my opinion, the research for the origins is very well justified. Add to that the respect for the Founder, Mr Usui. Any bit of information about him is to me at least as valuable as information about Hayashi or Takata.

Another issue is the secrecy of the Western "original lineages" you mentioned yourself. Nobody knows about them because they keep quiet, and even if somebody found out, they refuse to take students. How is a poor wannabe reiki student supposed to find the wisdom so well preserved? At least the Eastern "original lineages" share their knowledge - well, those of whom we hear, anyway. I'm certain that there are well-kept secrets in Japan also, but what we don't know can't harm (or help) us.

Milarepa wrote:Here's an example: a pretty well known Reiki 'expert' is on a video online saying any lineage coming from Hayashi to Takata is western linegage. that the others are easternlineage. i've spoke on their forum bout this, and am waiting for them to respond atm. explaining i fail to see how a Japanese man (Hayashi) teaching in a Japanese format to a Japanese woman (Takata), fails to be an eastern lineage, but is a western one. I went on to explain i can see why folks make this implication (it's the assumption all western is wrong, eastern is correct), but there's no logical sense in it.

I fully agree that both Hayashi and Takata are Japanese (although Takata never actually lived in Japan, so I believe in Japan she would not have been considered a real Japanese). However, since that is the lineage that introduced reiki to the West, I also understand why somebody would call that the Western lineage. Not because of the persons themselves but because of the result.

Milarepa wrote:You tell me matti, how attractive would it be to get involved with these Japanese styles, if folks realsied that Usui Shiki Ryoho exists in a format that was taught by one of Usui sensei's students? Everyone chases their tails for this new style, that new style, this so called new technique, etc. A person just needs to study Usui Shiki Ryoho a bit more, and it costs them far less than going and learning a new style that claims something. Course, this attitude would make these modern styles less appealing.

People have chased their tails for dozens of different "Western" (or "Tibetan" or "Egyptian" or "Atlantian" or whatever) styles before the "Original" boom ever existed. New symbols, new attunements, you name it. Naturally everyone claims that their style is the best, the most powerful and so forth. Could it really be that nobody would be interested in Japanese styles without discrediting Takata?

But now we return to the beginning: the marketing issue. If you have something other than Hayashi - Takata lineage to offer, what could be better marketing strategy than find out any faults and deficiencies in that one?

And the secrecy issue as well. Usui Shiki Ryoho may exist in the original format but what does it help if nobody ever fins out?

All the best,
MattiT

MattiT wrote:

Uhh, yes, there is always the marketing issue. But still, do you believe that two generations of teachers (obviously with very little written notes) would manage to keep a style completely authentic? With all due respect to Hayashi and Takata (and yes, that is a lot of respect) I won't. Therefore, in my opinion, the research for the origins is very well justified. Add to that the respect for the Founder, Mr Usui. Any bit of information about him is to me at least as valuable as information about Hayashi or Takata.

Have you taught orally? I have, and do a couple of things, it hasn't been generations, but a teacher gets to very easily know the curriculem they're teaching, and if they wayn to, they don't stray that much. I've already mentioned about someone who personally told me they'd been trained by two of Takata sensei master students, and the differences were slight. As it was two different master students own training, over a period of 5 years in total. It's more concrete than a guess to the contrary, no offence, .

MattiT wrote:
Another issue is the secrecy of the Western "original lineages" you mentioned yourself. Nobody knows about them because they keep quiet, and even if somebody found out, they refuse to take students. How is a poor wannabe reiki student supposed to find the wisdom so well preserved? At least the Eastern "original lineages" share their knowledge - well, those of whom we hear, anyway. I'm certain that there are well-kept secrets in Japan also, but what we don't know can't harm (or help) us.

The lineages keep quiet, now. Obviously all lineages that came from Takata sensei were open to one degree or another.

Any ideas why their materialised a need to keep things more private? You got it, cause practitioners began to basterdise Usui Shiki Ryoho. So it's now almost discredited with all it's own authentic originality, and is relagated to a stepping stone temporary system. Our fellow practitioners doen this, as well as publicly (inaccurately) lambast key figures aligned to Usui shiki Ryoho.

To preserve a spiritual path that folks hold dear, before it vanishes out of existence, what else is one to do.

Students are accepted, I'm only going from personal impressions, i'm not one of these students, and not likely to be. i'm having the huge honour of getting what i want another way, . Anyhow, it's only a very exceptional person that these other folks would accept.

MattiT wrote:
I fully agree that both Hayashi and Takata are Japanese (although Takata never actually lived in Japan, so I believe in Japan she would not have been considered a real Japanese). However, since that is the lineage that introduced reiki to the West, I also understand why somebody would call that the Western lineage. Not because of the persons themselves but because of the result.

By that reasoning, every style that gets taught in the west now, will become or is a western lineage.

If the style was taught by a Japanese man, mostly in his clinic in Japan, to a Japanese woman, living in his clinic in Japan, It's a claim to an eastern style as these new modern styles who cliam to be 100 years old, hehe.

The reason why it's said that Usui Shiki Ryoho isn't eastern, is cause folks have some kinda brainwash that anything coming out of Japan now is authentic Reiki. If Usui Shiki Ryoho has it's roots totally discredtited, then all the better for the new styles.

MattiT wrote:
People have chased their tails for dozens of different "Western" (or "Tibetan" or "Egyptian" or "Atlantian" or whatever) styles before the "Original" boom ever existed. New symbols, new attunements, you name it. Naturally everyone claims that their style is the best, the most powerful and so forth. Could it really be that nobody would be interested in Japanese styles without discrediting Takata?

I never said, or implied 'nobody' woould be interested, . That a big assumption, hehe. I'm saying that if Usui Shiki Ryoho practitioners that searched for original roots in Reiki would research their own style, and not assume everything everyone else does now, then they'd see there's no need to go learn any other style. They already have everything, in plain sight.

MattiT wrote:
But now we return to the beginning: the marketing issue. If you have something other than Hayashi - Takata lineage to offer, what could be better marketing strategy than find out any faults and deficiencies in that one?

I'm not sure what you mean. This is what's been done to Usui Shiki Ryoho. Read the topics on here i've done about Takata sensei, it's viral marketing wrongful assertions made about her. But the question is, why? It took me 5 weeks Matti, 5 weeks of research to refute (or strongly challenge) what many other 'expereinced' researchers claim about her. How come this isn't widespread in other places? How come folks have even said these wrong things? These are questions that should be asked.

Folks who stick true in lineage to Usui Shiki Ryoho, would never speak bad about any other style. They also won't defend themselves in public either, they prefer to let folks just say what they wish, and think what they wish. This is much to my consternation personally, but they know much more than i do, and i gotta respect that. i'm too much of a big mouth though, hehe.

MattiT wrote:
And the secrecy issue as well. Usui Shiki Ryoho may exist in the original format but what does it help if nobody ever fins out?

Everyone did know bout Usui shiki Ryoho, and look what has happened to it. You think Jikiden, Komyo, Karuna, Tera Mai, Gendai would let folks do that to their styles? Course not. Usui shiki Ryoho is entitled to the same protection of it's intregrinnbhty as any other style. Is it really that Reiki folks only abide by other respect cause of legal trademark, that says tons for spirituality. Usui Shiki Ryoho tried to be open, and look what's became of it.

People really love that style, really identify with it, and want it's teachings to remain intact, before they are lost to all other crap. You know, legally, Usui Shiki Ryoho has no chance of being tradmarked now? It's to widespread as a mish-mash. The only option to mantain integrity is to be very, very choosy who get's taught what. It's a sad situation, but the folks in the know have a right to do what is best to preserve the style. thnanks for giving me the opportunity to air something, .

warmes wishes
Wayne

Hi,

First of all I would like to say that I read this tread with great interest.
Especially Takata's sign and the picture of her house are interesting to see!
And of course also the assertions concerning the original Usui Shiki Ryoho.

Next to Reiki (the Great Bright Light) itself, I have a great (an immense) passion for "Reiki history". I am very curious and always willing to hear about 'new' theories or evidence regarding the history of these beautiful teachings.

I can imagine that there are a few people who claim to know the 'secrets' of Takata's teachings.
I furthermore understand that people feel the need to protect those teachings (especially because I try to stay as close to the origins of Usui-sensei's teachings as possible and I have learnt things I deeply respect and treasure - and generally people don't talk about the content of these teachings in public - so if that's kind of the same with USR I completely understand it).


I have a deep respect for what Takata, Hayashi and Usui did and what they taught.
Regardless of the differences in their teachings.

I don't see differences as something bad. I would like to look at them objectively, without judgements.
I do not feel the need to discredit the teachings of Hayashi or Takata (or Usui for that matter).

I do accept the idea that the difference between Takata's teachings and those of Hayashi and perhaps those of Usui-sensei are smaller than we are generally taught.

However, I do not accept the idea that Takata taught exactly (-everything-) what or how Hayashi taught.. let alone how/what Usui-sensei taught.

I agree with MattiT that change is inevitable with oral traditions.
How could it not be? Usui-sensei's way of teaching was very individual and tailored to the student.

I consider it very well possible that Hayashi taught not everything Usui-sensei taught. -What- Hayashi taught may have been exactly (or something close to exact) like Usui presented it to him, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he taught -all- of what Usui had taught him. It seems likely to me that his focus shifted.

Takata also may have taught exactly -what- Hayashi taught her, but not -all- of it.... but what she taught might have been the same.

I have a few questions about Takata's teachings.
Not to be a pain in the neck or something, but out of my deep passion for Reiki history and willingness to learn.

- Didn't Takata teach a principle like "honour your parents/teachers/elders"?
(While the original Gokai do not mention parents, teachers, elders or something like honouring).

- Did Takata teach to pronounce the first mantra as "tsjoo-kuu-ray", the second as "say-hey-key" or was it something different?

- Did she tell her students to recite the 5 principles in Japanese, as a mantra?
- Were initiations or attunement rituals only given at the start of each level and/or was there a spiritual blessing of some sort at every meeting between teacher and student?
- Did she teach the complete Hatsurei Hō ?
- Did she stress the importance of regular and intensive meditation?
- Did she say that Usui-sensei was a Christian (in stead of being a Buddhist all his life)?
- Was the duration of a "level 1" or "level 2" course longer than (for example) five days?

*Gasshō*
Frank

What feedback does John Gray
Takata's granddaughter or other
Takata's Reiki teachers give
regarding Takata's teachings

Frank wrote:

However, I do not accept the idea that Takata taught exactly (-everything-) what or how Hayashi taught.. let alone how/what Usui-sensei taught.

Cool, . Explain why please.

Frank wrote:
I agree with MattiT that change is inevitable with oral traditions.
How could it not be? Usui-sensei's way of teaching was very individual and tailored to the student.

It was?

Frank wrote:
I consider it very well possible that Hayashi taught not everything Usui-sensei taught. -What- Hayashi taught may have been exactly (or something close to exact) like Usui presented it to him, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he taught -all- of what Usui had taught him. It seems likely to me that his focus shifted.

Why is it likely?

Frank wrote:
- Didn't Takata teach a principle like "honour your parents/teachers/elders"?
(While the original Gokai do not mention parents, teachers, elders or something like honouring).

not exactly. Takata sensei would at times expound upon the 'being grateful' meaning, by saying things such as 'We will count our blessings', 'be grateful for our many blessings'. telling us also that gratitude meant food, realtives, freinds, neighbours, etc.

Frank wrote:
- Did Takata teach to pronounce the first mantra as "tsjoo-kuu-ray", the second as "say-hey-key" or was it something different?

speak to one of her students Frank, ask them. the class was oral, so she told the students verbally how to pronounce them. she got the students to of course then verbally repeat them. there was no symbol beginning with a t. i'm not sure how that would be pronounced.

Frank wrote:
- Did she tell her students to recite the 5 principles in Japanese, as a mantra?

What was most important to her, was to live by the 5 principles. Seh devoted every single aspect of her life to them. In this respect, what language they were understaood is neither here nor there. That's only an outward trinket.

Frank wrote:
- Were initiations or attunement rituals only given at the start of each level and/or was there a spiritual blessing of some sort at every meeting between teacher and student?

There was no reiju. and there's no proof Reiju was used by Usui sensei.

Reiju became a buzz word from when the Hikkei first materialised. Incidentally, the Hikkei is by no means without it's own controversy. 2 folks in different parts of the world both claiming to have been the ones to provide it. And with it being sold online to boot.

you're asking a question based on material from a person who actually made up the Reiju process themselves, and only some time later folks found it it had actually been made up.

Frank wrote:
- Did she teach the complete Hatsurei Hō ?

This is extremely interesting, and it's a reason why i personally discount the online hikkei, so many seem to take as being wrote 100 years ago.

The little i've saw of Takata sensei's diary extracts, there's no mention of hatsurei ho. Mention of other things, just no hatsurei ho. she never taught it. and it looks like she was never taught it herself.

there is a mention of it in a 1933 book 'Tomita Ryu Teate Ryoho', by Kaiji tomita. Though what i try often to explain to folks is that this book saying bout Hatsurei is a book in which the author clearly identifies his own style. So when a person identifies his own style, he naturally includes his onw things. This puts into doubt using this book as a solid basis for fact Hatsurei was included in Usui Reiki.

so we go back to the Hikkei, and what i said above.

Incidentally, a person who knew Fran Brown well told me that when Fran visited Chiyoko Yamguchi and they compared her Usui Shiki Ryoho with what Ciyoko was taught, Chiyoko said that Fran was the only one in the west teaching what Hayashi sensei taught. That speaks volumes. Of course, Fran never taught Hatusrei, so there's a little anomoly, as to how Chiyoko could say that.

Frank wrote:
- Did she stress the importance of regular and intensive meditation?

I mentioned this in another topic to you Frank, . the importance was on the 5 principles, of which gratitude was most important, alongside experiencing Reiki for ourselves & others. Daily self-treats are of course meditiative, since we should have mindfullness of what we're doing.

Frank wrote:
- Did she say that Usui-sensei was a Christian (in stead of being a Buddhist all his life)?

she did say he was a Christian. And she said that same day that Hayashi sensei told her the history about Usui Sensei. So we can look to judge is a man of such high morals as Hayashi sensei would tell a lie about his own teacher.

And then we can see if Usui sensei actually wasn't Christian. Cause there's no proof he wasn't, and also no proof he wasn't involved with any of the new religions, such as omoto kyo, which took aspects of various religions, including chrstianity.

Frank wrote:
- Was the duration of a "level 1" or "level 2" course longer than (for example) five days?

For whom? Takata sensei, or her students? Takata sensei went through intense training alongside Hayashi sensei. Living in his home, which is a huge honour. Denoting a special student. Her actual level 1 training lasted 4 days. With Chikyo Yamguchi indicating hers was similar.

Takata sensei taught level 1 with 4 initiations, with a gap between each one.

I gotta go back to fixing my car now Frank, sorry, i broke down whne i was out earlier. If i've time later, i'll talk more. Please feel free to respond to what i've wrote anyhow.

many thanks
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:

Everyone did know bout Usui shiki Ryoho, and look what has happened to it. You think Jikiden, Komyo, Karuna, Tera Mai, Gendai would let folks do that to their styles? Course not. Usui shiki Ryoho is entitled to the same protection of it's intregrinnbhty as any other style. Is it really that Reiki folks only abide by other respect cause of legal trademark, that says tons for spirituality. Usui Shiki Ryoho tried to be open, and look what's became of it.

People really love that style, really identify with it, and want it's teachings to remain intact, before they are lost to all other crap. You know, legally, Usui Shiki Ryoho has no chance of being tradmarked now? It's to widespread as a mish-mash. The only option to mantain integrity is to be very, very choosy who get's taught what. It's a sad situation, but the folks in the know have a right to do what is best to preserve the style. thnanks for giving me the opportunity to air something, .

warmes wishes
Wayne

Brilliant !!

Hello MattiT

MattiT wrote:

I fully agree that both Hayashi and Takata are Japanese (although Takata never actually lived in Japan, so I believe in Japan she would not have been considered a real Japanese).

This is quite true. Both of Takata's parents were born in Japan, but because Takata was born outside the borders of the Japanese Empire, even though she had grown up in a Japanese family, went to Japanese school, learned to read, write and communicate in Japanese, she was for many people very different, foreign.

Milarepa wrote:
For whom? Takata sensei, or her students? Takata sensei went through intense training alongside Hayashi sensei. Living in his home, which is a huge honour. Denoting a special student.

Hello Wayne,
From what I have learnt, only a student felt to possess an exceptional capacity for growth and development would be invited by a teacher to live in their household. The student would often be taught many things the other students were not and, outside regular teaching and training, would absorb much from simply being in the teachers presence as they conducted their daily life. This could be a cause of much envy and jealousy in some other students, so how would it be when the chosen student was really an outsider, not even, as MattiT says, a real Japanese?


EZRI

Hello Ezri,

EzriReiki wrote:

...and, outside regular teaching and training, would absorb much from simply being in the teachers presence as they conducted their daily life.

this actually really is true. only last month i said ot my martial arts teacher (who was staying with me) how much i learn with him being with me. He then told me of what is beleived in his homeland. that 'conscious transference' or something takes place. when a student sits with, or looks at his teacher (or image) long enough, it is possible to absrob all the teachings!

Lucky me, my teacher is on his way in the train now, to come vist me for another week!!!!!! excited? yo bet i AMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.. I pick him up at 9 pm!

EzriReiki wrote:
This could be a cause of much envy and jealousy in some other students, so how would it be when the chosen student was really an outsider, not even, as MattiT says, a real Japanese?

me with me ever so big mouth. i spoke bout what had been told to Fran Brown, when she compared Usui Shiki Ryoho, with a certain other woman. Now, history has changed itself, and apparentely Fran was never told this. Hehe. A person whom i trust implicity told me Fran told them it, and i beleive him. Just thought i'd throw that into the mix, hehe.

Warmest wishes
Wayne

Hello Frank

Frank wrote:
- Did Takata teach to pronounce the first mantra as "tsjoo-kuu-ray"

No. And this is known, not just from stories about Takata. A master student, John Harvey Gray, taped many hours of Takata giving Reiki lectures, answering students questions, and teaching Reiki. On one of the tapes you can hear Takata discussing the CKR and pronouncing it a few times. It is difficult to convey pronunciation in written words, especially as we all pronounce words with our own national, regional, or even individual accents. And even though Takata I suppose had what would be called a Hawaiian-Japanese accent, even so she pronounced CKR in very much the same way I have heard many Japanese people pronounce it. Something like: “CHOCK-uh-RAY”, or “CHOKE-uh-RAY”, said quite quickly, with accent, with the focus on the uppercase syllables.

Frank wrote:
- Did she say that Usui-sensei was a Christian (in stead of being a Buddhist all his life)?

Yes. Takata said he was a Christian, she did not say he was one all his life, she did not say he was not a Buddhist


EZRI