Non-Reiki 'uses' of reiki

Colin wrote:

Milarepa wrote:ok, lemme rephrase slightly.

doing a Reiju, not using symbols consciously, is only reported to be temporary. so after a while, something ceases.

what makes a western level 1 initiation more permanent?

And why?

(BTW, what you said bout symbols having some prior inclination might be right, but isn't two phrases plain old sentences? then agaihn, what is a plain old sentence? is there ever such a thing?)

"Let there be light!"

There is a "plain old sentence" that is pretty powerful!

what bout 'i love you'?

maybe you wouldda liked to hear that old song... 'we're leav-in, on a jet plane... dunno when i'll be back again...' hehe.

Colin wrote:"Let there be light!"

There is a "plain old sentence" that is pretty powerful!

Rachel Naomi Remen's grandfather was a cabalistic rabbi. In the book My Grandfather's Blessings, she wrote about the following experience with her grandfather, lighting a menorah when she was young and afraid of the dark.
Her grandfather told her that "God's menorah is made of people, not candles." And then he explained further:
"The story of Hannukah says that God's light burns in the darkness even without oil, and it is so,' said my grandfather. 'That is one of the miracles of the light. But there is more. There is a place in everyone that can carry the light. God has made us this way. When God says 'LET THERE BE LIGHT,' he is speaking to us personally, Neshum-le. He is telling us what is possible, how we might choose to live. But one candle does not do much in the darkness. God has not only given us the chance to carry the light, he has made it possible for us to kindle and strengthen the light in one another, passing the light along. This is the way that God's light will shine forever in this world.'"

Bruce

This is very interesting! Now it seems that our understanding of symbols is very similar if not the same. This also explains why many say that they do not have to/ do not use HSZSN and yet do absent Reiki.

[quote]

Milarepa wrote:gotta disagree Resko. A person realising their true essence might seem straightforward reading those words, very different in practice. If we get someone not initiated into Reiki in any way, and tries to do the passive absent healing as in Reiki, it'd be interesting to see what happens.

No wonder you do for what I meant to say is that This also explains why many RMT say that they do not have to/ do not use HSZSN and yet do absent Reiki

A perfect question to maybe start some thought is (for anyone interested):

Ok, so we got 4 symbols in Reiki, that start different things. but what is it that starts actual Reiki itself? what is the common denominator in all our initiations?

This is indeed excellent question and I am very interested to hear/learn more. However, I have noticed that my opinion is quite different than most of the members here and before I take stand on this I want to make sure that it is not perceived as disrespectful or in any way offensive since this is not what I am here for. I am genuinely interested in the topic and to hear different points of view.

And in order to make it easier for all of you (who read this) I think it is good idea to give short summary of “where I am coming from”

As a “school kid” I was reading Sigmund Freud and enjoyed very much Psychology classes. During one class where we talked about how social environment influences/shapes our behavior we looked into follow case study. It was about young girl who grew up in the family with abusive father who was disrespecting his wife and even beating her.

So young girl grew up and got married. But her husband was opposite to her father. He respected her and never yelled at her. However, she didn't feel loved. She didn't feel “at home” and eventually divorced and married new guy who was just as her father and she was very happy.

During our discussion we all agreed that first husband was better but she felt it was the other way around because she was programmed that it is ok for husband to beat his wife. And I asked question what made everybody laugh and I wondered why? I asked if she was programmed to believe something wouldn't it be possible to re-program her mind.

Louise Hay and her positive thinking/affirmation had great value for me. However, it was hard to find a way to integrate it or to reprogram (my) mind. I wanted to learn more about affirmations and was little bit disappointed with my progress. I found some recommendations that in order for our mind to accept new affirmation we should repeat it daily from 3,000-5,000!! It didn't work for me. It was just very time consuming and also since it was done in Beta state of mind it did create a lot of resistance for our Ego doesn't like changes.

I still didn't' give up on the idea that affirmation are good tool to reprogram our mind. The next thing I looked into was hypnoses. And this was truly amazing. In one study case they gave ice cubes to subject person but gave suggestion that it was very hot object and his body responded with the blisters??? This is totally mind blowing!! It clearly shows that it is not the reality but our perception of reality that was in work here.

I was fortunate enough to find about Autogenic Training which is great way to address our sub-conscious and create desired changes.

Finally, I learned about reiki and was fascinated with the mental training (this will put more light on some of my previous posts about mental treatment) as thought in level 2.

reiki uses ULFE and reiki is ULFE... these are two different thoughts... and before i comment on which one of these two are more acceptable for me as a definition, i wish to know what you personally take on these two views ?

As I already mentioned for me Reiki is universal, spiritually conscious life force energy that energies and animates all living things. When I say universal I mean, it is everywhere, it is universally accessible universally applicable, universally available. Something that has so many and yet no name. To limit ULFE to one single frequency/vibration wouldn't make much sense for it wouldn't be universal any more. It could take any frequency we want/need it to take/be.

As a Reiki Teachers we have a choice to make as to how we going to go about teaching. The options are to use very complicated way and be the last man standing or to find simple way to teach. I believe that we are fortunate enough that Dr. Usui chose the simple way.

What I mean by this?

Well let's for the moment think about what would we do if our task was to think/experience ...let's say the frequencies of 384-482THz. Would this be an easy task to do? But how about if we use color red as reference point. It is much easier now. Isn't it?
In order for us to be able to experience different aspect of Reiki Dr. Usui gave us Reiki Symbols. They are imprinted in our nervous system and our subconscious mind and as such are direct link between our mind and ULFE (Reiki).

Now, this is where we differ in opinion mostly. I think that before this happens the symbols itself do not have any power (in other words we gave the power to the symbols) while most of you think/believe that Dr. Usui empowered symbols.

Let's for the moment please just asume that there was no such empowerment at all but we believe that there was. As in above exmaple when mind believed that the subject person was holding hot object in hand, the body responded with the blister, could we expect the same to happen in this case as well? So the question is than does it really matter if there was such an empowerment or not?

I believe that Dr. Usui was aware of this and he used this “trick” to show us the obvious what we couldn't see for ouselfe. That we do have a power. I believe that Dr. Usui was aware that it was important that we only make one positive experience with Reiki/symbols and our belief would become the “Knowledge” ( For me the belief and the knowledge are not the same. The best belief is still not the knowledge) as our reference point

Our journey trough the Reiki levels is very interesting one. In the level 1 we are about to experience the aspect of not-doing. But with intention to let things happen. Than in level two we are experiencing the aspect of doing. We are very active with symbols and this is when we meet (and hopefully overcome) our ego and finally in the level 3 we go back to the beginning, back to not-doing but now knowing that we can take our selves out of the way and let the right things happen.

analogy of electricity with reiki can be further used in my model electricity, as we know is a difference of electrode potentials... we cannot feel electricity unless we experience it... this 'experience' might be through lighting on a bulb on it, adding some device.. or even putting an electric tester on an electricity conductor... in all these cases, we feel electricity once it 'runs through'.... this is exactly reiki... there is no reservoir or pool of reiki...

I agree. However, just because we migh fail to turn on the light switch or chose to live in dark doesn't prove that there is no electricity, does it?

as Vincent Amador puts it 'we are, where our perception is' so our presence keeps expanding with our perception...however, i want to ask whether our perception (and hence our presence) expans so as to touch the 'outer' boundary devised by the innate intelligence, or just occasions to pass beyond it ??

Very interesting question! However, one has first to agree that such boundary does exist and if so where is it set and more importantly why. Is it meant to be our safety net (to prevent that we experience something before we are ready to experience it) or is it to limit us in our grow?

A perfect question to maybe start some thought is (for anyone interested):

Ok, so we got 4 symbols in Reiki, that start different things. but what is it that starts actual Reiki itself? what is the common denominator in all our initiations?

And finally to (attempt to ) answer the question: How about: It is Us and our intention?

Regards,

Resko

Find Out How Learning Reiki Can Change Your Life.

Resko, thanks for all the wonderful details
of how you got involved in the case study.
It is a well known fact that when folks get
one divorce after another. It's because they
marry into the same baggage they just left.
I found it interesting that the woman you
spoke of did the reverse.

People have been known to walk on hot coals
lie on a bed of sharp nails because they have
trained their mind to do so. If they began to
doubt it half way across the bed of coals they
would end up getting burned.

I grew up immersed in religious rituals and I
have out grown them. When I entered the world
of Reiki I saw that the rituals and symbols had
the same value as those of the religious ones that
I longer use. I see them as tools to focus and
create an environment where healing can happen.

Joseph Murphy Ph.D D.D talks about our mind being
our most precious possession. It is always with us
and we have to learn how to use it. Our subconscious
mind will respond to our belief

rzukic wrote:

This is indeed excellent question and I am very interested to hear/learn more. However, I have noticed that my opinion is quite different than most of the members here and before I take stand on this I want to make sure that it is not perceived as disrespectful or in any way offensive since this is not what I am here for. I am genuinely interested in the topic and to hear different points of view.

Resko, you wouldn't be offensive. In fact, if your views aren't what everyone else thinks you're especially welcome here. THe forum is all about out-of-the-box thinking, so you're a very welcome asset buddy!

rzukic wrote:
Let's for the moment please just asume that there was no such empowerment at all but we believe that there was. As in above exmaple when mind believed that the subject person was holding hot object in hand, the body responded with the blister, could we expect the same to happen in this case as well? So the question is than does it really matter if there was such an empowerment or not?

I believe that Dr. Usui was aware of this and he used this “trick” to show us the obvious what we couldn't see for ouselfe. That we do have a power. I believe that Dr. Usui was aware that it was important that we only make one positive experience with Reiki/symbols and our belief would become the “Knowledge” ( For me the belief and the knowledge are not the same. The best belief is still not the knowledge) as our reference point

This is definitely plausible. Have you any idea why Usui sensei wouldn't have empowered the symbols? Do you think he couldn't have the ability? If so, why?

What is being passed on in initiation? A sub-conscious suggestion? If that's the case, in our modern world, some model such as Reiki, in all it's passivity, would be much more commonly re-produced. I havn't checked this throughoughly, but is it the case?

what do you think happens in level 1? when no symbols are shown, yet Reiki is experienced. I know for me, i had the training out of personal emergency, i wasn't clear at all what Reiki was, just some kinda healing. I never knew how it worked, anything like that, and still it was easy. I'm trying to think along your lines of when the suggestions come into play, and how an ordinary RMT can do such a thing unwittenly. It has top be powerful, cause some folks even teach via distance, with a few emails.

rzukic wrote:
And finally to (attempt to ) answer the question: How about: It is Us and our intention?

i don't beleive so. My intention & myself isn't what starts Reiki. I can pick a stranger in the street and even if i hypnotised them, i don't beleive they'd be able to produce the effect of Reiki. Though that'd be an interesting test. there's something, well there's more than one thing in the level 1 initiation that is shared.

warmest wishes
Wayne

Thank You Wayne! I appreciate it.

This is already second time I didn't express myself clearly.

i don't beleive so. My intention & myself isn't what starts Reiki. I can pick a stranger in the street and even if i hypnotised them, i don't beleive they'd be able to produce the effect of Reiki. Though that'd be an interesting test. there's something, well there's more than one thing in the level 1 initiation that is shared.

When I said it is us & our intention I didn't meant us as RTM but us a person who has intention to get initiation or to get attuned by you. I am expecting you to attune me into the secret and I am ready for it. So I make your “job” much easier.

Will respond in more details but got to go to work now :-)) Yeah I am the lucky one who works on Sunday.

Regards,

Resko

no probs Resko, looking forward to your views buddy!

Bruce wrote:

Colin wrote:"Let there be light!"

When God says 'LET THERE BE LIGHT,' he is speaking to us personally, Neshum-le. He is telling us what is possible, how we might choose to live. But one candle does not do much in the darkness. God has not only given us the chance to carry the light, he has made it possible for us to kindle and strengthen the light in one another, passing the light along. This is the way that God's light will shine forever in this world.'"

Bruce

and what if we see Usui Sensei to be one of some selected torch bearers (and how proud we should feel that in a way we, as lineage bearers, are also included ! )

i enjoyed reading all this Bruce !


take care

salman

hi Resko

although you and me come with different views about reiki, but this does not allow me to paint a exclusive picture that mine (or ours) is the best... by all means, i attach deep request to what you say here...and seeing how respectful you are when you voice a disgareement, it just makes me bow to the inner wisdom that speaks inside you... you are all the way welcome bro...

And in order to make it easier for all of you (who read this) I think it is good idea to give short summary of “where I am coming from”

indeed, i like this approach so very much you have made us all 'included'

As a “school kid” I was reading Sigmund Freud and enjoyed very much Psychology classes.

in the very beginning, i shifted my liking towards Jung over Freud maybe it was something being woven from that initial days that make me so much fan of HSZSN now... the universal consciousness concept!

Louise Hay and her positive thinking/affirmation had great value for me. However, it was hard to find a way to integrate it or to reprogram (my) mind....... It was just very time consuming and also since it was done in Beta state of mind it did create a lot of resistance for our Ego doesn't like changes.

i know i m no body to pass any judgement since i have no formal degree in psychology, but personally i feel that auto-suggestions that take a repititive element as their only tool dont hold good in the end... for me, i wonder if it is just equal to laying a new carpet over my rotten out carpet... or applying a new coat of nail polish without scratching the old one..

although i m not fond of Frued, but i appreciate the working logic in his psychoanalysis method... in order to repgrom us, we might first have to dig deep, in hihg-candle-power concscious light, that in which way we were programmed initially, something that now we want to change... it is very painful, very nerve shattering... but once this phase is over, something very comfy comes around...

I still didn't' give up on the idea that affirmation are good tool to reprogram our mind.

yes, agreed, but there is a right time to use this power... (please see this in light of my previous analogy of coatings over coatings...)

The next thing I looked into was hypnoses. And this was truly amazing.

self-hypnosis has so many restrictions.. for example, in schizopherenic patients, self-hypnosis and auto-suggestions sometimes prove highly fatal...

i feel that if somebody has the 'realization' that he needs a re-programming, the best thing is to invigorate the 'will power' in general (without specific intent of reprogramming), and once that is restored, the 'realization' is itself the highly effective catalyst towards that objective..

affirmations, are sometimes used by psychiatrists and mind scientists to create 'will-power' or better saying, initially for improving concentration... but i wonder why not use other effective methods and to save the affirmations power for the right time ?

In one study case they gave ice cubes to subject person but gave suggestion that it was very hot object and his body responded with the blisters??? This is totally mind blowing!! It clearly shows that it is not the reality but our perception of reality that was in work here.

well, with due respect buddy, i have lost interest in these instances reality does not exists in our perception only, but it has an all round objective presence, that is somehow feeded by mass consciousness and public thought too... our perception shapes our reality, that is often said, and is highly ture as well, but this phrase is qualified with many other things..


light and darkness, fragrance and odours, hot and cold, dimm and loud, these all superlatives exists sicne our physical senses operate on the principles of relativity... since it has been built up by nature in that way... if a blind buddy says that there is no existence of light (and of darkness), this is since he is bound to feel so, so this can be, but only his reality, when this would be discussed generally on-board, it will hold little merit... so something we call reality when it has somehow a consensus of at least some people, otherwise it is times very much difficult to distinguish self-created realities and hallucination...


might be, i m not sure, that our ego is very highly satisfied when we feel that we can shape our realities ! but the same has to be bounded within mass-objectivity, so that a blanced mind goes well hands in hand with a liberal view of believing in endless possibilities !

I was fortunate enough to find about Autogenic Training which is great way to address our sub-conscious and create desired changes.

Finally, I learned about reiki and was fascinated with the mental training (this will put more light on some of my previous posts about mental treatment) as thought in level 2.

to let go is sometimes as necessary as 'be in command' is ! reiki, i see this way, teaches us more to 'let go' instead of 'becoming the commander of the episodes'

let me tell you an interesting story... in initial days, i came to treat a little child who had kidneys problem, and who was hallucinated (as per one view) and was under 'demonic possession' (as per another view)...

i was aware of his both problems, physical and mental... over the time that he used coming over to me for treatments.. not only his kidneys got well, but he got rid of his mental problems along the way even when i didnt conciously attend to his mental problems even for a day...

experiment sake, there is no harm in making reiki put to different tests, to different what-if scenarios, but real jewel of reiki is more in the process of letting things happen their own way... this ties in with my view that when we do reiki we initiate a request, and dont shape up realities, since that process invariably involves our ego often, and this is something reiki teaches us to control... the importance of gokai also rests within the same foundations buddy...

To limit ULFE to one single frequency/vibration wouldn't make much sense for it wouldn't be universal any more. It could take any frequency we want/need it to take/be.

and i put these words by saying that reiki has no frequency at all, multipilicities arise since it is the multicipilicity of the client/subject that gives rise to 'flavours' of energies/experinces....

As a Reiki Teachers we have a choice to make as to how we going to go about teaching.

that is indeed a very very big question since definition of reiki changes with the level of the student.. and the doctrine of honesty comes in dispute when we switch to a different definition since a student has shifted to a higher level within reiki...

take care

Lambs-Wool wrote: i know i m no body to pass any judgement since i have no formal degree in psychology, but personally i feel that auto-suggestions that take a repititive element as their only tool dont hold good in the end... for me, i wonder if it is just equal to laying a new carpet over my rotten out carpet... or applying a new coat of nail polish without scratching the old one..

My personal experience of auto-suggestion
has been successful in reversing me back
to good health. Heterosuggestion is
another issue. I'm taken with your anology
of putting a new carpet on top of a rotten
carpet. I would say that old habits that
cause the rottening have to be taken care of
first before laying down the new.

self-hypnosis has so many restrictions.. for example, in schizopherenic patients, self-hypnosis and auto-suggestions sometimes prove highly fatal...

This gets into clinical work and Reiki folks
should not be crossing over into the medical
world unless they are certified as a psychiatrist
or doctor of medicine.

heterosuggestion, is that for gays or something so they try something new?

Milarepa wrote:heterosuggestion, is that for gays or something so they try something new?

I checked my spelling it means
suggestion from another person. Political
creeds,religious beliefs,cultural customs
perpetuate themselves through the power of
heterosuggestion.

Autosuggestion has nothing to do with cars
but if you give your self the wrong message
as in self talk you could be in trouble. just
one more for the road

chi_solas wrote:

Autosuggestion has nothing to do with cars
but if you give your self the wrong message
as in self talk you could be in trouble. just
one more for the road

well that's a good point! you gave me a good chuckle there, thanks for that!

Milarepa wrote:heterosuggestion, is that for gays or something so they try something new?

you import that thought whenever you hear the word Hetro ??

omg, i didnt know you are so sick minded

take care!

hehe, no i don't always think of sex! It's just i wasn't familiar with the term heterosuggestion, so thought i'd make a joke bout my ignorance!

Milarepa wrote:hehe, no i don't always think of sex! It's just i wasn't familiar with the term heterosuggestion, so thought i'd make a joke bout my ignorance!

I've been there when a new term shows up
and look for the root word to find a
meaning. In today's world of computers
cookie takes on a different meaning.

now that we've spoke about it, what is heterosuggestion? I'm assuming it's something to do with hypnosis?

Milarepa wrote:now that we've spoke about it, what is heterosuggestion? I'm assuming it's something to do with hypnosis?

Its like a tool to control others.
It can be a political slogan that
you attach yourself to, a prayer,
Our Father Who Art in Heaven. The
negative part of heterosuggestion
can come from, you can't, You'll
never amount to anything. you
haven't got a chance, your all wrong,
its no use. life is an endless grind.

It's part of the learned self talk that
directs you onto certain paths.

Milarepa wrote:heterosuggestion, is that for gays or something so they try something new?

This is definitely plausible. Have you any idea why Usui sensei wouldn't have empowered the symbols? Do you think he couldn't have the ability? If so, why?

IMO because he didn't have any need to do so and I believe he was more interested in showing us how to “empower” ourselves than to empower the symbol. It was so clear for him that we have all what it takes except for the understanding/belief that we do have it. As they say “ The biggest secrets are kept in the plain sight”. And he showed us how to discover/experience it for ourselves.

As to the symbols he probably would have foreseen the possibility that people might not be able to remember the correct way of writing symbols and if certain symbol is empowered than to call upon that power one would have to use exactly the same symbol.

What is being passed on in initiation? A sub-conscious suggestion? If that's the case, in our modern world, some model such as Reiki, in all it's passivity, would be much more commonly re-produced. I havn't checked this throughoughly, but is it the case?

I am not sure if we can call it sub-conscious suggestion (maybe in the way we could) but most certainly sub-conscious is addressed and it is assured that it is safe for us to open up and experience the reiki/ulfe/divine/god or what ever word we might use. It seems that ritual(s) have great power to influence the subconscious mind.

what do you think happens in level 1? when no symbols are shown, yet Reiki is experienced. I know for me, i had the training out of personal emergency, i wasn't clear at all what Reiki was, just some kinda healing. I never knew how it worked, anything like that, and still it was easy. I'm trying to think along your lines of when the suggestions come into play, and how an ordinary RMT can do such a thing unwittenly. It has top be powerful, cause some folks even teach via distance, with a few emails.

When we open up and experience reiki for first time the new neurons-connection is established/fired up that will memorize/organize all experience related to this. The direct link is established between our mind and reiki so all it takes to experience reiki again is to have the intention (click that link and we are there instantly)

I was thought reiki 1 and I was teaching reiki one without any symbols and nobody from my students have ever “lost reiki” as some are suggesting it will happen. Now it makes me think that it might be possiblee that some people who, when attuned to reiki one, were told that it is only temporarily might indeed close for reiki experience. This again, probably would imply that subconscious mind was programmed to do so.

As we experience reiki more and more our “reiki belief” transforms into “reiki knowledge” and we do not have slightest doubt about it just as we do not doubt that sun will rise in the morning. And this is what makes absent attunements possible. I know it works for I was on both side of equation. I did attunements on distance and I received attunements as well so it works.

I even took it to the next level ( If I may use this term) and few days ago did a self attunement and in one of my next post I will share my experience.

Regards,

Resko

rzukic wrote:

IMO because he didn't have any need to do so and I believe he was more interested in showing us how to “empower” ourselves than to empower the symbol. It was so clear for him that we have all what it takes except for the understanding/belief that we do have it. As they say “ The biggest secrets are kept in the plain sight”. And he showed us how to discover/experience it for ourselves.

ok cool. But what is it making you come to this decision bout Usui sensei? You're saying he didn't have any need to empower the symbols? Do you not think passing on some of his own ability/expereince is a reason to empower the symbols?

You know it was years of study, some of it intense, even life-threatening, that culiminated in his unique experience? Why do you think he would then think it is so easy for all others to experience. Was he a stranger to such self-belief talk? This is a man who travelled the world, studied sacred texts intensely, took part in mystical practices you & i would never have the patience or will to.

If all it took was suggestion of any kind, and self-belief, there would surely be more systems like Reiki around the world. I mean, psychologists of one kind or another would be knocking out healing systems like mad surely.

rzukic wrote:
As to the symbols he probably would have foreseen the possibility that people might not be able to remember the correct way of writing symbols and if certain symbol is empowered than to call upon that power one would have to use exactly the same symbol.

I doubt he would have foresaw it Resko. Well, he might have had foresight. Remember he never tried to spread it throughout the world, and taugth many level 1, but fewer went to level 2. Indicating strongly, that only certain desirable students would progress. Students that were'nt even able to remember how to write 4 symbols i'm taking an educated guess (going by the way spirutual paths in Japan were), that he wouldn't have taught such people.

Though this goes to the nature of spiritual empowerments in lineage. PArticularly level 3 folks. Once we recieve the spiritual blessing, we can still create responses even if i used a nazi swastika. This is cause if i draw the nazi swastika consciously i could be thinking of, say, CKR. sub-consciously i activate that. Now, if my own teacher somehow wrote the nazi swastika when she should have initiatied me into CKR, what happens is lineage comes into play. Cause she meant it to be CKR, an essence of what her own teachers CKR would have been passed down, so when my own teacher initiated me wrongly with a swastika she was still invoking an essence of CKR. This is what's meant in part by spiritual lineage. imo. it's why lineage is important. So, we can use whatever symbol we want, if we mean to write a ckr, we still activate inside either it, or essence. if we creaate a brand new symbol, then we've used our own spirituality, and part of all our lineage, by virtue of DKM, to do this. Cause we're Master level, we've been gave the spiritual permission.

I dunno if that's technical for anyone else reading, read it a few times, but it's all to do with lineage, and what's being passed down.

rzukic wrote:
When we open up and experience reiki for first time the new neurons-connection is established/fired up that will memorize/organize all experience related to this. The direct link is established between our mind and reiki so all it takes to experience reiki again is to have the intention (click that link and we are there instantly)

I was thought reiki 1 and I was teaching reiki one without any symbols and nobody from my students have ever “lost reiki” as some are suggesting it will happen. Now it makes me think that it might be possiblee that some people who, when attuned to reiki one, were told that it is only temporarily might indeed close for reiki experience. This again, probably would imply that subconscious mind was programmed to do so.

What's said, (and i tested this myself, so you might wanna try also) is that Reiju, initiation without without symbols doesn't hold permanent. There's a marked difference after time, and mostly the Reiju student would need more Reiju. Are you saying you initiated folks with no prior Reiki attunmenets at all, and in those initiations you never used any symbols, and these folks have had only the one Reiju and they still experience Reiki as strong as ever? If so, how long has this been? I've never experienced this, and not spoek with anyone esle who did. it's important we're clear about the conditions, if you're saying otherwise.

If all it takes is a suggestion, for a direct link in our mind, then surely in distant initiaitons we don't even need to carry it out (since all it needs is student to beleive we have), and they'll be attuned. what ya think bout that? .

rzukic wrote:
As we experience reiki more and more our “reiki belief” transforms into “reiki knowledge” and we do not have slightest doubt about it just as we do not doubt that sun will rise in the morning. And this is what makes absent attunements possible. I know it works for I was on both side of equation. I did attunements on distance and I received attunements as well so it works.

Me too, i was on both ends. I feel the reason distance attunements works is cause i write HSZSN, it's why i write it. Have you used HSZSN in distance attunements? If so, why? Sorry for the direct questions buddy, you're view is a new one to me, so i gotta see if it answers my questions before i say to myself he's got a point. It's only for my personal thoughts, i'll not be reporting back here! .

rzukic wrote:
I even took it to the next level ( If I may use this term) and few days ago did a self attunement and in one of my next post I will share my experience.

Look forward to it buddy, but are you sure you're not auto-suggesting yourself? How come you self-attuned, when you already attuned?

warmest wishes
Wayne

Why do you think he would then think it is so easy for all others to experience.

Because he made it so easy for all others to experience.

Was he a stranger to such self-belief talk?

You are right. I do not think that he was a stranger. Isn't he told to have said: “First heal the spirit and than heal the body” and he also gave us five precepts. So, no he wasn't stranger to self-belief talk.

If all it took was suggestion of any kind, and self-belief, there would surely be more systems like Reiki around the world. I mean, psychologists of one kind or another would be knocking out healing systems like mad surely.

Wayne, nobody is talking here about inventing new healing system but rather about how to integrate this one into daily life. It wasn't me who came up with reiki mental treatment but the fact that there is reiki mental treatment means that system founder thought it was important. Wanting to explore it isn't sin by all means.

Students that were'nt even able to remember how to write 4 symbols i'm taking an educated guess (going by the way spirutual paths in Japan were), that he wouldn't have taught such people.

Agreed. I also believe that not only Dr. Usui but also the founders of other systems should be aware that the system will be “alive” after them and will spread all over the world.

This is cause if i draw the nazi swastika consciously i could be thinking of, say, CKR. sub-consciously i activate that.

Are you saying that IT IS important what we think subconsciously and that it will affect the outcome (even in this extreme case). It is interesting that you give this example for if we go by understanding that symbols have own power (which as you know I do not think so) than it is to assume that swastika would have some power as well but I am glad that you find that our subconscious thinking would be more powerful.

Are you saying you initiated folks with no prior Reiki attunmenets at all, and in those initiations you never used any symbols, and these folks have had only the one Reiju and they still experience Reiki as strong as ever? If so, how long has this been? I've never experienced this, and not spoek with anyone esle who did. it's important we're clear about the conditions, if you're saying otherwise.

Wayne, first time I heard for Reiju is when I read a book Reiki Fire by Frank Arjava and it was way after I did reiki attunement. All I know it is said to be reiki attunement without symbols. So I assume that as long as Reiju is called attunement that RMT follows protocol (intention to attune, DKM etc) That is excatly how I was attuned and how I did attune others. So reiki one attunement, as I was thought has four attunements and no reiki symbol(s) is imprinted into students subconcious and put on hold and I never was though how to do it and it is first time that I read about it on this forum. So if somebody wants to share how this is done, it would be greatly appreciated. As to how long it was between the reiki 1 and reiki 2 attunements I would say at least 3 month . In between we would have reiki share but not reiki attunement until reiki 2.

If all it takes is a suggestion, for a direct link in our mind, then surely in distant initiaitons we don't even need to carry it out (since all it needs is student to beleive we have), and they'll be attuned. what ya think bout that? .

Sorry that you understood it that way. Here is what I said:

rzukic wrote:
When we open up and experience reiki for first time the new neurons-connection is established/fired up that will memorize/organize all experience related to this. The direct link is established between our mind and reiki so all it takes to experience reiki again is to have the intention (click that link and we are there instantly)

So as I pointed out they first need to have/make the experience that it will be linked to and than we can link.

Me too, i was on both ends. I feel the reason distance attunements works is cause i write HSZSN, it's why i write it.

You are right. As I said I do not have any doubt that it works just as I do not have any doubt that the sun will rise in the morning.

Have you used HSZSN in distance attunements?

Is there other way?

Look forward to it buddy, but are you sure you're not auto-suggesting yourself? How come you self-attuned, when you already attuned?

I carried out Chikara Reiki Do attunement and it is bit different. It has more symbols and all chakras are attuned.

rzukic wrote:

Why do you think he would then think it is so easy for all others to experience.

Because he made it so easy for all others to experience.

Yes, with his system. but if you're saying it's working cause of suggestion, then the system isn't needed at all. surely he whould have knew that. surely it wouldn't have took him years to experience what he did.

rzukic wrote:

If all it took was suggestion of any kind, and self-belief, there would surely be more systems like Reiki around the world. I mean, psychologists of one kind or another would be knocking out healing systems like mad surely.

Wayne, nobody is talking here about inventing new healing system but rather about how to integrate this one into daily life. It wasn't me who came up with reiki mental treatment but the fact that there is reiki mental treatment means that system founder thought it was important. Wanting to explore it isn't sin by all means.

Reiki mental work is of course a natural thing, when working with a human, doesn't indicate anything more than that. If you're saying self-belief & suggestion is what it's all about then psychologists use that all the time. it would be very easy to replicate, should they wish a patient displaying healing effects. I've not heard of this, or of anyone achieving this via such things. I havn't checked, but if you've got info on it, that's great, i'd like to see it, .

rzukic wrote:

This is cause if i draw the nazi swastika consciously i could be thinking of, say, CKR. sub-consciously i activate that.

Are you saying that IT IS important what we think subconsciously and that it will affect the outcome (even in this extreme case). It is interesting that you give this example for if we go by understanding that symbols have own power (which as you know I do not think so) than it is to assume that swastika would have some power as well but I am glad that you find that our subconscious thinking would be more powerful.

We can't choose to think sub-consciously in this way, hehe. it's the whole reason why i place symbols in another during initiation. I've another topic out bout this.

the swastika would only have power if it was empowered by some level 3 person, like i said. if they wrote it by accident, but meant CKR, their CKr within them would come into play, and give an effect. It's back to my other symbols in initiation topic. all my topics usually link together, hehe.

rzukic wrote:

Are you saying you initiated folks with no prior Reiki attunmenets at all, and in those initiations you never used any symbols, and these folks have had only the one Reiju and they still experience Reiki as strong as ever? If so, how long has this been? I've never experienced this, and not spoek with anyone esle who did. it's important we're clear about the conditions, if you're saying otherwise.

Wayne, first time I heard for Reiju is when I read a book Reiki Fire by Frank Arjava and it was way after I did reiki attunement. All I know it is said to be reiki attunement without symbols. So I assume that as long as Reiju is called attunement that RMT follows protocol (intention to attune, DKM etc) That is excatly how I was attuned and how I did attune others. So reiki one attunement, as I was thought has four attunements and no reiki symbol(s) is imprinted into students subconcious and put on hold and I never was though how to do it and it is first time that I read about it on this forum. So if somebody wants to share how this is done, it would be greatly appreciated. As to how long it was between the reiki 1 and reiki 2 attunements I would say at least 3 month . In between we would have reiki share but not reiki attunement until reiki 2.

ok, cool. You've said (intention to attune, DKM etc). So you used one symbol at least, DKM. You never drew or thought, or said any of the other symbols. In particular one (which i dont wanna mention myself).

Any you done actually 4 Reiju one after another? Over 1 day or so? And to be perfectly clear, these students were totally fresh to Reiki? This means also not initiated into any dererative of Reiki, new style, new name non-Reiki, etc. They weren't distance students? Cause i'd a distant level 1 before, but he weas actually a master in-person trained, but was compiling research on others training methods! distant students are often trying all manners of others training online.

i'm not suggesting you done anything wrong, course you didn't, i'm just clarifying Reiju and it's use with students.

Hey, i can send you some manuals later, in which Reiju is shown if ya want?

rzukic wrote:
Sorry that you understood it that way. Here is what I said:

rzukic wrote:

Milarepa wrote:
If all it takes is a suggestion, for a direct link in our mind, then surely in distant initiaitons we don't even need to carry it out (since all it needs is student to beleive we have), and they'll be attuned. what ya think bout that? Smile .

When we open up and experience reiki for first time the new neurons-connection is established/fired up that will memorize/organize all experience related to this. The direct link is established between our mind and reiki so all it takes to experience reiki again is to have the intention (click that link and we are there instantly)

So as I pointed out they first need to have/make the experience that it will be linked to and than we can link.

Yes, but what are you saying is allowing us to open up & experience for the first time? suggestion, self-beleif, hence my comment.

rzukic wrote:

Have you used HSZSN in distance attunements?

Is there other way?

Ok, but why have you used HSZSN? since it's used to enable us to do distant attunements, surely you only need to let the student think you done it properly, and the thing will work anyhow? they only need suggestion & self-beleif, and they'lll experience Reiki?

warmest wishes
Wayne

Wayne, something about your thoughts here !

Though this goes to the nature of spiritual empowerments in lineage. PArticularly level 3 folks. Once we recieve the spiritual blessing, we can still create responses even if i used a nazi swastika. This is cause if i draw the nazi swastika consciously i could be thinking of, say, CKR. sub-consciously i activate that. Now, if my own teacher somehow wrote the nazi swastika when she should have initiatied me into CKR, what happens is lineage comes into play. Cause she meant it to be CKR, an essence of what her own teachers CKR would have been passed down, so when my own teacher initiated me wrongly with a swastika she was still invoking an essence of CKR. This is what's meant in part by spiritual lineage. imo. it's why lineage is important. So, we can use whatever symbol we want, if we mean to write a ckr, we still activate inside either it, or essence. if we creaate a brand new symbol, then we've used our own spirituality, and part of all our lineage, by virtue of DKM, to do this. Cause we're Master level, we've been gave the spiritual permission.

and now a split-hair analysis, with your due permission

Once we recieve the spiritual blessing, we can still create responses even if i used a nazi swastika.

at the very outset, i raised eyebrows reading it tbh... but after some thought, i feel going with the vein in perfect agreement.. the spiritual blessing does not, for example, sits in CKR spiral, it sits in the intent of Usui Sensei... symbols happen to be carrier of that intent... or better saying, of that permission.... when we use symbols during initiations, we use symbols as carriers of his permission...

that probably accounts for the fact that no matter we use CKR in clockwise spiral, or anticlockwise spiral, it works the same...

if i draw the nazi swastika consciously i could be thinking of, say, CKR. sub-consciously i activate that.

for understanding, this is good.. but what if i say that when you consciously use nazi swastika, CKR is automatically activated, and not since you are 'sub-consciously' activating it... in a way, it is not 'activated automatically in air' and sure its activation has a nexus with you (or with your spirituality) but to view it as if would go activated in your sub-conscious, might be a thing we may have to think again... what if you say "it is spiriutally activated within me" ?

Now, if my own teacher somehow wrote the nazi swastika when she should have initiatied me into CKR, what happens is lineage comes into play.

this shows a beautiful understanding about the concepts of lineage... congrats.. you put it very right... agreed!

lineage no doubt holds a permission and mandate, but it also holds 'bonding' with something Usui Sensei handed over to us... if we use experimentation by adding things to our systems, we dont change system, rather we add our own system into the process while the original one will continue to do things as per original...

however, at the outwards, there will be a feeling that something has changed, since the cumulative outcome is often hard to be put to some dissective anatomy.

this probably goes in the same direction that you wrote

if we change the outward form of symbols while using them in iniitations, we still confer the same permission onwards to student, since DKM does it work and transfers the essence of CKR, no matter what was the outward form used by a master...

please tell if something i have used as an innundo coming from you, which infact you didnt intend??

take care

salman

Resko wrote:
So reiki one attunement, as I was thought has four attunements and no reiki symbol(s) is imprinted into students subconcious and put on hold and I never was though how to do it and it is first time that I read about it on this forum. So if somebody wants to share how this is done, it would be greatly appreciated.

(bold script is mine), that is interesting question Resko

sometimes back i came across an attunement method of Vincent Amador, that is presented to have been handed over through a student of Phylis leFurmoto (sick, i lost that material).. in that material, as far as my memory supports, it was suggested that for level one, there would be four movements like sweeping, scrubbing, (and two others which i dont remember exactly).. there was no mention of symbols anywhere for level one... the only mention of the symbol was DKM which the master would draw before starting the process, and he will draw it on himself, instead of 'drawing above the head of the student'


but, within Usui Shiki Royoho, we have variations.. we would put the symbols to the base of brain, and to the forehead, but will 'selectively' dont put them to the palms of the student... this might answer that how we (intend to ?) 'put on hold' symbols while still using them...

some would also say that a level one student is attuned to symbols but not with an ability of 'conscious use' of the symbols..... since it was not the intention of the master to grant him the ability of conscious use of symbols right away...


and what is then attunement to symbols such selectively ? my views are that level one student gets 'essence' of symbols, since this essence enables him to activate reiki ability...


even if we go the way i was talking about Vincent Amador method, although we dont use symbols, but what if we view that in a way that since Master himself is using all symbols within himself, it is well nigh impossible that he can (even if he wants to )control passing the 'essence' thereof to the student ?

just a thought Resko... i m trying to expand upon the possiblities on the ideas you've expressed... lets see, how good i go

take care

salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:

and now a split-hair analysis, with your due permission

Of course buddy. go over it with your usual fine-tooth comb! hehe, .

Lambs-Wool wrote:

Once we recieve the spiritual blessing, we can still create responses even if i used a nazi swastika.

at the very outset, i raised eyebrows reading it tbh... but after some thought, i feel going with the vein in perfect agreement.. the spiritual blessing does not, for example, sits in CKR spiral, it sits in the intent of Usui Sensei... symbols happen to be carrier of that intent... or better saying, of that permission.... when we use symbols during initiations, we use symbols as carriers of his permission...

yeah the spiritual blessing is two things really, but i was talking of one, the initiation. the other blessing is of course the principles, and by virtue of the initiations we experience Reiki, and this Reiki helps us more precisely integrate the principles. so it's a mutally beneficial marriage really.

but yeah. the spiritual blessing is what we recieve in level 1 & level 2. in level 3 we recieve it also, but we also recieve the spiritual permission, to pass it onto others. yeah, symbols are carrier of that intent, sure.

Lambs-Wool wrote:

if i draw the nazi swastika consciously i could be thinking of, say, CKR. sub-consciously i activate that.

for understanding, this is good.. but what if i say that when you consciously use nazi swastika, CKR is automatically activated, and not since you are 'sub-consciously' activating it... in a way, it is not 'activated automatically in air' and sure its activation has a nexus with you (or with your spirituality) but to view it as if would go activated in your sub-conscious, might be a thing we may have to think again... what if you say "it is spiriutally activated within me" ?

spiritually activated within me sounds good! I wanna point out another opinion thing i feel. that folks who say they don't need to write the symbols are telling the truth, then can leanr to activate them sub-consciously almost. So what's the use of ever writing them? if we can activate them sub-conscious, but also consciously we're using a more comprehensive whole of ourselves with said symbol. more focus, more mindfullness, more effect.

Lambs-Wool wrote:
lineage no doubt holds a permission and mandate, but it also holds 'bonding' with something Usui Sensei handed over to us... if we use experimentation by adding things to our systems, we dont change system, rather we add our own system into the process while the original one will continue to do things as per original...

however, at the outwards, there will be a feeling that something has changed, since the cumulative outcome is often hard to be put to some dissective anatomy.

this probably goes in the same direction that you wrote

if we change the outward form of symbols while using them in iniitations, we still confer the same permission onwards to student, since DKM does it work and transfers the essence of CKR, no matter what was the outward form used by a master...

please tell if something i have used as an innundo coming from you, which infact you didnt intend??

take care

salman

yeah that about sums up what i was saying, sure.

warmest wishes
Wayne