Non-Reiki 'uses' of reiki

Bruce wrote:
.........a massage practitioner who is also a reiki practitioner cannot ever refrain from giving reiki during a massage session (?)

(question mark is mine)

while Bridget is no way under a 'duty' to confirm or dispel this proposition, i was curious what is the feedback of rest of us on this issue ? please come forward to share your technical opinions...

Cheers !




salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:

Bruce wrote:
.........a massage practitioner who is also a reiki practitioner cannot ever refrain from giving reiki during a massage session (?)

(question mark is mine)

while Bridget is no way under a 'duty' to confirm or dispel this proposition, i was curious what is the feedback of rest of us on this issue ? please come forward to share your technical opinions...

Cheers !




salman

you salman. This is a great topic

I want to remind others on this board.
that when you find someone altering
your words undermining what you wrote
and challenging you according to the way
they re-structured your words That's
manipulation. You are not obligated to
respond

chi_solas wrote:

Lambs-Wool wrote:

Bruce wrote:
.........a massage practitioner who is also a reiki practitioner cannot ever refrain from giving reiki during a massage session (?)

(question mark is mine)

while Bridget is no way under a 'duty' to confirm or dispel this proposition, i was curious what is the feedback of rest of us on this issue ? please come forward to share your technical opinions...

Cheers !




salman

you salman. This is a great topic

I want to remind others on this board.
that when you find someone altering
your words undermining what you wrote
and challenging you according to the way
they re-structured your words That's
manipulation. You are not obligated to
respond

Bridget, I didn't do any of those things. I'm just noting that for clarification against innuendo.

Bruce

Thank You for great thread Salman,

And thank you for extending the invitation for the rest of us to share our technical opinions.

IMO our answers will differ for we might have different approach/understanding to/about reiki. If I believe that reiki is ULFE and accept that if “the more energy flows the more life one has” than the question I might ask is even if I could stop the flow do I really want to.

We shouldn't forget that, at least I was though this way, it is the recipient who decides if and/or how much of the reiki he/she will accept and if this is so than we shouldn't worry about violating one's free will.

Now back to the first point. We all have experienced some changes after reiki attunement and practicing reiki. Probably the most obvious change is that our hands have become much warmer than before. Is this because of increased flow of ULFE? I do think so. With this being said, am I to avoid shaking hands with friends or should I warned them that they will get “exposed” to reiki if they are in my presence.

The fact is that reiki has changed our “energy structure” if I may put it this way, which also has “build in” protection for us, and call me egoistic but I really do not see any need to “shut this down”

As to the use of the reiki/reiki symbols in non-traditional fashion, even though it is hard to say what is traditional, it is probably safe bet to say that I am non-traditional and I do use reiki for most of the items on your list and it was part of my training.


Regards,

Resko
Find Out How Learning Reiki Can Change Your Life.

Thanks Resko for your thoughts and thanks again for making me revisit the thread !

rzukic wrote:
IMO our answers will differ for we might have different approach/understanding to/about reiki. If I believe that reiki is ULFE and accept that if “the more energy flows the more life one has” than the question I might ask is even if I could stop the flow do I really want to.

as i want to dig deep this stuff, not particularly directed on you buddy, but i appreciate if we have an exchange of some thoughts so that i know where i m lacking in the mainstream...

start : reiki is thought equivalent to ULFE and also sometimes, that it uses ULFE

next : what is ULFE ? it is some 'energy' that permeates all living things and is responsible for life....(a reflection in your post that more ULFE, more life)


next : ULFE is the 'vigour' of life... it composes the presence of 'life' and then goes on invigorating and reinforcing it...


next : we are instinctly programmed by nature to use hands for 'directing' ULFE in case of need (example, if we get hit at knee while walking around in our room and strike the corner of side table, what we do, we take a deep breath, sigh, and put hands on the hit knee.. this is all a reflex action... automatically done.. instantly... everybody does this, even a child too, even someone who never has heard about reiki..

next : people say that with training this action can be made 'refined'... in qi-gong we are taught to move 'energy' in the area we need to direct... this energy is called qi... and to my mind qi is another name of ULFE, maybe ? qi-gong is, in oversimplifed terms, a refinement of our reflex action of putting hands on the area that was hit... what we do instinctively, as said above, is now we learn to apply consciously in qi-gong....


next : qi-gong never needs 'initiation'... it is comes by training and practice... qi-gong master sometimes tap hard on head or other areas of the student in a masterful way to do something, but that is not initiation... i mean to emphasize that a person can self-teach qi-gong by consulting the reference material... and ability to access ULFE is by virtue of practice....again, no initiations needed...


next : okay, if i take reiki as ULFE or something utilizing ULFE, how can i distinguish reiki from Qi-gong as said above ?


next : a central question for academic debate : if we say everybody has ULFE (which i have no doubts ) what does a reiki practitioner do in a session ? possible thoughts (1) he enables him (client) to access his own (client's own) ULFE : okay, it means that practitioner is not working as conduit since how is that logical to assume that client will draw ULFE through practitioner, why not direct from the air, or from the universe ?

second possible thought : as per said above, if client draws energy direct from the universe or from the air, why the hell hands of practitioner get warm in the process ?


finally : ULFE is an energy since we have preferred to coin this term for describing it... ? what if we take ULFE in terms of a 'essence of presence' instead of 'composing unit of presence' ? what if we take ULFE as non-energy thing that puts together all the required resources (energy as well as non-energy) to construct, maintain and sustain something we call LIFE ?


while, i m


take care

salman

Hi Salman,
To start off let me say that you are not out of/ or lacking in main stream or otherwise we need to re-define what mainstream is

Also do not worry if, in order to make a point, you need to “hit me hard” just do it since as my 3 years old daughter say “Daddy is big boy” so it will not hurt

As to Reiki definition I have settled for: Reiki is universal, spiritually conscious life force energy that energies and animates all living things.

As to qi-gong I do not practice and can not talk about it but keep open mind that at the very end the energy might be very similar or of the same origin but using different frequency and of course with different techniques and way of learning/teaching.

Yeah, it is really interesting what does the reiki practitioner do during the treatment and why to treat when everybody has ULFE?!

It brings me to think about another thing what we call breathing, particularly how come that babies breath better than the adults. Breathing is so important and yet most of the adults do not know how to do it. Besides that it keeps us alive it affects the quality of our voice and ability to talk. And finally some stop to breath and we need to restore their breathing even though the oxygen is available in the air.

It seems to me that during reiki session some kind of entrainment happens similar to QT. As to the moving energy in Qi-Gong into the area I think that something similar happens in Reiki as well. i.e. Let's say my wife/daughter have cold and of course staffed nose and can not breath and therefore can not sleep. So what do I do? I move either SHK or CKR either with open eyes (“sending reiki” through the eye) or close my eye and imagine the nose drill and air ways and I move the symbol back and forth several times. The result: the regular breathing is restored in no time.

I like the “what if” and when I want to confuse the heck out of me I read the string theory or the theory of everything here is the link http://www.superstringtheory.com/

Regards,

Resko

Find Out How Learning Reiki Can Change Your Life

second possible thought : as per said above, if client draws energy direct from the universe or from the air, why the hell hands of practitioner get warm in the process ?

I've been told there is a lot
of heat energy in hell

Heat is energy and when my hands
get hot, cold, tingle that is
ULFE. I do not see myself as a
channel or conduit. I do see myself
as a facilitator of ULFE. I know
some folks dispute ULFE . Maybe
its to simple an explaination. If we
take away the scource of ULFE
then we have nothing

The body is its own healer. The hands
automatically go to were the body needs
healing. If I did not have hands then
what?

rzukic wrote:Hi Salman,
To start off let me say that you are not out of/ or lacking in main stream or otherwise we need to re-define what mainstream is

Also do not worry if, in order to make a point, you need to “hit me hard” just do it since as my 3 years old daughter say “Daddy is big boy” so it will not hurt

thanks for this huge encouragement bro

Resko wrote:
As to Reiki definition I have settled for: Reiki is universal, spiritually conscious life force energy that energies and animates all living things.

tbh Resko, one approach is to forget about what actually reiki is, and just to reap the benefits but this does not sit well with me personally... if i m taking benefit of something, i do have to know what is the source behind...


granted, that even if i dont venture to dig deep, reiki would continue to shower its benefits as before, but what does or should this lead me to ? to take a back seat and enjoy, or to eqnuire, haunt my (as well as others' ) minds, debate, converse, read, study, practice ? i think the later is better, if i understand reiki more deeply, i might be able to take benefits in a deeper way ( or not ? )


with this bent of mind, i turn to your take about reiki...


there is a central, innate intelligence in our bodies... this intelligence is like a programming that lead us to grow from infants to adults... the initial instances of binary cell division within a fertilized ovum in the uterine walls of womb, speak of this intelligence... how much to grow, in which direction to grow, how rapid the cell dvision, the metabolism rate, the fucntioning of mitochondriam within our cells, and so on... every thing is programmed or is guided by an 'intelligence'... some people say this intelligence is itself a manifestation of a universal intelligent mind, may he be called God, super-consicousness, light, or else, whatever....

this probably ties in with your words "spiritually conscious life force energy" ?


for me, personally speaking, ULFE is as innate, as in-born, as my presence is..... i possibly dont need to know about ULFE for it to be working.... i would heal my body through ULFE as i do it from the first day of my life, either with the support of medicines, or just without it...


and on one fine day, i get reiki initiations... okay, what do i get ? an access to the ability of 'interacting' with the ULFE that was already within me ? if i interact with something that is already pre-programmed, innately intelligent, what good i m doing overall ?


second : the words that ULFE is 'universal' ! we use the word 'universal' almost in a bonded fashion with concepts of reiki.... what is universality ? me and you sitting in one same room, breathe same oxygen into our lungs, and yet our bodies respond differently to it... the produciton of RBCs' in your body in response to the inhaling instance might be much more than in my body... so what is universal ? something is universal only upto the moment it is not 'taken in' by us, and as soon as it becomes imbibed into our bodies, it is specific, personalized ! if something changes its form when taken a part of us, do we keep calling it universal ? it might be a naughty thought to say that ULFE is not universal but is only universally avaialbe !


this was something i often think about when i hear the words ULFE..... and personally i dont equate reiki with ULFE... no disrespect or particular disagreement intened with anyone... i define reiki as a response to a command or request.. when we self treat, we are not channeling or taking in 'higher' amounts of ULFE, rather we are requesting Divine or our spiritual higherselves to come 'intervene' in our healing process.... this request is through symbols....symbols the work of something like 'commanding the request'.... its strange the 'intervention' or help in our healing process is taken to task through every faculty available... mental, physical, energetic, emotional, spiritual...ad infinitum...


when we treat others, we command the request to the divinity or spiritual presence of that buddy (hence, the importance of 'permission') [[[if bits and pieces of our indiviual divinities make up the whole we call GOD, then of course we are commanding that request to GOD (but this is i m not very clear about)....]]] the person whom we are treating, has his 'spiritual response' 'set in action' and the healing (and other) response his body generates is called REIKI...

this tends to make me going on to say that Reiki is a 'power' (if we have to take it in 'energy-model') that is generated 'within' us and in generating this power we make a use of countless resources, one of whom is ULFE...


and finally, reiki exists only when it is created as a response, instead of taking it as a reservoir or pool from which we would be taking our share...


Reiki-model is very difficult to construct tbh!!

Resko wrote:
As to qi-gong I do not practice and can not talk about it but keep open mind that at the very end the energy might be very similar or of the same origin but using different frequency and of course with different techniques and way of learning/teaching.

in continum of my 'defiant' thoughts , i have to say that reiki has no frequency of its own per se... if we take reiki as a response, it would be having thousands of multiple frequecies or flavours, depending on moment to moment, and person to person..


i have not practiced qi-gong in depth, but in kuji-in and QT, i have a glimpse of what is the nature of qi-gong.. i take qi-gong as 'personal energy at will'.. both qi and reiki are generated by us, the difference only that we can command qi but we cannot command reiki, we can only command the request, through symbols of course.... another difference is that qi is a power that brings about results as per our choice.. we can condense it, we can dilate it, physical augmentation, spritual elevaton, and so on... we can manifest it too (as literature says).. but reiki is not something that brings about these things... in its nature, reiki is the result of something already done.... reiki does not bring about things, it is the bringing about of things we call reiki

Resko wrote:
Yeah, it is really interesting what does the reiki practitioner do during the treatment and why to treat when everybody has ULFE?!

a question that makes me think beyond what is commonly shard by peers...i have sometimes a feeling that those who know reiki in real, are sometimes the least persons who would say a word about it !

Resko wrote:
It brings me to think about another thing what we call breathing, particularly how come that babies breath better than the adults. Breathing is so important and yet most of the adults do not know how to do it. Besides that it keeps us alive it affects the quality of our voice and ability to talk. And finally some stop to breath and we need to restore their breathing even though the oxygen is available in the air.

if you present this observation to make an analogy with ULFE, it makes quite sense

Resko wrote:
It seems to me that during reiki session some kind of entrainment happens similar to QT.

yeah ! and this entrainment of the client is being done not with the practitioner, but with his (client's) own spirituality or spiritual guidance

Resko wrote:

As to the moving energy in Qi-Gong into the area I think that something similar happens in Reiki as well. i.e. Let's say my wife/daughter have cold and of course staffed nose and can not breath and therefore can not sleep. So what do I do? I move either SHK or CKR either with open eyes (“sending reiki” through the eye) or close my eye and imagine the nose drill and air ways and I move the symbol back and forth several times. The result: the regular breathing is restored in no time.

this, so far, has been a very big question for me whenever i try to make a reiki-model

if i analyse myself in light of bit dogmatic thoughts i have stated above, things will not tie up within the model..... here is the point that my confusion starts !

if reiki is defined as an 'outcome' or 'response', how come we use that response to do something that has already happened to bring about that response ? lets say, i have a stomach ache, i reiki myself to self treat... as per my view, reiki occurs and is manifested by the relieving of pain... that is the outcome... so what was that i was doing before that outcome ? reiki, no! something else, Yes!, and what? i dont know


take care

salman

As always salman a thoughtful response

I see Reiki and ULFE as different.
I see Reiki as a tool that uses ULFE.
I see innate and ULFE as the same.
The Reiki System makes us aware of
this innate power that lies dormant
until we call upon it through Reiki
and other preferred methods.

chi_solas wrote:As always salman a thoughtful response

I see Reiki and ULFE as different.
I see Reiki as a tool that uses ULFE.
I see innate and ULFE as the same.
The Reiki System makes us aware of
this innate power that lies dormant
until we call upon it through Reiki
and other preferred methods.

hey Bridget i just realized that though we are from different schools of thought, but i see we are viewing the big picture in one same way

i m rather amazed how things just melt into alignment


take care

salman

tbh Resko, one approach is to forget about what actually reiki is, and just to reap the benefits but this does not sit well with me personally... if i m taking benefit of something, i do have to know what is the source behind...

I personally respect both approaches.

i might be able to take benefits in a deeper way ( or not ? )

I like this :-)

there is a central, innate intelligence in our bodies... this intelligence is like a programming that lead us to grow from infants to adults... the initial instances of binary cell division within a fertilized ovum in the uterine walls of womb, speak of this intelligence... how much to grow, in which direction to grow, how rapid the cell dvision, the metabolism rate, the fucntioning of mitochondriam within our cells, and so on... every thing is programmed or is guided by an 'intelligence'... some people say this intelligence is itself a manifestation of a universal intelligent mind, may he be called God, super-consicousness, light, or else, whatever....

Agreed. We come with some “pre-built” programs. However, let's through in the fact that we shape our reality as we grow with our own thought.

for me, personally speaking, ULFE is as innate, as in-born, as my presence is..... i possibly dont need to know about ULFE for it to be working.... i would heal my body through ULFE as i do it from the first day of my life, either with the support of medicines, or just without it...

Again agreed. We do not need to know about ULFE for it to be working (it certainly works great for babies since most of the time they are in the state of homeostasis, something that we as adults can only dream of) but to come back to previous thought it seems to be affected by our thoughts. We get what we ask for or as Louse Hay put it “I think, I am”.

and on one fine day, i get reiki initiations... okay, what do i get ? an access to the ability of 'interacting' with the ULFE that was already within me ? if i interact with something that is already pre-programmed, innately intelligent, what good i m doing overall ?

You are being “empowered” to take the control of your life. You can not say anymore that you are “victim of the circumstances” You can finally call things in your life that you always wanted but never dared to think is possible. Possibilities are endless, of course if one chose to do so. And this is the area I am so passionate about. It always was a puzzle to see some people being always healthy while the others always struggling with their health. It is amazing to see how rich gets richer and poor getting poorer.

The secrets: The way we think about ourselves and the limitations we put upon ourselves. It is amazing to see people believing that they are meant to suffer??? Or to be poor??? Where does it come from?? See we are being programmed on daily base and it is time to be councious about it and understand that we can let other people program us or we can take a charge and shape our life the way we want it to be.

second : the words that ULFE is 'universal' ! we use the word 'universal' almost in a bonded fashion with concepts of reiki.... what is universality ? me and you sitting in one same room, breathe same oxygen into our lungs, and yet our bodies respond differently to it... the produciton of RBCs' in your body in response to the inhaling instance might be much more than in my body... so what is universal ? something is universal only upto the moment it is not 'taken in' by us, and as soon as it becomes imbibed into our bodies, it is specific, personalized ! if something changes its form when taken a part of us, do we keep calling it universal ? it might be a naughty thought to say that ULFE is not universal but is only universally avaialbe !

I agree with you that ULFE is universal until we use it for specific purpose. Let's for the moment replace ULFE by money. So we both get the money and than I might go and get let's say Heineken and you will get something else. Similarly we will use ULFE for different purposes/needs.

I still stay with the belief that ULFE is universal for we both while in the same room can use it for different needs and of course it is universality available.

this was something i often think about when i hear the words ULFE..... and personally i dont equate reiki with ULFE... no disrespect or particular disagreement intened with anyone... i define reiki as a response to a command or request.. when we self treat, we are not channeling or taking in 'higher' amounts of ULFE, rather we are requesting Divine or our spiritual higherselves to come 'intervene' in our healing process.... this request is through symbols....symbols the work of something like 'commanding the request'.... its strange the 'intervention' or help in our healing process is taken to task through every faculty available... mental, physical, energetic, emotional, spiritual...ad infinitum...

And this is beauty of Reiki, we all can have our own definition and yet nobody is wrong. We might be using different words but at the end we might come to the same. I agree that symbols doesn't necessary bring in more reiki ….let's see if I can put it this way. What do we do if it is dark in our room? Turn the light(s) on right. But what if it is still dark and we need more light. Do we need to change power lines to get more power?? No, all it takes is to change a light built, right. So we put stronger light bulb and we have more lights. How about if symbols do just that.

and finally, reiki exists only when it is created as a response, instead of taking it as a reservoir or pool from which we would be taking our share...

This is where we respectfully disagree.

i have not practiced qi-gong in depth, but in kuji-in and QT, i have a glimpse of what is the nature of qi-gong.. i take qi-gong as 'personal energy at will'.. both qi and reiki are generated by us, the difference only that we can command qi but we cannot command reiki, we can only command the request, through symbols of course.... another difference is that qi is a power that brings about results as per our choice.. we can condense it, we can dilate it, physical augmentation, spritual elevaton, and so on... we can manifest it too (as literature says)..

Do not know anything about qi-gong. As to the Reiki Symbols I am not sure that we can separateee them from reiki so if I am using reiki symbols am I not using Reiki?

but reiki is not something that brings about these things... in its nature, reiki is the result of something already done.... reiki does not bring about things, it is the bringing about of things we call reiki

and yet for over last fifteen years I have been doing just that. Using reiki to get something of my choice.

[quote]

Resko wrote:
It brings me to think about another thing what we call breathing, particularly how come that babies breath better than the adults. Breathing is so important and yet most of the adults do not know how to do it. Besides that it keeps us alive it affects the quality of our voice and ability to talk. And finally some stop to breath and we need to restore their breathing even though the oxygen is available in the air.

if you present this observation to make an analogy with ULFE, it makes quite sense

Exactly what I was trying!

Regards,

Resko

Find Out How Learning Reiki Can Change Your Life

Hi Resko, i've been busy in some stuff lately, hence this belated visit to your post bro!

rzukic wrote:

there is a central, innate intelligence in our bodies...

Agreed. We come with some “pre-built” programs. However, let's through in the fact that we shape our reality as we grow with our own thought.

as Vincent Amador puts it 'we are, where our perception is' so our presence keeps expanding with our perception...however, i want to ask whether our perception (and hence our presence) expans so as to touch the 'outer' boundary devised by the innate intelligence, or just occasions to pass beyond it ??

Resko wrote:

and on one fine day, i get reiki initiations... okay, what do i get ? an access to the ability of 'interacting' with the ULFE that was already within me ? if i interact with something that is already pre-programmed, innately intelligent, what good i m doing overall ?

You are being “empowered” to take the control of your life. You can not say anymore that you are “victim of the circumstances”.

that is an interesting aspect...taking this view, being into reiki means that i m getting a way to achieve the optimal within myself... as you have said, babies are already at their 'optimal' within themselves, so being reiki is something like re-visiting to our true nature... where healing is always integrated...


however, my question was inclined to something slightly different than this buddy..... i wanted to say that when we self-treat or treat others, there is nothing which we do as something within our 'exlcusive control'... we treat areas, what we do, place hands on the area, somehow be mindful in the process, and wait for the results... do you hold belief that a reiki practitioner heals other at his will? i think you would not... in the end what comes out... we initiate a process, and the rest is completed from the other end... may we call that other end as the 'innate healing ability' of the client, or his sprituality, or ULFE...

this is what i put in words by saying that we command a request... and what comes out of that request... is what i call reiki.... this is slightly a different view than seeing that when we do reiki, we do something and the results are healing, harmony, etc.....


indeed our disagreement is understandable since you view reiki as a step to achieve something next, and i view reiki as the embodiment of certain results due to some commands/request issued earlier

in a way, things are not such discrete to view in isolation, tbh, but as a step towards deepening the understanding sometimes we come up with wild thoughts, which sometimes chart the course of different path for us, and sometimes give us a new version on our existing path... in the nutshell, it is always good

Resko wrote:

second : the words that ULFE is 'universal' ! we use the word 'universal' almost in a bonded fashion with concepts of reiki....

... so what is universal ? something is universal only upto the moment it is not 'taken in' by us, and as soon as it becomes imbibed into our bodies, it is specific, personalized ! if something changes its form when taken a part of us, do we keep calling it universal ? it might be a naughty thought to say that ULFE is not universal but is only universally avaialbe !

I agree with you that ULFE is universal until we use it for specific purpose. Let's for the moment replace ULFE by money. So we both get the money and than I might go and get let's say Heineken and you will get something else. Similarly we will use ULFE for different purposes/needs.

I still stay with the belief that ULFE is universal for we both while in the same room can use it for different needs and of course it is universality available.

here i feel i was unable to place on board my exact sentiment... instead of giving the oxygen example, i should have tried something better as example

reiki uses ULFE and reiki is ULFE... these are two different thoughts... and before i comment on which one of these two are more acceptable for me as a definition, i wish to know what you personally take on these two views ?

Resko wrote:

this was something i often think about when i hear the words ULFE..... and personally i dont equate reiki with ULFE... no disrespect or particular disagreement intened with anyone... i define reiki as a response to a command or request.. when we self treat, we are not channeling or taking in 'higher' amounts of ULFE, rather we are requesting Divine or our spiritual higherselves to come 'intervene' in our healing process.... this request is through symbols....symbols the work of something like 'commanding the request'.... its strange the 'intervention' or help in our healing process is taken to task through every faculty available... mental, physical, energetic, emotional, spiritual...ad infinitum...

And this is beauty of Reiki, we all can have our own definition and yet nobody is wrong. We might be using different words but at the end we might come to the same. I agree that symbols doesn't necessary bring in more reiki ….let's see if I can put it this way. What do we do if it is dark in our room? Turn the light(s) on right. But what if it is still dark and we need more light. Do we need to change power lines to get more power?? No, all it takes is to change a light built, right. So we put stronger light bulb and we have more lights. How about if symbols do just that.

the bulbs example (changing the stronger bulb, while using the same stream of electricity) was a good one


analogy of electricity with reiki can be further used in my model electricity, as we know is a difference of electrode potentials... we cannot feel electricity unless we experience it... this 'experience' might be through lighting on a bulb on it, adding some device.. or even putting an electric tester on an electricity conductor... in all these cases, we feel electricity once it 'runs through'.... this is exactly reiki... there is no reservoir or pool of reiki... reiki is instantly creatd when we experience it... this probably gives a different picture from saying that reiki is ULFE that is sort of 'always present'... reiki is always present too but as 'rei' only... it becomes reiki when rei is put to action... this explanation is the best i can to make my point of dinstinguishing reiki from other energy modalities.. or better saying, from letting reiki be included in the genus 'energy modalities'

Resko wrote:
Do not know anything about qi-gong. As to the Reiki Symbols I am not sure that we can separateee them from reiki so if I am using reiki symbols am I not using Reiki?

symbols have their outward functions that have been made 'available' to practitioners, and yet they have their 'essence' too, that is only transferred during initiations, this essence is what give rise to reiki generation, and the functions (that we use) are the things that give rise to 'boost', 'power' 'harmony', 'connection'....

this gives me some space to say that depending upon which aspect we are talking at a particular moment, symbols are themselves reiki too, and other times symbols are tools to do reiki as well.... this split is something that deepens our understanding about reiki....

and yet for over last fifteen years I have been doing just that. Using reiki to get something of my choice.

if i would take this sentencce, i may prfere for my understanding to say that 'several things have been done in the while i was reiki'

i dont know if there is a differnce between two sentences in real ?

take care bro


salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:Hi Resko, i've been busy in some stuff lately, hence this belated visit to your post bro!

rzukic wrote:

there is a central, innate intelligence in our bodies...

Agreed. We come with some “pre-built” programs. However, let's through in the fact that we shape our reality as we grow with our own thought.

as Vincent Amador puts it 'we are, where our perception is' so our presence keeps expanding with our perception...however, i want to ask whether our perception (and hence our presence) expans so as to touch the 'outer' boundary devised by the innate intelligence, or just occasions to pass beyond it ??

Resko wrote:

and on one fine day, i get reiki initiations... okay, what do i get ? an access to the ability of 'interacting' with the ULFE that was already within me ? if i interact with something that is already pre-programmed, innately intelligent, what good i m doing overall ?

You are being “empowered” to take the control of your life. You can not say anymore that you are “victim of the circumstances”.

that is an interesting aspect...taking this view, being into reiki means that i m getting a way to achieve the optimal within myself... as you have said, babies are already at their 'optimal' within themselves, so being reiki is something like re-visiting to our true nature... where healing is always integrated...


however, my question was inclined to something slightly different than this buddy..... i wanted to say that when we self-treat or treat others, there is nothing which we do as something within our 'exlcusive control'... we treat areas, what we do, place hands on the area, somehow be mindful in the process, and wait for the results... do you hold belief that a reiki practitioner heals other at his will? i think you would not... in the end what comes out... we initiate a process, and the rest is completed from the other end... may we call that other end as the 'innate healing ability' of the client, or his sprituality, or ULFE...

this is what i put in words by saying that we command a request... and what comes out of that request... is what i call reiki.... this is slightly a different view than seeing that when we do reiki, we do something and the results are healing, harmony, etc.....


indeed our disagreement is understandable since you view reiki as a step to achieve something next, and i view reiki as the embodiment of certain results due to some commands/request issued earlier

in a way, things are not such discrete to view in isolation, tbh, but as a step towards deepening the understanding sometimes we come up with wild thoughts, which sometimes chart the course of different path for us, and sometimes give us a new version on our existing path... in the nutshell, it is always good

Resko wrote:

second : the words that ULFE is 'universal' ! we use the word 'universal' almost in a bonded fashion with concepts of reiki....

... so what is universal ? something is universal only upto the moment it is not 'taken in' by us, and as soon as it becomes imbibed into our bodies, it is specific, personalized ! if something changes its form when taken a part of us, do we keep calling it universal ? it might be a naughty thought to say that ULFE is not universal but is only universally avaialbe !

I agree with you that ULFE is universal until we use it for specific purpose. Let's for the moment replace ULFE by money. So we both get the money and than I might go and get let's say Heineken and you will get something else. Similarly we will use ULFE for different purposes/needs.

I still stay with the belief that ULFE is universal for we both while in the same room can use it for different needs and of course it is universality available.

here i feel i was unable to place on board my exact sentiment... instead of giving the oxygen example, i should have tried something better as example

reiki uses ULFE and reiki is ULFE... these are two different thoughts... and before i comment on which one of these two are more acceptable for me as a definition, i wish to know what you personally take on these two views ?

Resko wrote:

this was something i often think about when i hear the words ULFE..... and personally i dont equate reiki with ULFE... no disrespect or particular disagreement intened with anyone... i define reiki as a response to a command or request.. when we self treat, we are not channeling or taking in 'higher' amounts of ULFE, rather we are requesting Divine or our spiritual higherselves to come 'intervene' in our healing process.... this request is through symbols....symbols the work of something like 'commanding the request'.... its strange the 'intervention' or help in our healing process is taken to task through every faculty available... mental, physical, energetic, emotional, spiritual...ad infinitum...

And this is beauty of Reiki, we all can have our own definition and yet nobody is wrong. We might be using different words but at the end we might come to the same. I agree that symbols doesn't necessary bring in more reiki ….let's see if I can put it this way. What do we do if it is dark in our room? Turn the light(s) on right. But what if it is still dark and we need more light. Do we need to change power lines to get more power?? No, all it takes is to change a light built, right. So we put stronger light bulb and we have more lights. How about if symbols do just that.

the bulbs example (changing the stronger bulb, while using the same stream of electricity) was a good one


analogy of electricity with reiki can be further used in my model electricity, as we know is a difference of electrode potentials... we cannot feel electricity unless we experience it... this 'experience' might be through lighting on a bulb on it, adding some device.. or even putting an electric tester on an electricity conductor... in all these cases, we feel electricity once it 'runs through'.... this is exactly reiki... there is no reservoir or pool of reiki... reiki is instantly creatd when we experience it... this probably gives a different picture from saying that reiki is ULFE that is sort of 'always present'... reiki is always present too but as 'rei' only... it becomes reiki when rei is put to action... this explanation is the best i can to make my point of dinstinguishing reiki from other energy modalities.. or better saying, from letting reiki be included in the genus 'energy modalities'

Resko wrote:
Do not know anything about qi-gong. As to the Reiki Symbols I am not sure that we can separateee them from reiki so if I am using reiki symbols am I not using Reiki?

symbols have their outward functions that have been made 'available' to practitioners, and yet they have their 'essence' too, that is only transferred during initiations, this essence is what give rise to reiki generation, and the functions (that we use) are the things that give rise to 'boost', 'power' 'harmony', 'connection'....

this gives me some space to say that depending upon which aspect we are talking at a particular moment, symbols are themselves reiki too, and other times symbols are tools to do reiki as well.... this split is something that deepens our understanding about reiki....

and yet for over last fifteen years I have been doing just that. Using reiki to get something of my choice.

if i would take this sentencce, i may prfere for my understanding to say that 'several things have been done in the while i was reiki'

i dont know if there is a differnce between two sentences in real ?

take care bro


salman

there's a lot to digest in this post
Thanks salman your postings help me review my old
thoughts.

Lambs-Wool wrote:
being reiki is something like re-visiting to our true nature... where healing is always integrated...

I feel there is much wisdom/truth in this statement, Salman, particularly when one also studies the meaning of HSZSN.

Colin wrote:

Lambs-Wool wrote:
being reiki is something like re-visiting to our true nature... where healing is always integrated...

I feel there is much wisdom/truth in this statement, Salman, particularly when one also studies the meaning of HSZSN.

thanks for the lead Dear Colin

HSZSN is a very interesting symbol... while in reiki circles we keep on repeating mantra of 'connection' 'connection' whenever we talk about HSZSN, this aspect overshadows the real meanings of the phrase or jumon... hon sha ze sho nen


in the beginning, i was of the belief that the moment i inovke HSZSN, i will be all 'connected' and then the next feeling of 'oneness' will not be any far....


however, gradual shifts in awareness suggest me that connection is a natural corollary of something else.. it is the natural outcome of correct mind, correct thought (hence the name 'hon') the correct thought does not come from the air, it is assimilated inside us, then comes to surface alongwith realization of our true nature... it is only then that we realize that we were always connected even before invoking HSZSN....


so, my views, after thinking over James info, and blending it with my feelings, suggest that HSZSN does not bring connection, rather it makes us realize our true essence, which already has an integrated connection, or something we call "oneness"


how amazingly these words correspond to the quoted words you highlighted Colin !



take care

salman

chi_solas wrote:
there's a lot to digest in this post
Thanks salman your postings help me review my old
thoughts.

i wish i remain that open when i have decades of experience like you have Bridget

you are a big inspiration!

take care

Keep shining!!



salman

HSZSN is a very interesting symbol... while in reiki circles we keep on repeating mantra of 'connection' 'connection' whenever we talk about HSZSN, this aspect overshadows the real meanings of the phrase or jumon... hon sha ze sho nen


in the beginning, i was of the belief that the moment i inovke HSZSN, i will be all 'connected' and then the next feeling of 'oneness' will not be any far....


however, gradual shifts in awareness suggest me that connection is a natural corollary of something else.. it is the natural outcome of correct mind, correct thought (hence the name 'hon') the correct thought does not come from the air, it is assimilated inside us, then comes to surface alongwith realization of our true nature... it is only then that we realize that we were always connected even before invoking HSZSN....


so, my views, after thinking over James info, and blending it with my feelings, suggest that HSZSN does not bring connection, rather it makes us realize our true essence, which already has an integrated connection, or something we call "oneness"

This is very interesting! Now it seems that our understanding of symbols is very similar if not the same. This also explains why many say that they do not have to/ do not use HSZSN and yet do absent Reiki.

Regards,

Resko

Find Out How Learning Reiki Can Change Your Life

gotta disagree Resko. A person realising their true essence might seem straightforward reading those words, very different in practice. If we get someone not initiated into Reiki in any way, and tries to do the passive absent healing as in Reiki, it'd be interesting to see what happens.

imo, a person needs to study their own intiations they recieved, to see was hszsn used, and in what context it was used, as in where it was placed. symbols being wrote, said, and palced in initiations are for very specific reasons. to do bring very specific effects.

this is easy for Reiki folks, cause we got the benefit of HSZSN sub-consciously every time we wanna absent heal. it's not as easy in non-Reiki folks (using the absent healing technqiue). there's a reason for that.

A perfect question to maybe start some thought is (for anyone interested):

Ok, so we got 4 symbols in Reiki, that start different things. but what is it that starts actual Reiki itself? what is the common denominator in all our initiations?

warmest wishes
Wayne

Lambs-Wool wrote:

chi_solas wrote:
there's a lot to digest in this post
Thanks salman your postings help me review my old
thoughts.

i wish i remain that open when i have decades of experience like you have Bridget

you are a big inspiration!

take care

Keep shining!!



salman

Is it the decades of experience
or is it the journey that helps
become more open to others? I
believe it's the journey I'm
still in the long life learning
stage and know that your style
works for you and others that
touch your life that includes me.

Milarepa wrote:

Ok, so we got 4 symbols in Reiki, that start different things. but what is it that starts actual Reiki itself? what is the common denominator in all our initiations?

yes, thats a very interesting question...

speaking about symbols, we first have to ask and study what symbols are ? per nature and and per se... as i see them, symbols are some figures, pictograms, kanji's that have beeen selected by Usui Sensei and have then been empowered by him in his specific individualized way...

of course he would not have selected 'any garbage' to do that... he must have selected something out of his culture and mystical attire, that would be already more inclined to what he wanted to do next...

so, in the most naive way, i feel to say that his 'mandate' is the common denominator to all the symbols... and, technically speaking, if that 'mandate' is the only thing required to 'generate reiki', that would be a big leap / supposition, which i dont feel qualified to make


anxiously waiting what others take on the question

take care

salman

ok, lemme rephrase slightly.

doing a Reiju, not using symbols consciously, is only reported to be temporary. so after a while, something ceases.

what makes a western level 1 initiation more permanent?

And why?

(BTW, what you said bout symbols having some prior inclination might be right, but isn't two phrases plain old sentences? then agaihn, what is a plain old sentence? is there ever such a thing?)

Milarepa wrote:ok, lemme rephrase slightly.

doing a Reiju, not using symbols consciously, is only reported to be temporary. so after a while, something ceases.

what makes a western level 1 initiation more permanent?

And why?

(BTW, what you said bout symbols having some prior inclination might be right, but isn't two phrases plain old sentences? then agaihn, what is a plain old sentence? is there ever such a thing?)

"Let there be light!"

There is a "plain old sentence" that is pretty powerful!

Milarepa wrote: what you said bout symbols having some prior inclination might be right, but isn't two phrases plain old sentences? then agaihn, what is a plain old sentence? is there ever such a thing?)

i would borrow some help from the parallel mystic systems... we (muslims) have a system of 'taa'veez'... it is like a symbols... some verses, some letters which have no apparent meanings, etc. are written on a piece of paper in a certain way, wrapped in some coating, and handed over to the person in problem... (often that person is not allowed to open and see what is written inside)...

these verses/symbols are meant to exhibit certain powers... we have number of books publicly available where there are hundreds of such combinations of such symbols, syllables, etc. which anybody can draw and thus anybody can make a 'taa'veez' but interesting thing is that none of such act would exhibit any result!!!!


a 'taa'veez' can be written and handed over by a person who has got 'permission' to do so... otherwise it is just nothing... (for sake of understanding, you can equate it with symbols and initiations)....

like taa'veez there are other verses which have a literal meanings too... such specific verses are also used for certain effects, but again by somebody who has permission to use these verses for that intended effect... otherwise, the normal meanings/effects of the verse will prevail, but not the special effects that are conditioned with those verses....


the two phrases Honshozehshonen and Daikomyo are no doubt have literal meanings which we all know, but when these phrases were selected in a specific way by Usui Sensei, their meanings/effects didnt remain the same...


this is called "empowerment" of a phrase by somebody who is first of all himself 'empowered' to do a certain act!! and we have leads to believe that Usui sensei was empowered during his Mt Kurama incident... (very significant thing to notice, that he did not see 'reiki symbols' on that particular moment, rather he saw 'reiki' and some sanskrit texts) it means it was him who later had empowered these two phrases, and the two symbols in a certain, specific way...


i just need to wash myself off the feeling/belief that CKR as handed down by Usui Sensei to reiki people, has the same thing as the CKR experienced by Japaneses folks otherwise... the belief that equates the Usui CKR with Japanese CKR, is something i have to get rid off

take care

salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:
this is called "empowerment" of a phrase by somebody who is first of all himself 'empowered' to do a certain act!! and we have leads to believe that Usui sensei was empowered during his Mt Kurama incident... (very significant thing to notice, that he did not see 'reiki symbols' on that particular moment, rather he saw 'reiki' and some sanskrit texts) it means it was him who later had empowered these two phrases, and the two symbols in a certain, specific way...


i just need to wash myself off the feeling/belief that CKR as handed down by Usui Sensei to reiki people, has the same thing as the CKR experienced by Japaneses folks otherwise... the belief that equates the Usui CKR with Japanese CKR, is something i have to get rid off

take care

salman

James has wrote on the forum about some folks possible links with CKR and certain other things. it's on his site also. if you do go to his site, always check the bottom navigation of the text you're reading, there's usually further reading. I can't help even point it out further buddy.

warmest wishes
Wayne

Colin wrote:
"Let there be light!"

There is a "plain old sentence" that is pretty powerful!

glad you made my work easy Colin

even if the phrase is that powerful (in plain old language), is it powerful (right word: capable) to grant us the initating powers within reiki ?

this was something i meant to say...


take care

salman