Non-Reiki 'uses' of reiki

Reiki mental work is of course a natural thing, when working with a human, doesn't indicate anything more than that. If you're saying self-belief & suggestion is what it's all about then psychologists use that all the time. it would be very easy to replicate, should they wish a patient displaying healing effects.

Wayne, I am not saying it is all about self-belief & suggestions but that it is extremely important to have right mind set overall no mater what we want to achieve. When it comes to healing (well people even have different opinion about what the healing is) as you know there is no single cure for all diseases.

I've not heard of this, or of anyone achieving this via such things. I havn't checked, but if you've got info on it, that's great, i'd like to see it, .

You might want to check out hypnotherapy or even NLP and see for your self what results they show.

ok, cool. You've said (intention to attune, DKM etc). So you used one symbol at least, DKM. You never drew or thought, or said any of the other symbols.

That's right. DKM for myself not student.

Any you done actually 4 Reiju one after another? Over 1 day or so?

Only that we called it attunements and it was over two days. In additionn to hand positions/work on chakras it also includess aura sweeping, breath technique, and the hands/feet are attuned as well. And students didn't have any prior Reiki experience at all.

Hey, i can send you some manuals later, in which Reiju is shown if ya want?

That would be great! Thank You!

Yes, but what are you saying is allowing us to open up & experience for the first time? suggestion, self-beleif, hence my comment.

Right. How about if I put it this way. Do you think than that reiki attunement would be equally effective if we are to force it upon somebody who reject reiki (no matter what reason)?

Regards,

Resko

rzukic wrote:

I've not heard of this, or of anyone achieving this via such things. I havn't checked, but if you've got info on it, that's great, i'd like to see it, .

You might want to check out hypnotherapy or even NLP and see for your self what results they show.

I don't need to buddy. if suggestion & self-believe is what makes Reiki practitioners do what they need to do then, unless hypnotherapy & NLP is carrying out the same process & model as Reiki Ryoho, there's no point in me looking to compare.

You did suggest that Reiki works via suggestion & self-beleive? i'd be interested in seeing such passive hands on healing that is brought about by psychologists suggestions & self-belief talk. that is, their clients doing such passive healing as in Reiki, and indeed passing it on.

rzukic wrote:

ok, cool. You've said (intention to attune, DKM etc). So you used one symbol at least, DKM. You never drew or thought, or said any of the other symbols.

That's right. DKM for myself not student.

Can i also mention, that depending on how DKM is used, a RMT can unwittenly initiate them into master level, even though it's level 1! And some do say DKM is culimination of all threee symbols.

DKM has been referred to as the empowerment symbol. but you obviously feel you yuorself don't need DKM, cause you believe it's a matter of suggestion, etc?

rzukic wrote:

Any you done actually 4 Reiju one after another? Over 1 day or so?

Only that we called it attunements and it was over two days. In additionn to hand positions/work on chakras it also includess aura sweeping, breath technique, and the hands/feet are attuned as well. And students didn't have any prior Reiki experience at all.

how you attuned feet & hands qwhen you never used symbols, what were they attuned with? sorry for all the questions, but i just want a really clear picture, if i'm to see i've been wrong about something. it's not about picking part anything you said, i'm trying to prove myself wrong.

rzukic wrote:

Yes, but what are you saying is allowing us to open up & experience for the first time? suggestion, self-beleif, hence my comment.

Right. How about if I put it this way. Do you think than that reiki attunement would be equally effective if we are to force it upon somebody who reject reiki (no matter what reason)?

it coulkdnt be effective. the person who never wanted the initiation would never use it, so it'd be useless. it's a blessing anyhow, a blessing can't be gave without permission. a spiritual blessing in particular.

and this is what i'm very suprised at. Reiju is a 'spiritual gift', that's there to give some essence of the spirituality over time, time after time. Attunment, as in denju, is the once, or, in level 1, even the four times. and it's a spiritual blessing.

can i ask somethin else? if what you done was do the exact same attunement procedure, but leave out actually using the symbols, what was going through your mind, and what exactly did you do, when you got to the parts in which you should oringinally have been placing the symbols? I presume any combination of areas of middle of head, eyes & hands.

i like looking into technical things, so thanks in advance for your answers, i wanna prove myself wrong. no sense in me keeping ideas that aren't actually fact.

warmest wishes
Wayne

I don't need to buddy. if suggestion & self-believe is what makes Reiki practitioners do what they need to do then, unless hypnotherapy & NLP is carrying out the same process & model as Reiki Ryoho, there's no point in me looking to compare.

OK. Seems that I have misunderstood your question. Thought you were asking for systems based on suggestions that are effective.

Can i see the copy of Reiju you used? Cause if you're saying there's exceptions to the rule, i wanna make clear bout it. were these students in person or distance? how many reported this also? and did they report their experience of Reiki, as in erm, flow weak, or easily sensed?

Wayne, I already mentioned several times, I never was trained to do Reiju. During my RMT training it was reiki 1 attunement and on this forum I learned that unless you use symbols than it is called Reiju. And you offered to send me copy of what Reiju was so I could compare. So I do not have copy but will go in more detail about atunement as it was thought by my RMT below.

can i ask why you done attunements without symbols? And how you attuned feet & hands qwhen you never used symbols, what were they attuned with? sorry for all the questions, but i just want a really clear picture, if i'm to see i've been wrong about something. it's not about picking part anything you said, i'm trying to prove myself wrong.

Sure Wayne. I am interested to see the difference as you are so do not worry about questions, they are more than welcome. I wouldn't say that you are wrong about anything and also I do not think that my teacher new anything about Reiju . As to why, it is because I am thought that it is the way to do reiki 1 attunement and that the symbols belong to reiki 2 attunement. I will describe the attunement process as though to me leaving the part where RMT gets ready for the attunement,aura sweeping, and breath technique.

1.RMT is behind the student, one hand above the crowne chakra (no contact) , feel the chakra and let reiki flow. Put the second hand directly above the first hand (not matter what hand is first) and let reiki flow from both hands. Your attention/feeling is in the crowne chakra and you keep this position until you feel the “opening”
2.RMT behind the student. Both hands on the top of the student's shoulder and both thumbs are at the back of the Heart Chakra. Let Reiki flow through thumbs until you feel the opening take place.
3.RMT at the side of the student (no matter what side) and one hand on 3rd eye chakra and one at medulla obloganta. Let Reiki flow until you feel the “opening”
4.RMT in front of the student, takes both student's hands (palms up) and hold them with one hand and place second hand above (no mater what hand is in what position). Let reiki flow but split it in two (like laser beams) and one into each palm chakra. Hold position until you feel the opening.
5.RMT in frontt of Student, brings both student's palms together in front of the student's heart, RMT holds both hand with his hands, targeting back of the hand chakras and let reiki flow than brings both student's hands in front of student's third eye so that his fingers (and RMT fingers as well) point to student's 3rd eye. Let energy flow through your palms into students palms and than let it exit through the fingers into student's third eye, but pay attention since this might be strong reiki flow.
6.RMT kneels in front of the students each hand covers one foot, let reiki flow and feel the opening of chakras.
So this is simply summary of the steps again leaving few steps out. I hope this will move us forward. I am looking forward for you reply to see how this is different from Reiju.

Regards,

Resko

hey Wayne i m also looking forward that how the attunements set Resko said, differs from Reiju, and also how does it differ from the attunements with symbols (speaking about level one)...

a sidenote Resko : the attunement process you have described focuses all the time on 'opening up' of chakras/channels...may it be heart, third eye, hands or feet.... any thought over how this thing 'opening up' works actually ?


some possible thoughts :

.....1.....an RMT opens up the channels of student by his intent, that is backed by his ability as RMT, and that ability is finally backed up by his empowerment through DKM.

....2.....an RMT opens up the channels of student by giving a full-punch reiki flow.. that is backed by his ability to do so, since as he is a master, he can give extraordinary amounts of reiki.

....3....an RMT creates a space by his very high level of allowing/expectation for the event to happen, so the attunement of the student is just a result of a 'reciprocity' to that highly resonant space/allowance/field.


....4... none of above.


the discussion between you and Wayne is turning very interesting and informative.... it is helping me a lot to starighten my concepts congrats!!



take care

salman

rzukic wrote:

Wayne, I already mentioned several times, I never was trained to do Reiju. During my RMT training it was reiki 1 attunement and on this forum I learned that unless you use symbols than it is called Reiju. And you offered to send me copy of what Reiju was so I could compare. So I do not have copy but will go in more detail about atunement as it was thought by my RMT below.

can i ask why you done attunements without symbols? And how you attuned feet & hands qwhen you never used symbols, what were they attuned with? sorry for all the questions, but i just want a really clear picture, if i'm to see i've been wrong about something. it's not about picking part anything you said, i'm trying to prove myself wrong.

Sure Wayne. I am interested to see the difference as you are so do not worry about questions, they are more than welcome. I wouldn't say that you are wrong about anything and also I do not think that my teacher new anything about Reiju . As to why, it is because I am thought that it is the way to do reiki 1 attunement and that the symbols belong to reiki 2 attunement. I will describe the attunement process as though to me leaving the part where RMT gets ready for the attunement,aura sweeping, and breath technique.

1.RMT is behind the student, one hand above the crowne chakra (no contact) , feel the chakra and let reiki flow. Put the second hand directly above the first hand (not matter what hand is first) and let reiki flow from both hands. Your attention/feeling is in the crowne chakra and you keep this position until you feel the “opening”
2.RMT behind the student. Both hands on the top of the student's shoulder and both thumbs are at the back of the Heart Chakra. Let Reiki flow through thumbs until you feel the opening take place.
3.RMT at the side of the student (no matter what side) and one hand on 3rd eye chakra and one at medulla obloganta. Let Reiki flow until you feel the “opening”
4.RMT in front of the student, takes both student's hands (palms up) and hold them with one hand and place second hand above (no mater what hand is in what position). Let reiki flow but split it in two (like laser beams) and one into each palm chakra. Hold position until you feel the opening.
5.RMT in frontt of Student, brings both student's palms together in front of the student's heart, RMT holds both hand with his hands, targeting back of the hand chakras and let reiki flow than brings both student's hands in front of student's third eye so that his fingers (and RMT fingers as well) point to student's 3rd eye. Let energy flow through your palms into students palms and than let it exit through the fingers into student's third eye, but pay attention since this might be strong reiki flow.
6.RMT kneels in front of the students each hand covers one foot, let reiki flow and feel the opening of chakras.
So this is simply summary of the steps again leaving few steps out. I hope this will move us forward. I am looking forward for you reply to see how this is different from Reiju.

Hiya Resko,
thanks for that! I never said, or even implied you done anything different from ny Reiju (cause i of course never knew). I was interested in seeing your process cause you said it was Reiju, but you called it attunements in class (if i remember) so that usually implies denju symbol attunements. This was why i wanted to be exact in our chat, .

You done everything right for a Reiju really. Reiju variations are like attunements. Can i ask you another question? It's not really about you, but general one. Lossley, your Reiju could be said to be like some others, so others do this kind of thing ok. Also use DKM at start. So we're placing our hands over folks body parts, and Reiki is doing it's thing, even beaming it.

Can you see that it's just like an ordinary treatment? Except you've used a symbol yourself already? that it's the DKM which makes it what it is.

BTW, Reiju can be used with absolutely no symbol at all, that is, no DKM. Cause Reiju is using no symbols, and if none are used, ime (and others) it's temporary.

warmest wishes
Wayne

Lambs-Wool wrote:hey Wayne i m also looking forward that how the attunements set Resko said, differs from Reiju, and also how does it differ from the attunements with symbols (speaking about level one)...

a sidenote Resko : the attunement process you have described focuses all the time on 'opening up' of chakras/channels...may it be heart, third eye, hands or feet.... any thought over how this thing 'opening up' works actually ?


some possible thoughts :

.....1.....an RMT opens up the channels of student by his intent, that is backed by his ability as RMT, and that ability is finally backed up by his empowerment through DKM.

....2.....an RMT opens up the channels of student by giving a full-punch reiki flow.. that is backed by his ability to do so, since as he is a master, he can give extraordinary amounts of reiki.

....3....an RMT creates a space by his very high level of allowing/expectation for the event to happen, so the attunement of the student is just a result of a 'reciprocity' to that highly resonant space/allowance/field.


....4... none of above.


the discussion between you and Wayne is turning very interesting and informative.... it is helping me a lot to starighten my concepts congrats!!



take care

salman

Hi Salman,

I think it is the first option (Intent + DKM)

Regards,

Resko

Hiya Resko,
thanks for that! I never said, or even implied you done anything different from ny Reiju (cause i of course never knew). I was interested in seeing your process cause you said it was Reiju, but you called it attunements in class (if i remember) so that usually implies denju symbol attunements. This was why i wanted to be exact in our chat, .

You done everything right for a Reiju really. Reiju variations are like attunements. Can i ask you another question? It's not really about you, but general one. Lossley, your Reiju could be said to be like some others, so others do this kind of thing ok. Also use DKM at start. So we're placing our hands over folks body parts, and Reiki is doing it's thing, even beaming it.

Can you see that it's just like an ordinary treatment? Except you've used a symbol yourself already? that it's the DKM which makes it what it is.

BTW, Reiju can be used with absolutely no symbol at all, that is, no DKM. Cause Reiju is using no symbols, and if none are used, ime (and others) it's temporary.

Hi Wayne,

It was me who thought it must be different for I never heard for it. Thanks for clarification. It is interesting that my teacher never mentioned this and I think that he never new about it as well. Could you please give me some time-line when did West learn about Reiju so I can sort this out.

Thank You.

Regards,

Resko

i'm thinking it was from the emergence of the Reiki researchers.

Doi was trained by Mieko Mitsui, of Barbera Rays version of Usui Shiki Ryoho. He's also trained in other energy things. He claims that the got the version of Reiju by the awareness of the body movements around his own Gakkai Reiju (i think).

Since then, others have came up with some Reiju. Check on James' site, he's actually found some early Reiju, and he's prob the one person i'd doubt least. mainly cause he never asks for cash for his info, like others. Though folks can donate voluntary to animal causes.

Anyhow, since then folks have really done what you yourself did, experimented, and integrated some personal knowledge. So Reiju can look anything like a normal attunement, to even resembling some seated treatments. It's good to experiment anyhow, it's how we progress, .

Actual dates, erm. I think hiroshi came about in the late 1990's. Though first mention of Hikkei is prob from Arjava Peter, in Reiki fire maybe. So he wouldda mentioned Reiju then also? Doi was one of the first, if not they first to provide a version i think.

BTW, i've been gathering the Reiju things. I'd a problem with my adboe openuint it today, which is why it's taking longer to get to you. I might have it fixed now. Plus, i got the avtual dvd of it being carried out, i can send you on yahoo messenger, or skype preferably. if you want?

warmest wishes
Wayne

That would be great. My skype user name is resko.zukic

Thank You.

Regards,

Resko

i gotta go get kids form school, if you're still on in bout 45 mins ot an hour we can hook up then. if you cant' be around we can do it next time